Unholy DPS | My Friend of Misery [4.3.0] - Page 21

ZelosRaine · 01/15/12, 3:37 AM

Just to further confirm Rayzorium's point, I did some raid dummy testing this afternoon. I can confirm that both FF and BP were unaffected by trinkets and RFC procs even when refreshed by Festering Strike. Diseases applied while already under the effect of a trinket or Unholy Strength ticked harder than those applied without (this was tested, among other ways, by simply using IT on a raid dummy at range without ghoul and using an on use str trink). This increased damage was sustainable via FS. Additionally, diseases applied using IT and BP and then updated via Outbreak once procs had occurred ticked harder than the original application and these higher damage ticks were sustainable via FS.

This is intended both to provide confirmation of Rayzorium's point and to summarize this approach to diseases. The desirable opening of fights such as Zon'ozz might now be IT>DD>PS>normal priority system, keeping an eye on procs so that when trinkets and Unholy Strength are both up, you refresh using Outbreak (this should happen early in fight and still, probably, occur during your prepot).

With my gear (replacing a passive str trink with Essence of the Eternal Flame), the buffed diseases tended to tick up to 1k harder than their unbuffed versions. While I feel this difference hardly matters on a fight like Madness or Spine where target swapping is frequent, on mostly single target fights, it seems clear that an updating and then continuation of diseases as a response to favorable procs would be ideal. Additionally, I also cannot help but agree that on use trinkets such as the Rotting Skull now seem all the more attractive to me. Great find.

DeusX · 01/15/12, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Minoan

Still suggesting that crit is much more useful for diseases, and crit-based build-for Madness. Anyone tried different reforges on Madness? Logically, Madness requires exp cap, but that's too expensive.

Why does Madness require Exp cap? As far as I see in logs and in some rogue guide (Method's), some adds you have in that fight (Tentacles) don't parry, don't dodge and cannot even be missed. Tbh, I even want to try that fight with no exp, no hit just to see how it ends. :-)

khel · 01/16/12, 3:54 AM

On encounters like Ultraxion then where you can keep your diseases rolling from start to finish, we should be asking for an early tricks as well then to further buff those diseases, just like in WotLK.

Charybdis · 01/16/12, 3:07 PM

Those looking to maximize their diseases (or anything else really) through other raid members should chat with them about it beforehand. A good rogue will hopefully do research on which classes can get the most benefit from tricks. Likewise, a good Unholy player will hopefully look at whether another raid member might benefit more from Unholy Frenzy.

DeusX · 01/17/12, 3:16 AM

Last night I have tried Ultraxion normal (we don't do HC just yet) and the increase in disease damage was noticeable compared to last Monday, when I did not care. I am using same gear, same reforge (haste>crit>mastery):

1 week ago:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

yesterday
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

BP got up from 7.4% to 9.4% and FF from 5.6% to 6.9% of my damage. I have to admit I was lucky with crits yesterday, but the ticks values are clearly higher than last week.
I had to sacrifice 2 SS (2x25000k average = 50k damage) to use IT+PS (=24300 damage) during the peak of my opening.
I think it's worth it, at least on this type of fight.

Hinenuitepo · 01/17/12, 1:27 PM

I rolled diseases on Ultraxion sunday night, not optimally but did try to watch procs (WTB a good attack power visual addon) for outbreak. I'm lazy and at work again, so won't post my logs but I did get a ranking on normal mode.

Mostly posting here to confirm that rolling on extended fights does seem to work and since I was the 'skeptic' I'd like to confirm this finding as well and say good work - oh, and recommend that this be in the OP since many if not most of us clearly didn't understand the mechanic given that it's gone through several iterations of how it works.

Maikro · 01/17/12, 4:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hinenuitepo

I rolled diseases on Ultraxion sunday night, not optimally but did try to watch procs (WTB a good attack power visual addon) for outbreak. I'm lazy and at work again, so won't post my logs but I did get a ranking on normal mode.

Mostly posting here to confirm that rolling on extended fights does seem to work and since I was the 'skeptic' I'd like to confirm this finding as well and say good work - oh, and recommend that this be in the OP since many if not most of us clearly didn't understand the mechanic given that it's gone through several iterations of how it works.

I use the addon TellMeWhen to show my procs; you can even make a stacked condition that will only pop up when all of them are active.

7alisman · 01/17/12, 7:32 PM

Does anyone know of an addon that is/has been kept current that works/reports similar to Bleeding Hearts from the old school GoD Blood days?

That addon made the tracking of current AP, highest AP, and visual of which AP level the currently rolling diseases were applied at.

As an example for those of you who dont remember, I cut a piece out of an old UI screenshot I had to provide a visual reference. As you can see in the photo, it shows my highest AP proc is 8000, current AP is 7914 and the icons indicate the AP level of when they were applied.

Uspoonybard · 01/17/12, 10:00 PM

Is anyone having trouble with pet dying on H Yor'sahj?

prossu · 01/18/12, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Uspoonybard

Is anyone having trouble with pet dying on H Yor'sahj?

I've noticed that if you leave your ghoul on the boss while moving to kill a blob, the ghoul might despawn because the range between you and it becomes too long. You can avoid this by getting the ghoul follow you whenever running out.

Zurieal · 01/18/12, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Uspoonybard

Is anyone having trouble with pet dying on H Yor'sahj?

I slightly delay my going to the slime so that this doesn't happen to me. Depends on your raids dps and if they can spare a small amount dps on the slime for the overall better dps on the boss.

Also my original point of activating an account here is this: Does anyone have some numbers on unholy frenzy and who its best used on and by how much? I've seen numbers simmed for DI and FM, althought I know thats a little different, I was hoping someone with the sim skills could do the same for unholy frenzy.

Guess this can be my general thanks for the years I've came here for info on everyclass and spec pretty much =) TY EJ!

Daerth · 01/21/12, 8:53 AM

There was a point in T11/12 where UF was *best* utilized on Fury warriors due to the synergy with Fury mastery but seeing how right now Arms is the top specc for warriors I think that's out of the picture. (Correct me if I'm wrong but that was also when UF increased physical damage done)

I don't have any actual rankings for you but regardless I think you should just use UF on yourself.

boo-boo · 01/21/12, 1:17 PM

Thank you Rayzorium, for finally getting the community to discuss disease rolling. I tried it myself in the past (post #28), but no one cared.

I'd like to add that applying diseases under Frost Presence will increase their ticking damage by 10%. In addition, applying them with Cinderglacier (alternate weapon enchant) proc up will increase their damage by 20% more. While I doubt switching presence or weapon mid-fight will result in a dps increase under normal circumstances, I'm toying with the idea of doing both just before Yor'sahj HC AoE periods, and spreading +30% diseases (and +20% DnD, corrected after Thalastor's following post) to the adds. At the moment I'm having trouble controlling the randomness of Cinderglacier procs, and not wasting them on SS/DC immediately when they do proc. But who knows, maybe there's a way...

About tracking current AP with an addon - I would also be very interested to know if there's a current addon that helps with that. And I would imagine we'd want to track Crit and Mastery as well. I'm using TMW too, but it's not very intuitive for this purpose.

About using Unholy Frenzy on other classes - Feral druids (cats) are excellent candidates, as they scale infinitely with haste, with no realistic cap (and among all cats, ones that stack haste and not mastery will gain the most). Using UF on cats during their Berserk (and possibly during a nuke phase or heroism) will undoubtedly be more beneficial to the raid than using UF on any other target, and the fact that both abilities (UF and Berserk) share a 3 minute CD makes it relatively easy to coordinate.

Thalastor · 01/22/12, 2:41 AM

DnD does update dynamically with ap and % damage bonuses (and though I haven't tested, I'd assume mastery as well).

As for diseases, I was able to gain about a 10% increase in tick damage from last week to this week on Ultraxion by applying with icy touch and plague strike on the pull and then outbreaking when I had all my procs up for Gargoyle. I did have to reapply outbreak again midfight, but the gain on my first couple of minutes of diseases was pretty significant when compared to just outbreaking first thing on the pull.

Looking at log browser for my most recent kill, I had about 30% more powerful diseases for the first 2 minutes before I had to reapply, and thats ignoring the fact that they were also rolling under the crit proc off creche.

Here's the parse:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

and this is the query set:
[{"spellNames": ["Blood Plague"], "eventTypes": [1]}, {"spellNames": ["Frost Fever"], "eventTypes": [1]}]

What annoys me most is that I could have been doing this since like 4.0 and just never thought of it

Uspoonybard · 01/22/12, 1:36 PM

Pretty sure for UF it's really good on Feral Druids (cat), MM hunters, it used to be good for fury warriors, but honestly I just throw it on myself if you don't have one of those, since MM hunters aren't really good this tier. So if there's no kitty in your raid I wouldn't even worry about it.