Question about Unholy Frenzy. I have been playing frost for a long while and forgot quite a few things about Unholy.

Working on Heroic Zon'ozz 25 man and we're continuously getting low percentage wipes. I have been sticking Unholy Frenzy on myself but I do remember that there are several classes that do potentially gain a bigger benefit out of Unholy Frenzy than myself. We are running with the following comp that gains from Frenzy.

* 1 Fury Warrior
* 2 Combat Rogues
* 1 Frost DK
* 1 Unholy DK (myself)
* 1 Retribution Paladin

I am currently sitting at 2284 haste with a 20% gain being 2741 which pushes me past the "2600" secondary benchmark when diminishing returns are being gained. Would it be more optimal to lower my haste (I do have 2 piece T13) where I hit exactly 2600 haste with Unholy Frenzy or stay at my current limits and give Unholy Frenzy to another class? If so which of these classes benefit the most? Conventional wisdom teaches Fury Warriors but since they have been kinda hit hard this patch in terms of damage, while he is doing great damage, isn't near the top of the meters. The retribution Paladin and I both have Gurthalak Voice of the Deeps so it pay possibly be him that gain the biggest benefit over me.

Well, I'm supprised a bit. I have checked the logs and there is no DnD Damage. Im wondering,
If you put DnD in front of the boss, the Debuff for DnD appears. But how it seems, it makes no Dmg :>
Maybe fail of me :>

I am getting some very different results than most of you listed here. With both T12 and T13 2-set bonuses and HC VoA, my crit<haste inflection point is between 1884 and 1976 haste rating. I expected using that trinket and the T13 set bonus to inflate the value of haste, but not quite like this.

Before making these gear changes this week I was finding the inflection point to be around 2400 haste rather than 2600 which was given in the OP's post.

edit: Also I was using Heart of Rage in my previous sims, so dropping so much expertise should have also lowered the haste > crit inflection point. I think that this point is highly dependent on your current gear setup and giving a number like "2600" is very misleading.

VoA and AoK will inflate the value of crit in Simcraft unrealistically if that's what you're using. Neither trinket is dependable for Unholy even after the fix for pets and minions to benefit from crit. You're still not actively stacking crit and so you'll still have a low crit rate, in addition to a lot of Unholy's damage sources not being able to actually trigger the trinkets to add stacks.

Are you saying that there is a bug in simulationcraft regarding these trinkets? Or do other sim tools report signifcantly different results? VoA was shown to be a very valuable trinket for us a few posts back. I have 2300 crit rating so in a raid environment, that's ~21% crit chance for melee attacks and 26% for spells. Hitting these haste soft-caps is very easy if you have good gear, and we will be stacking crit at those points.

Call me names and rape me at night if the following question or statement is anywhere already in this Thread...

But my Guilds Arms Warrior got the Sword of Deathwing, with the Tentacle Proc.
On Zonozz normal mode it got crazy numbers like 10% Dmg with about 1,6m Damage done. Of course Zonozz has that crazy plusdmg buff but nonetheless:

Am i totally wrong if I say that Unholy outwheights Frost only based on the fact that Unholy uses 2h ( which means uses the Deathwing weapon) by a great amount unless it is a heavy ae based encounter?

I'm saying that using those trinkets increases the value of crit but not your DPS. The value rises because you need crit to stack the buffs to receive the benefits from those trinkets. VoA is a valuable trinket for increasing the value of crit, but that's completely irrelevant because there are better trinkets that will give you better DPS. If you drop VoA/AoK (perfect replacements would be Rosary of Light and Varo'then's Brooch), you'll see the value of crit drop back down close to Mastery and you'll also do more DPS (and have more reliable trinkets to boot).

Mastery will probably be preferred over crit because of Gurthalak and AoE, anyway.

Download results_BiS_DK_T13_procsword.html from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

As for VoA, I think you're the confused one making silly assumption here. I haven't said or implied that VoA is useless. What I have said is that it's not optimal and that crit's value is inflated by it in sims. No one should be using VoA for long now anyway. Even if crit rating's value remained high without it, Creche and Eye are far better.

Crit boosts absolutely everything we do (at last!), while Mastery boosts only our personal shadow damage. Simulations tend not to take into account AMS soaking or phases with multiple targets (both of which enhance the value of Mastery). Looking back over my own logs, over a large number of boss kills, in the aggregate, I see that of the total damage I contribute (myself and minions) just over 40% of that is shadow. A point of Mastery increases that damage by 2.5%, meaning a point of Mastery increases my overall damage contribution by a hair over one percentage point. If this holds true generally (which I'm not sure that it does, but probably my biggest shortcoming as an Unholy DK is under-utilization of D&D, so I wouldn't be shocked if it did) then the ~optimal gearing would be to keep (raid-buffed) mastery rating and crit percentage as close as possible, right? The relationship between Haste and Crit is unlikely to change much between a simulation and real life (at least, if you use the helterskelter option in simc) so the overall strategy would be to get haste to the crossoverpoint, and then equalize crit and mastery, no?

Thanks for the sim link. I"ll look over that, it's pretty interesting. Your manual scale deltas are pretty suspicious, although as best as I know it should only inflate your haste values:

Scale Deltas 300 300 300 601 -601 896 -640 -896

I'm not making silly assumptions at all. You claimed all it is good for is inflating crit which isn't remotely true. It is a very good trinket for it's level, which is backed up with maths, sims and in game. You were wrong.

This doesn't answer any questions as it's simply this: "This is wrong." "Why?" "Because it is." Then we closed the issue.

If someone does find an actual issue with the simulator, please let us know and we'll get it fixed. Saying something is wrong just because someone thinks it's wrong, with no evidence to back up the claim, just wastes everyone's time.