I'm finding that in some instances of using Army of the Dead, it seems to break the Blood of the North passive and turn the Death Runes back into Blood Runes with apparently no way to turn them back without respeccing back and forth.
This also happens when /reload ui'ing sometimes. A spec back and forth or a logout and back in is the way to go. I submitted a ticket - awaiting response.
This also happens when /reload ui'ing sometimes. A spec back and forth or a logout and back in is the way to go. I submitted a ticket - awaiting response.
I talked with a GM about this issue. He stated that the Dev team is aware of the issue and is close to a solution. Take that for what it's worth.
I got a weird bug today mid raid where all my runes magically reset to full bars. I looked at ERW, and it was still up. I could use the runes like normal (they did not regenerate via Frost Strikes when I wasn't looking, that's for sure). It happens once on V&T. Our WoL reports bugged out and got cleared, so I can't even look in the logs.
Target dummy tests (no, not very accurate I know) last night have led me to wonder as to if our current priority system is still accurate. I am running a 2h frost build and had a benchmark of at least 10 million damage done for my tests, with cooldowns ignored (since they would affect either test equally) and performed on the boss dummy in Acherus to eliminate aoe damage.
What I was testing was if I should use those two death runes for an extra obliterate or for a pair of howling blasts. My results, once recount was working again, were that my dps was higher (by about 500) if I ignored blood plague (except for Outbreak) and only used Obliterate if I had an unholy rune free, otherwise frost/death runes would be used for Howling Blast, even if it meant using KM for frost strike.
Now I ask, aside from using the dummy, is there anything that I might be missing with this test? Also, would raid buffs push the Obliterate priority back up, likely due to sunder? Or would it remain similar due to the +Spell Dmg debuff?
Tried the rotation you mentioned and these are the results from the fights where I used it.
Seems to work pretty well IMO. To the point where I sometimes couldn't see a clear difference in DPS compared to the regular rotation (which would mean more flexibility).
It's better on Chimaeron due to standing in front of him during feud and not relying on that many obliterates (parry).
Maloriak is an aoe fight, sure, but still worked extremely well during single target. Again, during red phase you attack the boss from the front which means HB is better than OB.
On one of our Chimaeron wipes I was even topping the meters down to ~30% (above our crazy troll hunters that usually destroy the meters).
It's weird how big numbers on HB I saw yesterday though. Got regular crits of 60k+ easily on single target.
Most of the talk about IBT in the last page has basically rediscussed the reasons 4/31/6 gained popularity after the Virulence change in the first place. IBT may sim better and math out better on paper, but in practice it tends to be difficult to utilize to optimum effect due to various conditions.
This. Especially with the 2H build I rarely find myself having space to use BT the moment it comes off CD due to the spec having very little free globals at my haste levels in my personal experience. Epidemic also gains value on fights including target switching and/or tab PSing like twin dragons and Maloriak for example. Epidemic is also only marginally less DPS than IBT on single target in a perfect world. That said I'm against it being listed as mandatory, and would like to see it listed as optional along with Epidemic.
Yesterday while raiding I grew quite skeptical about DW outperforming 2H. My guildie (Ponppa) was DW Frost while I was 2H because I lack 1H weapons, and Ponppa was constantly complaining about having nothing to hit while DPSing as DW, while I found myself being almost GCD locked. The effects were also seen while comparing our DPS, since while running with just about the same level of gear (nearly BiS) and skill, the results were *click*...
After the raid we looked at the logs to see the differences;
2H:
159 FS's (62 crits 1 Do 1 Pa), 110 OB's (40 crits 1 Pa), 57 HB's (4 crits).
Avg FS hit 17420.3 crit 34869.6, OB hit 24505.7 crit 48643.3, HB hit 18268.0 crit 36848.5.
MotFW generated 1030 RP.
Rime x59, KM x77, FC uptime 94.6%.
28668.4 DPS
DW:
116 MH FS's (33 crits 1 Pa which means 1 more OH hit), 101 MH OB's (35 crits), 35 HB's (6 crits).
Avg FS hit 18584.7 crit 40397.3, OB hit 24726 crit 50189, HB hit 20326.0 crit 38940.5.
DW did 108257 more melee damage.
Rime x37, KM x64, FC uptime 76.2%.
24478.8 DPS
Sure, the RNG gods might have favored me here, but the difference is quite large nonetheless. Need to make some other parses to confirm, since because of patch day lag, bugs, disconnects and so on this was the only comparable log we produced.
Yesterday while raiding I grew quite skeptical about DW outperforming 2H.
Simcraft and Testdummy reported me quite good DPS numbers for the DW-build while using the U-Presence.
This was contrary to my experience in dungeons and the raid yesterday.
It seems as if DW suffers badly while moving around and there is a state of "rune starved" below a haste rating of ~ 2200, depending on latency and personal skill. 2H Frost feels much more stable and constant below this haste rating.
I think the following stat weight will produce better results in a "life/real enviroment" than calculated by simulations till reaching a certain ilvl of ~372 and haste value of ~2200; statw.: crit > mastery > haste.
Reason for this conclusion:
Crit and Mastery are not effected by any idle time which is not properly refelcted with simulations.
Haste value weight is reduced by a hughe margin the less % "Mob uptime" a character has.
Simcraft and Dumym reported me quite good DPS numbers for the DW build while using the U-Presence.
This was contrary to my experience in dungeons and the raid yesterday.
It seems as if dw suffers badly while moving around and there is a state of "rune starved" below a haste rating of ~ 2200, depending on latency and personal skill. Furthermore dw suffers a lot from moving around and much more than 2hand.
2H Frost feels much more stable and constant below this haste rating.
I wonder if the following stat wight might produce better results in a "life/real enviroment" than calculated by simulations till reaching a certain ilvl of ~372 and haste value of ~2200; statw.: crit > mastery > haste.
Reason for this conclusion:
Crit and Mastery are not effected by any idle time which is not properly refelcted with simulations.
Haste value weight is reduced by a hughe margin the less % "Mob uptime" a character has.
i understand what your saying about hastes reduced value in real life, and can see that it could easily be correct. but why have you also changed crit/mastery's relative weights? even if we were to say haste is bottom choice due to the reasons you mentioned, i see no reason to not stack mastery followed by crit. especially if what was said above about howling blast spam over OB on certain bosses is correct, and taking into account crits value being diminished by KM procs
It looks as if Mastery and Crit are very close in most fights with Mastery in the lead upon certain conditions like aoe fights.
KM and crit do not get along each other very well but we lost "blood strike". Instead we do use more frost strikes and obliterates with the same amount of KM-procs as before the patch. This changes the obliterate and frost strike KMratio because we do have way more of both "special strikes" which are not affected by a KM proc.
Before Patch:
Crit Chance of Obliterate ~ 29% (including KM)
After Patch:
Crit Chance of Obliterate ~ 24% (including KM)
Both numbers can vary on your Performance, Skill and Crit Value.
Still, you might be correct and i should state it as Mastery >= Crit.
I need a lot of testing to get more accurate numbers. My point was haste & UP presence is not performing as good as simulated in life conditions and i do try to find the optimal "lifeserver biggest DPS spec" for dw frost instead of a "simulation biggest DPS" spec
Adding a thing that came to mind on IBT vs. Epidemic; there is a higher chance on having a situation where a Rime hasn't procced before your FF is falling off the target without Epidemic, forcing you to use a rune on HB unless Outbreak is available.
Tested dw and 2h and after that I clearly can say 2h Frost is way better. The other thing is, is got so many free gcds in dw and 2h.. anyone else got that problem?
Tested dw and 2h and after that I clearly can say 2h Frost is way better. The other thing is, is got so many free gcds in dw and 2h.. anyone else got that problem?
Absolutely. I don't have any viable logs as of yet due to various bugs and so forth, but I have gone to FP dw'ing still stacking haste, and although I am GCD capped during hero/lust the spec works much better, flows nicely and actually does a bit more damage then UP in high movement situations. Hopefully I can get a decent parse tonight for analysis.
This is not enough information to work with but all I have right now. I had to suicide a blackout at the end, and was not my best effort by far, but some information for dw'ing in FP stacking haste none the less.
Tested dw and 2h and after that I clearly can say 2h Frost is way better. The other thing is, is got so many free gcds in dw and 2h.. anyone else got that problem?
If this is true which it seems to be according to a few people, wouldn't it more viable to have DW go FP to counter act the free gcds and hit harder.
P.S. Of course switch back to UP when lust is up
It seems as if DW suffers badly while moving around and there is a state of "rune starved" below a haste rating of ~ 2200, depending on latency and personal skill. 2H Frost feels much more stable and constant below this haste rating.
is there a haste number which you start to use UP vs FP (or the other way around).
Target dummy testing is not an accurate way to gauge how something will work in a raid environment. Please include a World of Logs (or something similar) parse when making claims about dps. Going forward, posts using only target dummy data as support will be infracted.
My guildie (Ponppa) was DW Frost while I was 2H because I lack 1H weapons, and Ponppa was constantly complaining about having nothing to hit while DPSing as DW, while I found myself being almost GCD locked.
I am definitely getting less down time than DW Frost. Also, in your logs, you got a lot more KM procs and used them much faster than Pnoppa - the same is true of Rime procs. This may be due to RNG, having a 2h instead of DW, or just having better reaction timing. It's hard to tell.
Looking through the logs, I think that you just outperformed Pnoppa - not to say he's not good, he definitely is.
The thing is, when you're flooded with RP and have that many FS's more in total, it's just natural that you have more opportunities to use your KM procs faster and not overwriting the proc. I think most of the time Ponppa was forced to sit with his KM having no resources to use. I also had 9 more OB's which may explain about the Rime's. The FC uptime difference is really big as well, I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I'm thinking it's because of 2H using way more abilities (43 FS's and 9 OB's on that parse).
Just adding my own support to the idea that the IBT DW unholy build is... off. My guild hasn't been doing public logs lately so I can't back it up with actual proof (not that one person's logs on one specifc fight would prove anything), but I was doing higher dps on VT with the 3/32/6 frost build in FP than I was with the 7/31/3 UP build. I have not yet tried 2H, but has anyone compared the 2H build to the DW FP build?
i have been testing it a bit on atramedes/nef hc. whilst these are both fights that do not really favor dk dps (can't HB with damage buff up in p1/3), i can still say it works quite well. i got up to a steady 21k dps (worth noticing i only got 1 dominion on nefarian)
it is worth noticing my gear is not exactly best. i will start testing with reforging in favor of crit / reforging in favor of mastery. so far this HB priority seems really strong.
edit: forgot to mention, i was using RoR. this increases dps by quite a bit over RoFC since HB gains a lot of damage.
After some further testing, reforging in favor of crit is the worst option by far. reforging in favor of mastery pulls ahead of haste by about 3%. keep in mind this percentage is affected by your personal haste/mastery ratings, as mastery gains in value for frost HB priority exponentially when you're using RoR on your weapon.
I saw that note that we should think about keeping and extra weapon for AE situations with Cinderglacier on it, but I was wondering if anyone has pittled with switching the Cinderglacier wep in while you have 5 stacks of the Razorice debuff. This method should give you 15 sec. or so of the Cinderglacier and the Razorice debuff every 20ish sec. You could also do this with the Fallen Crusader buff and get an even bigger bonus with 2 cinderglaciers out when the buff and debuff applied. Although, Fallen Crusader refreshes itself so you may just want to keep it in the main hand at all times. I would test this myself, but i don't have 3 really good identical weapons on my alt DK. I was just thinking that you could benefit from Razorice all the time, Fallen crusader all the time, and Cinderglacier for 15sec of every 20 sec. Please let me know what you guys think.
Absolutely. I don't have any viable logs as of yet due to various bugs and so forth, but I have gone to FP dw'ing still stacking haste, and although I am GCD capped during hero/lust the spec works much better, flows nicely and actually does a bit more damage then UP in high movement situations. Hopefully I can get a decent parse tonight for analysis.
This is not enough information to work with but all I have right now. I had to suicide a blackout at the end, and was not my best effort by far, but some information for dw'ing in FP stacking haste none the less.
Been a rough week with dc's and so forth. I will get good set of logs next lockout. Here is Magmaw(not kiting) in FP stacking haste with the 7/31/3 build. I will also test 4/31/6 next week.
Maybe because their bis list is wrong and they dont spend that much time in dk theorycraft? The list posted here is 100% correct, you cant get better than with this gear setup.
04/27/11, 10:59 PM
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