Blood | DK endgame tanking [4.x] - Page 35

Yörgle · 12/02/11, 3:59 AM

Did you guys noticed that jewelcrafters' gems were not modified, in the end ? :-/
For now, it doesn't change a thing, but in a few days / weeks when our main gear will be supposed to be gemmed with epic stones, that will represent like 30 mastery lost. That's not a huge deal, but that kind of sucks.

Any information if this is intended, if they want to upgrade them later in 4.3 or else ?

Epimetheus · 12/02/11, 4:08 AM

Originally Posted by CortDK

Got souldrinker tonight. Here are logs on a dummy. Just went for 200 obliterates.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

139.7k health.

Proc rate is about 15% of all main hand attacks (a little higher, but relatively low sample rate explains that), including FS, OBL, PS, and of course melee swings. So the sim numbers should be pretty accurate.

Souldrinker indeed procs from autoattacks AND yellow which highly increases its HPS in comparison with my rough ~800 HPS estimation from autoattacks only...

Rhomboidspace · 12/02/11, 2:31 PM

I would like to point out there is still a bug (a favorable one) with 2/2 Butchery, that decreases the OOC runic depletion rate, so if you want to keep on moving for trash pulls or even almost ensure you have a nearly full ruinc pull at boss pull, 2/2 butchery is a great talent. Personally I feel this is more useful than the ~2.5% damage reduction from 3/3 Toughness (which also IMO is horrible in general for a 3rd Tier talent)

Rhomboidspace · 12/02/11, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Epimetheus

Souldrinker indeed procs from autoattacks AND yellow which highly increases its HPS in comparison with my rough ~800 HPS estimation from autoattacks only...

DW Souldrinkers might be a viable Tanking option, depending on what DPS difference there might be since we don't really have to worry so much about stacking Hit and Exp. Threat is essentially a face roll, so difference going from 2h special attacks to 1h ones still shouldn't cause problems. And survive-ability is essentially increased with such a decent proc rate. Who wants to do the number crunching

I'm not trying to bring up DW tanking as a viable option in any other case, but it would be kind of cool to pull off one of those "blizzard you have to nerf this b/c, creative players came up with something that is too OP"

Wurtane · 12/03/11, 2:26 AM

Originally Posted by Yörgle

Did you guys noticed that jewelcrafters' gems were not modified, in the end ? :-/
For now, it doesn't change a thing, but in a few days / weeks when our main gear will be supposed to be gemmed with epic stones, that will represent like 30 mastery lost. That's not a huge deal, but that kind of sucks.

Any information if this is intended, if they want to upgrade them later in 4.3 or else ?

Pretty sure it's intended. They don't want everyone going JC.

Originally Posted by Rhomboidspace

DW Souldrinkers might be a viable Tanking option, depending on what DPS difference there might be since we don't really have to worry so much about stacking Hit and Exp. Threat is essentially a face roll, so difference going from 2h special attacks to 1h ones still shouldn't cause problems. And survive-ability is essentially increased with such a decent proc rate. Who wants to do the number crunching

I'm not trying to bring up DW tanking as a viable option in any other case, but it would be kind of cool to pull off one of those "blizzard you have to nerf this b/c, creative players came up with something that is too OP"

As funny as that would be, I'd rather not be the retard who tries it. Plus, pretty sure my guild would boot me...(And I'd deserve to be booted...)

Yörgle · 12/03/11, 4:18 AM

Originally Posted by Wurtane

Pretty sure it's intended. They don't want everyone going JC.

That wouldn't be a problem. In this (unlikely) scenario of anyone going JC, those who benefit from the excess of stats won't use it to its full potential (because if it's a slight advantage, that means you don't have epic gems on your gear) and those who are optimized to the fullest (including epic gems) will just have their +80stats through craft, as anyone else.
However, for the moment, if you are a JC when you'll have epic gems on your gear, you'll suffer from a loss compared to any other craft.

As I said earlier, I really find epic gems annoying and unecessary, exactly for this kind of issues... I really don't see the point of adding that. *sigh*

Originally Posted by Wurtane

As funny as that would be, I'd rather not be the retard who tries it. Plus, pretty sure my guild would boot me...(And I'd deserve to be booted...)

If math proves that, as unlikely as it is, it's actually the best survival option, why would that be a problem ? ô_O

On an unrelated note :

Raise Ghoul, Blood Tap, Empower Rune Weapon, and Army of the Dead no longer benefit from the cooldown reduction and the duration increase from the buff Last Defender of Azeroth.

Yay !

Otou · 12/03/11, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Yörgle

On an unrelated note :

Raise Ghoul, Blood Tap, Empower Rune Weapon, and Army of the Dead no longer benefit from the cooldown reduction and the duration increase from the buff Last Defender of Azeroth.

Yay !

Damage Done - Ultraxion 25N

Now I will only be able to do 30k down from 35k while dps tanking Ultraxion. RIP super ghouls.

I see why they had to make a change though, blood would've been the best dk dps spec with full haste/crit optimized gear. I'm glad dancing rune weapon escaped the nerf but, they could've left blood tap for convience purposes.

kow · 12/04/11, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Rhomboidspace

DW Souldrinkers might be a viable Tanking option, depending on what DPS difference there might be since we don't really have to worry so much about stacking Hit and Exp. Threat is essentially a face roll, so difference going from 2h special attacks to 1h ones still shouldn't cause problems. And survive-ability is essentially increased with such a decent proc rate. Who wants to do the number crunching

I'm not trying to bring up DW tanking as a viable option in any other case, but it would be kind of cool to pull off one of those "blizzard you have to nerf this b/c, creative players came up with something that is too OP"

If you have to you can just start a fight in 2h and then weapon swap to dw for additional self-heals. Swap back to 2h any time you need to build threat quickly, etc.

Ayreon · 12/05/11, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Liar

The Improved Blood Presence bug is back: You can get crit so be careful. I don't know if swapping in out and presences fixes this, but people have been reporting that the crit immunity can reset whenever you zone. (Yet another reason to make the crit immunity global when you spec Blood in MoP.)

I tried switching presences, I tried switching spec, I tried respecing but nada - as of yesterday I was still getting crit on both trash and bosses in the new 5 mans. Our DK tank was also crit by Zonozz.

DarthMetatron · 12/05/11, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ayreon

I tried switching presences, I tried switching spec, I tried respecing but nada - as of yesterday I was still getting crit on both trash and bosses in the new 5 mans. Our DK tank was also crit by Zonozz.

On this note, I had to stop tanking Zon'ozz because he would instajib me after the first Black phase at about the 4th bounce. This happened to me about 4-5 times so the Warrior had to take over.

Nanus · 12/06/11, 2:54 AM

Since a missed Death Strike doesn't give the heal, do dk tanks need hit?

Cause it means that if you miss a DS you don't have neither the heal NOR the shield, so until you reach the cap hit rating is more important than mastery!

Same argument for expertise.

Yörgle · 12/06/11, 4:12 AM

Originally Posted by Nanus

Since a missed Death Strike doesn't give the heal, do dk tanks need hit?

Cause it means that if you miss a DS you don't have neither the heal NOR the shield, so until you reach the cap hit rating is more important than mastery!

Same argument for expertise.

I think you misunderstand how DS now works. When you push your bind you get healed, regardless of the DS landing or not.

Currently, DKs aiming for a maximum of survivability should feforge hit and expertise away ; however, this lowers our DPS which was not so amazing to begin with. I guess that is thefefore a question of personnal choice or to adapt according to the encounter.

Nanus · 12/06/11, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Yörgle

I think you misunderstand how DS now works. When you push your bind you get healed, regardless of the DS landing or not.

Actually I tested it with recount, if you have 20 DS hit + 1 DS miss you have 20 heals.

Yörgle · 12/06/11, 5:13 AM

I wouldn't rely too much on Recount, to be honnest. It's a very convenient tool, to browse your death just after a wipe for example, but it has some issues and it happens that some datas are just not recorded. Take WoL, it's usually more precise.

I can't provide one of my recent logs as my guild makes them private so I took the liberty of browsing a random log I found on WoL frontpage, where there was a Blood DK. You can see in the following extract that the miss also provided a heal (the timeline doesn't leave a doubt ^^) :

[04:25:28.205] Tuugrim Death Strike Tuugrim +400 (O: 13904)
[04:25:28.205] Tuugrim casts Death Strike on Lava Wielder
[04:25:28.364] Tuugrim Death Strike Lava Wielder *37880*
[04:25:29.830] Tuugrim Death Strike Tuugrim +0 (O: 14303)
[04:25:29.830] Tuugrim casts Death Strike on Lava Wielder
[04:25:29.830] Tuugrim Death Strike Lava Wielder Miss
[04:25:31.373] Tuugrim Death Strike Tuugrim +0 (O: 14303)
[04:25:31.373] Tuugrim casts Death Strike on Lava Wielder

Sawce : World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

If you want to be sure, maybe you could just go on a dummy and cast death strikes one by one until you get a miss, and see if it provided a heal. (I would do it just for the record, even if the log is self-explanatory, but I'm at work ^^).

Yörgle · 12/06/11, 2:48 PM

Confirmed on a dummy : no bug with the DS heal.
You can see on my HUD that a missed DS healed me. On the right there's the DS icon with "Raté" (Missed, in french) and on the left, the heal. You can see there's no previous DS (I used the skill when the previous faded from the ui for a clear screenshot ^^).