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Old 05/04/11, 5:35 PM   #106
Machaera
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Korgath
Sorry, I should have been a bit better about my proof.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Here's my AMZ from 4.0.6 absorbing lava spew on only my party members, despite the tank and 1 healer being in the zone as well. Note that the buff was only applied to my party members in the zone as well.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Here's vodka's DK Arrius last night using AMZ to absorb Backdraft. Note that not only did the buff apply to almost every raid member unlike mine pre-patch, but the absorb applied as well. For comparison, look at the damage Okcomputer (who was standing out of the zone) took.

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Old 05/04/11, 7:50 PM   #107
Taiyoken
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Mannoroth
Pre 4.1 I would use AMZ on Heroic Chimaeron, and it'd take the bolt for 7/9 people getting hit. Looking back, I realized that Chimaeron doesn't shoot 1 bolt, but 2 and that's why it seems that not everyone gets the damage reduction at the same time but they do for one bolt, and the second bolt kind of hits half the raid or something, not too sure. But yeah it's been in for a while and why a 4/1/36 spec is the best raid spec despite having a bit less dps talents.

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Old 05/05/11, 3:18 AM   #108
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
T12 (PTR) set bonuses are up at Patch 4.2 PTR: Tier 12 set bonuses

For Unholy, the ones to note of course are:
* 2-Piece - Your Horn of Winter ability also grants you 3 runic power every 5 sec for 2 min.
* 4-Piece - Your critical strikes with melee abilities deal 15% additional damage as Fire damage over 4 sec.


The 2 piece seems a little underwhelming. It's 72 runic power over 2 minutes, or a little over 2 Death Coils.

The 4 piece essentially adds higher value to crit. A possible issue with this is Scourge Strike's Shadow portion isn't considered a crit so we'll have to see how the bonus behaves to get numbers on it.

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Old 05/05/11, 4:38 AM   #109
rh8452
Piston Honda
 
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Worgen Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
From my preliminary napkin math, both bonuses are ridiculously awful for Unholy, to the point where players would be choosing to wear offpieces with more optimal stats or higher strength over the tier. The 2pc is slightly better for unholy than for frost due to it giving slightly higher DT uptime, but is still clocking in around 1% dps. As crit is the least valuable stat for unholy, players will be unlikely to take pieces with crit and would be reforging out of it unless there's changes made to the way the spec works, so the 4pc will be under a 2% dps increase as it stands.

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Old 05/05/11, 5:46 AM   #110
Basso
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Frostmourne (EU)
What about the 2P Tank Set ?
I dont know it and i dont calculate it either but if this debuff counts like 2 diseases and we add two more with outbreak, will it count like 4 diseases?
When it counts like 4 diseases, i think two tank parts and in other slots simply the BiS whatever it is set or not would be optimal.

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Old 05/05/11, 6:03 AM   #111
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Basso View Post
What about the 2P Tank Set ?
I dont know it and i dont calculate it either but if this debuff counts like 2 diseases and we add two more with outbreak, will it count like 4 diseases?
When it counts like 4 diseases, i think two tank parts and in other slots simply the BiS whatever it is set or not would be optimal.
There's no way Blizzard would have the 2pc tank count for two extra diseases. Even having Obliterate/Scourge Strike act like they had an extra disease would be pushing it for a 4pc DPS let alone a 2pc.

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Old 05/05/11, 9:21 AM   #112
Vistana
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Charybdis View Post
There's no way Blizzard would have the 2pc tank count for two extra diseases. Even having Obliterate/Scourge Strike act like they had an extra disease would be pushing it for a 4pc DPS let alone a 2pc.
My guild was discussing this, and we just placed bets that it would mean that you wouldn't have to apply diseases at all on single target. Note it doesn't say "two extra", it just says it would act as if there "were two diseases present". Considering how much disease uptime isn't really a problem for Unholy currently (I mean, I refresh it for Ebon Plaguebringer) and how the Blood 2pc doesn't actually apply diseases (meaning no damage), I'm seeing this as a fairly pathetic bonus for DPS. We'd want our diseases on the target for the extra damage anyway, even if it is only minor in comparison.

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Old 05/06/11, 12:24 AM   #113
Omedus
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by Basso View Post
What about the 2P Tank Set ?
I dont know it and i dont calculate it either but if this debuff counts like 2 diseases and we add two more with outbreak, will it count like 4 diseases?
When it counts like 4 diseases, i think two tank parts and in other slots simply the BiS whatever it is set or not would be optimal.
I doubt that it just adds an extra 2 diseases. It's pretty clear it makes your attacks dmg base off of having both diseases up. Which is decent for tanks I suppose. However, from a dps perspective you would have to consider the fact that you're losing the actual dps the diseases would be doing, which is a fair amount. The tank tier is definitely suboptimal for a Dps Death Knight.

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Old 05/06/11, 11:11 AM   #114
Daerth
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Charybdis View Post
The 2 piece seems a little underwhelming. It's 72 runic power over 2 minutes, or a little over 2 Death Coils.

The 4 piece essentially adds higher value to crit. A possible issue with this is Scourge Strike's Shadow portion isn't considered a crit so we'll have to see how the bonus behaves to get numbers on it.

When I saw both of those set bonuses I really facepalmed, as you guys mentioned before the 2pc is ok'ish even though still crappy but the 4pc bonus I thought was a bit of a joke considering UH. Not only do we get very few crits (~20% is the usual for me iirc) but like you pointed out, the shadow portion of SS isn't capable of crits which further diminishes the value of the set bonus (not to mention it says "From melee hits" - this counts out DC and diseases crits?) .

In comparison, not only does frost value crit slightly higher but just the sheer amount of OB/FS crits frost gets from Killing Machine (as well as just more "physical/melee" damage) makes it potentially ridiculously good for them.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to any revamps on this for UH

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Old 05/08/11, 8:28 PM   #115
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Omedus View Post
The tank tier is definitely suboptimal for a Dps Death Knight.
This is definitely incorrect.

Forget the disease aspect of tank 2P T12. That part is undoubtedly worthless, for any number of reasons. Simply look at the dot aspect - it's 400 dps with, what the wording seems to hint at, a 100% proc chance. That is nothing to scoff at and it's unquestionably stronger than dps 4P T12 (which is plain horrible - our crittable damage is small enough to begin with, but then the phrasing of the bonus explicitly excludes Death Coil and disease crits, leaving only the physical portion of SS and FeS benefiting).

Say we're doing something like 30k dps average (a ~20-30% boost over our present output) in t12 which, barring any changes and merely accounting for the improvements in gear, is probably a pretty accurate overlook (if anything that's slightly optimistic, but any overestimation in our average dps means that reality would then favor tank 2P even more than dps 4P, since the latter scales with our personal dps while the former does not). That means tank 2P is worth 1.33% dps. The physical SS and FeS account for about ~17.5% of our overall dps (25% of our personal dps, if you're looking at a parse, but that's merely 25% of the ~70% coming from us and not our pets), so for dps 4P to overtake tank 2P, we would need for about half of that 17.5% damage to come have been from crits, which would require a 33% crit rate - something we don't have nor will we have in the next tier even in full best in slot.

Of course, yes, we will have to take a slight dps hit from the less optimal secondary stats of two tank pieces instead of two dps pieces, but between reforging and the near-certainty that there will be at least two tank pieces with either hit, mastery, or expertise as one (or perhaps both) of their secondary stats, it should be a very minor hit so long as the strength is equal (as it historically has been), and considering our crit rate with SS/FeS come nowhere near the 33% break-even point, I feel very safe in saying that, based off what we currently know, dps 2P T12 + tank 2P T12 will easily best dps 4P T12 for Unholy.

All of that isn't even to mention that fact that tank 2P T12 can scale in AoE situations (simply by the player tab-autoattacking), whereas dps 4P T12 does not and can not.

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Old 05/08/11, 9:08 PM   #116
ryuplaneswalker
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Wyrmrest Accord
Wouldn't the disease part of burning blood actually be bad for Unholy though, since it is causing one of our main damage sources to act as if there were only two diseases instead of the three we normally get?

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Old 05/08/11, 9:25 PM   #117
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
If it actually overrides the number of diseases we have, of course. If it simply means "as if you had two" if you have less than two, then it's a nonfactor. No way of knowing which it works at the moment, although the former would be a rather odd implementation (and would have no other effect then to make it undesirable for Unholy - which may normally seem understandable, but in light of Unholy's current impotence and the fact that dps 4P T12 would still be horrible for the spec, I don't see why they would go out of their way to kill the possibility).

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Old 05/10/11, 8:42 PM   #118
thelordymir
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Anyone else noticing a bug on Magmaw wherein if you jump up to do chains your pet completely despawns on you every time?

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Old 05/10/11, 11:55 PM   #119
Omedus
Glass Joe
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Thrall
Unholy

Unholy Might now increases Strength by 10%, up from 5%.
Along with the slight nerfs to frost, this may push Unholy back to the top of Death Knight Dpsing. Thoughts?

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Old 05/11/11, 1:45 AM   #120
Basso
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Frostmourne (EU)
Originally Posted by Omedus View Post
Along with the slight nerfs to frost, this may push Unholy back to the top of Death Knight Dpsing. Thoughts?
At 5000 Str its 250 Str more so 500 Attackpower, i know our Pets scale with Str too but i dont think it will rise our dps to the level of frost even with the frost being nerved.

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