Frost DPS | Winter of Discontent [4.3] - Page 35

fatsquirrel · 02/10/12, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by elive

I was thinking that is [Glyph of Icy Touch] viable in Masterfrost specc for Spine heroic since huge portion of my dps is Frost Fever?

Glyph of Icy Touch is definately a dps upgrade from the aoe damage, but keep in mind, itll tick 20% harder also on the tentacles, and since you have to be careful not to kill them on the certain parts of the fight, glyph isnt recommended.
Also blood dps is worthless when you have 10 residue down anyway.

Azhe · 02/11/12, 1:17 AM

Why the hell would you use masterfrost or glyph of icy touch on heroic spine, a fight which is almost singularly about your ability to burst DPS tendons??

Maeylor · 02/11/12, 3:13 AM

If you've been paying attention, also if you look at logs, the best parses on WoL are from almost all masterfrost.

Netukka · 02/11/12, 5:33 AM

Originally Posted by Azhe

Why the hell would you use masterfrost or glyph of icy touch on heroic spine, a fight which is almost singularly about your ability to burst DPS tendons??

Masterfrost priority does absolutely nothing regarding your tendon burst. In fact, with the extra mastery instead of haste, youll actually do more burst. No one is forfeiting the use of obliterate at certain points, just because you mash HB at other times.

Glyph of IT on the other hand, will obviously reduce burst. It depends entirely on your tactic whether you should use it or not. But with the ~19% tendon nerf, its not so tight anymore, so if you wanna rock the WoL parses, glyph IT and plead to your RL to let you go crazy on slimes. Just dont wipe the raid on last plate.

HellHamsterr · 02/11/12, 5:44 AM

They are obviously cheesing meters by doing unnecessary blood dps, which is also a huge strain on the healers.

Masterfrost is clearly better though for that fight, because mastery is supposedly better for single target burst according to sims, i tend to agree just looking at the comparison of frost strike crits vs obliterate crits, with 4 set bonus and +2400 mastery (which by the way is easily achieveable with any gear since you are reforging off expertise) frost strikes tend to do more than obliterate, and also when the tendons are dead and after you kill off the remaining corruptions, you need very high burst aoe to kill any necessary bloods to get amalgamation stacks high before rolling them off.

The only legitimate reasoning for haste obliterate being better on burst is by having insane Runic Empowerment RNG and using 1 km obliterate every 1-3 gcds or so.

Also about Madness, it is pretty obvious that masterfrost is by far the highest dps dk spec of all. With the mini-lust buff by prioritising KM procs as fast as possible and using howling blast and rime as filler, not to mention the higher burst and aoe, you can easily see how good it is.

Stans · 02/12/12, 11:43 AM

I have a few quick questions about using Masterfrost as I've recently decided to change things up and try to get the most out of my LFR gear.

1) When opening, assuming you open with PoF and Ghoul, you're left with 5 runes so I would normally OBx2 and then HBx1 and commence FS'ing, if RE doesnt proc then BT+HB again. Is there anything I'm doing wrong with this as an opener and how does Rime's Prior come into play when you intended to do multiple OB's? Is first with 2 proc and 1 proc or only if 2procs, if 1 proc contine OB'ing?

2) That last bit of #1 as well is important for ERW, I would try to PoF right before and OBx3, but rime procs lets say twice out of those 3, you don't have that 2200 haste you're used to so how do you deal 1x or 2x Rime procs in the middle of OB spam? If I try to HB all the rimes assuming I see then and am not tuneling OB button since I"m used to doing that with hast prior, I usually end up with capped RP a little before I'm done with all the OB's.

3) From the 10 or pages I've read over I've figure while unholy runes are less than 1.5runes regenerated you use other runes for HB and RE proc for such as well. If that 2nd unholy rune is <.5sec till regen then OB with death+unholy or frost+unholy or RE proc+unholy. I want to check that I'm understanding this system correctly? Also does anyone track RE procs with anything or just watching your Runes like a hawk?

4)Does 4pc Mastery proc entail any certain new priority while its up or is it just xtra fun when it is up. And why for the love of god is our 4pc a 25% chance proc of a 45% chance proc? I feel like DKs got the shaft on set bonuses this tier where

5) What addon is Cort using in that yorsahj video, I use NeedtoKnow but I can't get the abilities to collapse like that as they come and go so I have a huge space between my diseases and my horn of winter.

Netukka · 02/12/12, 6:01 PM

You should refer to the simple Q&A thread when asking questions not really directed at specific end game raids. That said...

1) You should open PoF+OB -> Obl -> HB -> HB and go from there. You are left with one full U rune. Ghoul as soon as your trinket is stacked/procced and RoFC procs.

2) I'd rather ERW -> PoF+Obl -> HB and go from there. You will have 1 U and 1 F remaining. Depending how much RP you have or whether Rime procs you just continue FS or HB mashing. Just try not to waste too many resources. If PoF is not up, I'd still only do one Obl -> HB x3. If you Obl x2 or x3, you'll risk the next RE going to U rune rather than D or F rune.

3) Im not quite sure what you are asking here. You Obl when the 2nd U rune is about to regen. As long as you have one full U rune up, RE will only proc D or F runes.

4)No. And whining is not tolerated.

And considering your confusion with 3), I recommend you download a rune addon to track your runes. I recommend DocsDebugRunes (DDR), but its up to everyones personal preference.

Stans · 02/12/12, 7:00 PM

Thanks, guess I worded 3 weird but your answer helped me out perfectly. No whining here lol, just sayin.q

fatsquirrel · 02/13/12, 7:38 AM

Hello

I am currently progressing on madness heroic (still -.-) and we've been having a lot of problems with dpsing the bloods in p2. Thats why I was thinking about spellweave and how it procs from dks spells.
Do we have a confirmation that Howling blast procs spellweave, or is it only the our diseases that tick and proc it?
If so, priortizing obliterate and froststrike over howling blast would prove to be more effectient on the bloods than howling blast that doesnt proc spellweave wouldnt it?

Also, does spellweave hit the target you are directly damaging or does it only hit other targets that you are not directly hitting and are in range of it?

Azhe · 02/13/12, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by HellHamsterr

They are obviously cheesing meters by doing unnecessary blood dps, which is also a huge strain on the healers.

Masterfrost is clearly better though for that fight, because mastery is supposedly better for single target burst according to sims, i tend to agree just looking at the comparison of frost strike crits vs obliterate crits, with 4 set bonus and +2400 mastery (which by the way is easily achieveable with any gear since you are reforging off expertise) frost strikes tend to do more than obliterate, and also when the tendons are dead and after you kill off the remaining corruptions, you need very high burst aoe to kill any necessary bloods to get amalgamation stacks high before rolling them off.

Clearly reforging to mastery is better for tendon burst (actually, I posted a while earlier about the possibility of crit even being better than haste for tendon burst), but its a bit of a stretch to call that "masterfrost". Only reason I brought it up is because people are going on about glyphing IT which would imply an intention of optimizing around an HB centric priority system, which would be colossally stupid on this fight.

Maeylor · 02/13/12, 5:15 PM

But, in a mastery-heavy build, didn't either you or Cort, i dont remember whichi, point out that HB x3 followed by OBx1 produce more DPS than than spamming your OB?

I'm not sure I would call it an "HB centric priority," rather than an adapted OB priority. It's just that with Rime & timeslip from our 2p, it's obvious we should be HB'ing a considerable amount more. This also helps us ensure we overwrite less of our rime & 2p bonuses, correct? At least it does for me.

Azhe · 02/13/12, 10:54 PM

I posted awhile back showing how under certain conditions, priority systems that burn some runes on HB instead of OB might come close or even pass up OB spam when you are rune regen limited. Whether or not that translates into an overall DPS gain depends on how big the advantage over OB when regen limited is (if there is one), and how "correctly" you are able to switch between HB and OB centric rotations when resource starved/rich, respectively. Cort did a lot of simulator work basically investigating the same thing, and came up with some heuristic rules on how best to incorporate HB centric rotations into regen limited phases, and named this "Masterfrost".

However, it has always been the case that if you are resource rich enough to fill every GCD with an OB, FS, or rime proc, that you should use all runes on OB. This is simply because, GCD for GCD, OB hits much, much harder than HB. So for tendon burst damage, you absolutely should be burning all runes on OB. I find that even with very low haste values (reforging for mastery/crit), I am still GCD locked when spamming OB for the 20s tendon duration, provided I start will full runes/RP.

Edit: Also, when I refer to "masterfrost" or "HB-centric" im generally referring to a strategy which one way or another burns some runes on HB. it's true, depending on RE procs and haste, that even in such a rotation you may end up spending runes on OB just as often as HB, so HB-centric isn't really a good name. As far as just running more mastery heavy, It's true that due to our 2pc, the nature of many fights this tier, and the diminishing value of haste once you start getting into the 2000+ range, that running more mastery-heavy is going to be advantageous even if you are using straight up OB spam on single targets.

Netukka · 02/14/12, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by fatsquirrel

Hello

I am currently progressing on madness heroic (still -.-) and we've been having a lot of problems with dpsing the bloods in p2. Thats why I was thinking about spellweave and how it procs from dks spells.
Do we have a confirmation that Howling blast procs spellweave, or is it only the our diseases that tick and proc it?
If so, priortizing obliterate and froststrike over howling blast would prove to be more effectient on the bloods than howling blast that doesnt proc spellweave wouldnt it?

Also, does spellweave hit the target you are directly damaging or does it only hit other targets that you are not directly hitting and are in range of it?

Here is a log from our last kill considering p2 blood damage. As its quite clearly seen, HB definitely procs spellweave on all targets hit. Not absolutely sure about DnD but I think it does.

And spellweave hits every target except the target it procced from. For example, say your HB hits 5 targets ABCDE. If spellweave procs from targets B and D, it will hit ACE 2 times and BD once

tritodt · 02/15/12, 8:17 AM

sry mistake -.-

Pyryte · 02/15/12, 10:23 AM

The reason most Frost DKs (and some UH DKs) are getting huge parses on Spine, especially as masterfrost, is because most of them are on blood duty. Our guild has 2 DKs kill the required bloods, everyone else is on the amalg/amalgs.

The best way to effectively use a frost DK on this fight is to have them be on blood killing duty. With the massive nerfs to tendons, the difference between masterfrost and normal priority is not going to make or break your raid.