Unholy DPS | Back in Black [4.2.0] - Page 12

Basso · 06/23/11, 2:03 PM

I´ve changed the Stat Weight for Crit and Str a bit, just for the test.
If it change like you say it would be something like that:

Stat	Weight
Strength	2,96/3,6
Attackpower	0,75
Haste	0,86
Expertise	0,72
Mastery	0,82
Critical	0,66/0,3
Hit	1,08

-Name-	-Lvl-	-Passive Weight-	-Proc/Use Weight-	-Sum Weight-
Heart of Rage - Heroic	372	261,36	1568,16	1829,52
Vessel of Acceleration - Heroic	397	1648,80	130,50	1779,30
Apparatus of Khaz'goroth - Heroic	391	1558,80	185,44	1744,24
License to Slay -Normal	359	346,68	1368,00	1714,68
Crushing Weight - Heroic	372	1306,80	374,62	1681,42
Essence of the Eternal Flame - Heroic	391	355,06	1296,90	1651,96
Heart of Rage - Normal	359	231,12	1386,72	1617,84
Vessel of Acceleration -Normal	384	1461,60	115,50	1577,10
Apparatus of Khaz'goroth - Normal	378	1378,80	164,48	1543,28
Right Eye of Rajh - Heroic	346	307,80	1231,20	1539,00
Crushing Weight -Normal	359	1155,60	331,27	1486,87
Heart of Solace - Heroic	346	245,10	1231,20	1476,30
Essence of the Eternal Flame - Normal	378	314,06	1104,30	1418,36

Given that you can use nearly 100% or 60% of the hit, otherwise the Weight of the Trinkets License to Slay & Right Eye of Rajh would change.

And what Valimar says has a point too, with below 1% percent Crit we cant stack Titanic Power, that would change this Trinket Weight nearly to the middle of this Trinket List because the Passive Str, but the Use Effect is nearly useless then.

-highwind- · 06/23/11, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Basso

And what Valimar says has a point too, with below 1% percent Crit we cant stack Titanic Power, that would change this Trinket Weight nearly to the middle of this Trinket List because the Passive Str, but the Use Effect is nearly useless then.

I am not specced unholy atm but crit chance should be higher in raid environment.
Fury Warriors / Feral Druids provide raidwide 5% crit via talent, the agility part of HotW in combination with BoK / MotW offers some crit, enchants offer crit rating (shoulder, cloak, legs) and although crit rating is the weakest stat you naturally cannot avoid it on items completely (and with reforging you still have 60% left).
Even with 4.8% crit reduction on boss level mobs you probably still look at something between 6 and 9 percent of crit which -coupled with unholys relatively fast attack speed / strike usage- should be sufficent to keep the buff up... atleast on fights where you spent most of the time on the mob that is.

Please also check the OP of this thread again. It has been updated to 4.2 yesterday (including best in slot lists).

ryuplaneswalker · 06/24/11, 12:50 AM

In regards to our crit rating inside of raids, while I am not in BIS gear I have about 10%ish with 25 man buffs, and since we reforge away crit for Haste/Mastery so I doubt that it will go up that much in BIS and Firelands level gear, the trinkets could be good if our 2set were a crit boost to festering or scourge strike but I would imagine the hit/exp from License and Heart would be overall better.

Tsuyah · 06/28/11, 10:07 AM

When you are considering the stat weights for trinkets with stats that can be capped (hit w/ License to Slay or expertise with the Heart of Rage), the stat weight for the trinket should be considered with it being reforged to the highest stat that can NOT be capped. The reason being is there is going to be more ideal stats to reforge into hit or exp even if you need it from all your other gear, rather than leaving the hit alone on the trinket.

For instance, you can reforge the License to haste, and then reforge the T11 BP + Glittering Epidermis away from their crit into hit, giving you a higher overall haste and the same hit. Just one example, but really the only case you SHOULDN'T be considering stat weights as such is if you can't reach the hit cap without. But let's be honest, in T12 that isn't going to be the case.

-highwind- · 06/28/11, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Tsuyah

When you are considering the stat weights for trinkets with stats that can be capped (hit w/ License to Slay or expertise with the Heart of Rage), the stat weight for the trinket should be considered with it being reforged to the highest stat that can NOT be capped. The reason being is there is going to be more ideal stats to reforge into hit or exp even if you need it from all your other gear, rather than leaving the hit alone on the trinket.

For instance, you can reforge the License to haste, and then reforge the T11 BP + Glittering Epidermis away from their crit into hit, giving you a higher overall haste and the same hit. Just one example, but really the only case you SHOULDN'T be considering stat weights as such is if you can't reach the hit cap without. But let's be honest, in T12 that isn't going to be the case.

A good point and something that is also often done wrong when calculating ep values for racials and gemming for socket bonusses.

A Draenei for example does not effectively have the EP value of 1% more hit because that would assume that all other races would not cap hit (which they obviously do).
The effective EP a Draenei would get is (rating needed for 1% hit at the given level) x (EP value of the best non-capable stat) and even that is only true in the optimal case that every point of this rating really CAN be reforgend to haste (which is sometimes not possible because applicable items might already have haste)

Glimpse · 06/30/11, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Basso

I´ve changed the Stat Weight for Crit and Str a bit, just for the test.
If it change like you say it would be something like that:

Stat	Weight
Strength	2,96/3,6
Attackpower	0,75
Haste	0,86
Expertise	0,72
Mastery	0,82
Critical	0,66/0,3
Hit	1,08

If this stat weight is accurate [Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed] would become the BiS cloak enchant.

-highwind- · 06/30/11, 1:59 PM

The pre-hardmode best in slot list has two hardmode trinkets.
Although these are T11 hardmode items I find it very unlikely that people who do not have access to T12 hardmodes will have access to T11 hardmodes. On a more "formal" argumentation pre-hardmode means pre-hardmode and that includes hardmodes from previous tiers, too.

Originally Posted by Glimpse

If this stat weight is accurate [Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Greater Speed] would become the BiS cloak enchant.

It probably isnt.
The strength value was my wild guess / napkin math based on the unholy might changes and I dont know where the lowered value of crit comes from (crit shouldnt gain or loose much in relation to before as there were no crit-relevant changes)

Raa · 07/01/11, 12:01 PM

Mr. Robot just updated their DB and with the change to Reil of Khaz they have it as BiS (pre-heroic) with Vessel. Anybody can confirm or deny this? I don't want to get it then equip it when I could sell it or pass to a guildie if it's not BiS.

Thanks in advance.

Kaejin · 07/01/11, 12:17 PM

As long as it procs stacks on crits it will not be a viable trinket for unholy.

slant · 07/01/11, 12:22 PM

Mr. Robot is wrong. Unholy has a very low base crit rate, no crit talents, and reforges away from crit on gear. The spec has a fair bit of difficulty even ramping up the Apparatus of Khaz'goroth at all on bosses with the inherent 4.8% crit suppression; the buff can actually drop off. The AoK is a terrible trinket for unholy. It is quite strong for DW frost, as the spec has an extremely high critrate.

Raa · 07/01/11, 12:23 PM

that was my thinking, thanks.

Shigo · 07/01/11, 4:45 PM

Just a heads up, the tool tip on [Apparatus of Khaz'goroth] is incorrect. Its 508 per proc making it 2540 instead of the 1530 first assumed. I am not good with stat weights but would that 1030 extra make it more valuable for us?

Vlad Antlerkov · 07/01/11, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by Shigo

Just a heads up, the tool tip on [Apparatus of Khaz'goroth] is incorrect. Its 508 per proc making it 2540 instead of the 1530 first assumed. I am not good with stat weights but would that 1030 extra make it more valuable for us?

Due to (a) Unholy's low crit rate and (b) the trinket stack only proccing off crits, resulting in stacks often falling off, Apparatus of Khazgoroth is not and never will be viable for Unholy.

Shigo · 07/02/11, 12:50 AM

Stat	Weight
Strength	2,96/3,6
Attackpower	0,75
Haste	0,86
Expertise	0,72
Mastery	0,82
Critical	0,66/0,3
Hit	1,08

-Name-	-Lvl-	-Passive Weight-	-Proc/Use Weight-	-Sum Weight-
[Apparatus of Khaz'goroth] - Heroic	391	1558,80	401.33	1960.13
[Heart of Rage] - Heroic	372	261,36	1568,16	1829,52
[Vessel of Acceleration]- Heroic	397	1648,80	130,50	1779,30
[Apparatus of Khaz'goroth] - Normal	378	1378,80	364.1	1742.9
[License to Slay]-Normal	359	346,68	1368,00	1714,68
[Crushing Weight]- Heroic	372	1306,80	374,62	1681,42
[Essence of the Eternal Flame] - Heroic	391	355,06	1296,90	1651,96
[Heart of Rage] - Normal	359	231,12	1386,72	1617,84
[Vessel of Acceleration] -Normal	384	1461,60	115,50	1577,10
[Right Eye of Rajh]- Heroic	346	307,80	1231,20	1539,00
[Crushing Weight] -Normal	359	1155,60	331,27	1486,87
[Heart of Solace]- Heroic	346	245,10	1231,20	1476,30
[Essence of the Eternal Flame] - Normal	378	314,06	1104,30	1418,36

With the new proc on[Apparatus of Khaz'goroth] being 508 instead of 306 which gave me 2540. And for the heroic version I used 560 for the proc making it 2800. I don't know the heroic version proc yet because both tooltips are wrong.

Using

Proc-variety Trinket Value	=	(Passive Stat x Passive Stat Weight) + ((Proc stat x Proc Stat Weight) / 5)
Use-variety Trinket Value	=	(Passive Stat x Passive Stat Weight) + ((Use stat x Use Stat Weight) / 6)

Krout · 07/02/11, 10:51 AM

On what basis are you changing the stat weight of crit?