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Old 06/20/11, 11:10 AM   #301
xanthic42
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by Arctic_Fox View Post
correct me if i'm mistaken but can you not upgrade an obsidium cleaver with a crystallized firestone?
MMO-Champion - Patch 4.2 Heroic Items Upgrade, Murkablo Video, Firelands Ragnaros Kill Video

It's listed as blackcleave chopper there but the tooltip is obsidium cleaver.

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Old 06/21/11, 5:00 PM   #302
xacid
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Bladefist
the 2h from rag will always be higher ilvl reg and heroic. Normal ilvl for rest of firelands is 378 and heroic is 391 where all of rag 384 and 397 drops are.

and yes you can upgrade the trash drop 1h'er to heroic via the firestone.

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Old 06/21/11, 6:25 PM   #303
bludfrost
Glass Joe
 
bludfrost's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Stormreaver
Based on what has been found on the PTR, and depending on whether or not Blizzard goes through with heroic upgrades of Avengers of Hyjal reputation items, this should be what the no-restrictions BiS list looks like for 2H frost in 4.2. I came up with this a while ago, so let me know if anything seems off. Also, note that EJ doesn't allow linking of PTR items on wowhead, and tooltips will either be not found, or incorrect. Clicking the link will take you to the wowhead page with the correct stats.
Color Key
Reforged out of
Reforged into
Gemmed for
Only passive stats are included, primarily to calculate caps for hit and expertise.
SlotNameGem 1Gem 2ReforgingStrengthHitExpertiseHasteMasteryCrit
HeadElementium Deathplate HelmetReverberating SSDBold Inferno RubyHit to Mastery400 (+124)1440311950
NeckNecklace of FetishesNoneNoneCrit to Haste2561420750113
ShouldersElementium Deathplate PauldronsBold Inferno RubyNoneMastery to Expertise322 (+40)0762381150
BackBladed Flamewrath CoverNoneNoneNone256013019500
ChestBreastplate of Shifting VisionsBold Inferno RubyEtched DemonseyeMastery to Hit420 (+80)120 (+20)02661810
WristsGigantiform BracersNoneNoneHit to Haste256780521950
HandsElementium Deathplate GauntletsBold Inferno RubyNoneHit to Haste322 (+50)1440951910
WaistCinch of the Flaming EmberBold Inferno RubyBold Inferno RubyHit to Haste322 (+80)920610260
LegsElementium Deathplate GreavesBold Inferno RubyEtched DemonseyeExpertise to Mastery420 (+80)(+20)1942361280
FeetArachnaflame TreadsBold Inferno RubyNoneCrit to Hit322 (+50)9102080137
Ring 1Alysrazor's BandBold Inferno RubyNoneNone256 (+50)017112400
Ring 2Obsidian Signet of the AvengersBold Inferno RubyNoneCrit to Haste236 (+50)1100780117
Trinket 1Heart of RageNoneNoneExpertise to Haste0021814500
Trinket 2Vessel of AccelerationNoneNoneNone45800000
WeaponSulfuras, the Extinguished HandBold Inferno RubyBold Inferno RubyCrit to Haste446 (+100)00133262200
RelicRelic of the Elemental LordsBold Inferno RubyNoneCrit to Mastery145 (+40)00983757
     558196178923151204884

Last edited by bludfrost : 06/22/11 at 4:07 AM. Reason: Trinket Change

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Old 06/21/11, 7:45 PM   #304
xbit
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by bludfrost View Post
Based on what has been found on the PTR, and depending on whether or not Blizzard goes through with heroic upgrades of Avengers of Hyjal reputation items, this should be what the no-restrictions BiS list looks like for 2H frost in 4.2
Heroic heart of rage is better than heroic Apparatus of Khaz'Goroth.

Apparatus:
345*5*(15/120) = 216 haste
433 str

Heart of Rage:
145 haste (reforged)
2178/(90/20) = 484 str

Heart of rage gains 51 str and loses 71 haste, well worth it. Otherwise your list is pretty similar to mine, though I opted for the earthcrack bracers instead.

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Old 06/22/11, 2:53 AM   #305
Tyhma
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Death Knight
 
Confrerie du Thorium (EU)
Assuming you're considering that heroic version of Hyjal's items should exits, an essence heroix version would also be better that the apparatus heroic, as soon as you take into account the many strengh modifier that we benefit, in particular PoF witch would allow a permanent +20% of the strengh-use's value.

Any statsweight application should take these strengh modifier into account to be accurate, imo. Am i right?

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Old 06/25/11, 6:07 PM   #306
Baphomette
Von Kaiser
 
Baphomette's Avatar
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Feathermoon
Originally Posted by xbit View Post
Apparatus:
345*5*(15/120) = 216 haste
433 str

Heart of Rage:
145 haste (reforged)
2178/(90/20) = 484 str

Heart of rage gains 51 str and loses 71 haste, well worth it. Otherwise your list is pretty similar to mine, though I opted for the earthcrack bracers instead.
Has it not been the case since Cata that proc trinkets have 1/5 uptime (and use trinkets 1/6)? That would put the ICD at 100s and the average Strength at 435.6. Even if it is a 90s ICD, I find this trinket in particular incredibly finicky. A 10% proc chance seems reasonable, but it's possible (and all too frequent) that it doesn't go off at all in the first 20s of a fight.

I guess my point is that I would not value HoR's Strength at its theoretical maximum, though I don't know how to model how much lower it really is.

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Old 06/25/11, 10:24 PM   #307
xbit
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Baphomette View Post
I guess my point is that I would not value HoR's Strength at its theoretical maximum, though I don't know how to model how much lower it really is.
This is true, and I have experienced what you're talking about with a poor chance to proc. However, heart of rage has the advantage of granting more passive haste which is arguably more useful than on-use haste for a frost DK, though the same argument could be made for passive strength. 2148 str is pretty useless if it procs during a particularly bad lapse of RNG, but the ICD does tend to line up somewhat with every other PoF, and the ghoul. 145 haste from direct reforging, and additional potential haste from the remaining expertise allowing more haste to be reforged on other gear where expertise otherwise would have been needed. The mathematical breakpoint for heart of rage being worse than apparatus is around a 94 second ICD which, given its sometimes poor proc rate, could very well be exceeded. Frost in general is very RNG heavy, so just as you can't really plan around having awesome RNG, you shouldn't necessarily plan around terrible RNG either. I try to maximize average output, since that's about all I can really control.

Last edited by xbit : 06/25/11 at 10:29 PM.

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Old 06/25/11, 11:14 PM   #308
Hamhammer
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Crushridge
You have a roughly 3.8% of not proccing Heart of Rage as 2H and a 0.7% chance of not proccing it as DW in the first 20 seconds of uptime on a boss.

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Old 06/25/11, 11:52 PM   #309
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
Kaejin's Avatar
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by jimleko211@gmail.com View Post
The 5% beast damage buff will only be applicable on some trash pulls, and on Beth'tilac. The berserking is a good buff, to be sure, but a burst of haste, compared to the extra 1% all the time that goblins get? A matter for debate, I suppose, but I don't personally think it wins.
Not exactly.

Beth'tilac and her adds are beasts.
Shannox's adds are beasts.
Staghelm's spends the majority of the encounter shape shifted.

Also Rhyolith is erroneously labeled as beast on WoWHead, but needless to say he's not. That probably had something to do with deandrez's conclusion. Regardless, Beast Slaying will be great for anyone who's already a Troll, but I don't think anyone is going to be race changing over it.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 06/26/11, 6:10 PM   #310
naliel
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
Not exactly.

Beth'tilac and her adds are beasts.
Shannox's adds are beasts.
Staghelm's spends the majority of the encounter shape shifted.

Also Rhyolith is erroneously labeled as beast on WoWHead, but needless to say he's not. That probably had something to do with deandrez's conclusion. Regardless, Beast Slaying will be great for anyone who's already a Troll, but I don't think anyone is going to be race changing over it.
In the latest ptr build Beth'tilac got changed from beast to spider. I won't be surprised if they also changed the other encounters you mentioned.

Last edited by naliel : 06/29/11 at 6:10 AM.

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Old 06/26/11, 11:51 PM   #311
Taiyoken
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Druid
 
Mannoroth
Majordomo is a humanoid. Even if he was shapeshifted it wouldn't matter because it's the same reason why Druids don't take extra damage in PvP.

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Old 06/27/11, 1:31 AM   #312
Gicks
Glass Joe
 
Gicks's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by naliel View Post
In the latest ptr build Beth'tilac got changed from beast to spider. I won't be surprised if they also changed the other encounters you mentioned.
Good post had no idea the adds on Beth'tilac got changed. Thanks.

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Old 06/27/11, 6:55 AM   #313
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by naliel View Post
In the latest ptr build Beth'tilac got changed from beast to spider. I won't be surprised if they also changed the other encounters you mentioned.
I wasn't even aware that was a mob type considering every other spider in the game is a beast. Not sure why they wouldn't just change her to an elemental or something.

Originally Posted by Taiyoken View Post
Majordomo is a humanoid. Even if he was shapeshifted it wouldn't matter because it's the same reason why Druids don't take extra damage in PvP.
That are vulnerable to Scare Beast and Hibernate and show up via Beast Tracking. They're still beasts, if the racial doesn't work it's some sort of recent arena related shenanigan because it definitely used to work. Unless you're saying his shapeshift forms are humanoid and not beast, I'm inclined to believe the racial would work, same as it has on beast mobs in the past. I tried looking at some Majordomo videos and couldn't find any that had a tooltip of him during a shapeshift.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 06/27/11, 7:48 PM   #314
Nahela
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Bloodscalp
Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
I wasn't even aware that was a mob type considering every other spider in the game is a beast. Not sure why they wouldn't just change her to an elemental or something.
I believe they're able to write just about anything in for a mob-type these days and anything that doesn't fall into one of the standard 'families' simply gets the same classification as 'Unknown' (tagless).

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Old 06/27/11, 10:42 PM   #315
Titus Pullo
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Stormreaver
Stat Weights, BiS and trinkets have been updated for 4.2. Hopefully, all those items will be found tomorrow...

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