I got Gurthalak today and tested it on the Dummy. In my Case it did 8 Ticks of 11 - 12k dmg an spawned 2 Times in a 3 Minute fight (got one single fight where it spawned 3 Times).
Seems not that good if u ask me, but dunno the maths. Also it is scaling with Spell debuffs.
Gurthalak is awesome and is probably BiS for us, but it will take more testing.
See [BUG] Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - Forums - World of Warcraft for problems and logs, and yes, the tentacle from the latest PTR build is the same as on the live realms. That are the PTR results, but I didn't noticed anything that Gurthalak has changed.
Didn't see it mentioned earlier. Hagara's Shattered Ice can be copied with DarkSim and was doing well over 100k damage per copy as unholy (crit for over 220k as frost). Not easily predictable though from what I can tell. Has anyone found a reliable way of copying this?
It's a 2% proc chance of a tentacle that does ~8k dps. Plus wep dps. Ataraxis heroic gives~700 secondary stats, so ~1000 dps. The dps from gurthalak heroic is 40 greater, so ~200 dps. So if the tentacle is up 10% or more of the time, gurthalak would be marginally better. Given a 6 min fight, we need >36s uptime for gurthalak to be better. Each tentacle stays up for 8*1.5=12s, so we need more than 3 procs over a 6 min fight, which doesnt seem too unreasonable.
Then again one can argue that Gurthalak does not provide consistent damage output, but rather random bursts, so is inferior in most cases to Ataraxis
The proc chance does appear to be low. I recently recieved Gurthalak. I spent roughly an hour on the dummy testing it out doing about 101 million damage. No, I did not play perfectly. I made mistakes. I could easily have fit in an extra few DnDs if I was faster to react. DPSing the dummy for an hour is exhausting. However, it can show us some neat things.
That is 58.63 minutes long (I clipped the far ends to make sure there was no down time DPS involved). This is the spec I was using at the time: Talents & Glyphs - Game - World of Warcraft
I was not far enough behind the dummy to to be technically behind the dummy due to that dumb bug. Regardless, the log still works fine. It did a very high percentage of my DPS and makes the weapon BIS easily. It procs from melee swings, physical portion of SS, and Festering Strike.
Here's a 15 minute log on the dummy me using skills and such, with the sword. I think I had somewhat good RNG but on my other (shorter) tests it was doing at least 5-7% of my damage. So the tentacle is pretty much doing upwards of 1.5k DPS(e).
Also to note since I've seen questions about trinkets, VoA even with reforges to crit and full raid buffs is falling off at times for me. I get decent uptimes, 70-80%, but considering it can be hard to stack up I'm not sure of how it fares against the other trinkets.
Here's a 15 minute log on the dummy me using skills and such, with the sword. I think I had somewhat good RNG but on my other (shorter) tests it was doing at least 5-7% of my damage. So the tentacle is pretty much doing upwards of 1.5k DPS(e).
Also to note since I've seen questions about trinkets, VoA even with reforges to crit and full raid buffs is falling off at times for me. I get decent uptimes, 70-80%, but considering it can be hard to stack up I'm not sure of how it fares against the other trinkets.
It did 7.89% of my damage over 1 hour. Haste, buffs, and RNG will obviously make a difference player to player. I feel that I've reduced the RNG factor enough to say that it does roughly 8% of an Unholy DK's damage in full T12 heroic gear. My tentacle uptime was 18.6%.
Hagara's Shattered Ice can be copied with DarkSim and was doing well over 100k damage per copy as unholy (crit for over 220k as frost). Not easily predictable though from what I can tell. Has anyone found a reliable way of copying this?
Seems to happen fairly quickly after the channeled Focused Assault, so just throw it up when that appears. I had a normal hit for 136k in raid finder.
You were hitting a low level dummy though, if you look at both our parses you have almost half my misses while your sample is around 4 times larger. Although misses reduce the DPS you can expect from the proc a bit it's still very strong and as you said easily BiS.
It is nice to see that Gurthalak will pull ahead, proc weapons are a fun addition and sure beat plain old stats in my opinion, as long as they are of equal or greater value to the stats lost.
Out of curiosity and for the purpose of building my individual gear upgrade DPS boost spreadsheet, has anyone calculated an approximate value for the 2 and 4 piece bonuses in T12H and T13 gear?
On a separate note, I got the Bone-link Fetish from Raid Finder and used it on Heroic Rag and it did something like 3.8% of my damage...and I barely did any DPS to adds in that fight. On a high AOE fight that trinket is going to be insane, especially the normal/heroic versions compared to the Raid Finder version. Sure beats out the Crushing Weight I was using before....the #11 parse confirms that
It did a very high percentage of my DPS and makes the weapon BIS easily. It procs from melee swings, physical portion of SS, and Festering Strike.
Originally Posted by Sonrisa
Although misses reduce the DPS you can expect from the proc a bit it's still very strong and as you said easily BiS.
I concur. It seems very reasonable to assign the BiS to this weapon based on the data provided above. I have updated the listing for both Pre-Hardmodes and Hardmodes as a result. Pre-Hardmode is now split similarly based on content progression (if only for consistency's sake).
Originally Posted by Clowingaround
Didn't see it mentioned earlier. Hagara's Shattered Ice can be copied with DarkSim and was doing well over 100k damage per copy as unholy (crit for over 220k as frost). Not easily predictable though from what I can tell. Has anyone found a reliable way of copying this?
I hope you don't mind, but I took the liberty to add your finding to the Raid Strategies section in the OP. I have attributed your name and realm which I hope is sufficient! Thank you for sharing.
On the topic of Raid Strategies, I decided to remove T11's content and condense T12 for space purposes. T12 Firelands is now organized under 'Legacy Content' inside an expandable (spoiler-type) tab.
Using my own logs from Heroic Rag last night I found in my current gear setup the 2 and 4pc bonuses by themselves would be about 433 dps for 2pc and about 398 for 4pc. Obviously this is only an estimate and only takes into considering my own personal setup, but I imagine the values would be relatively similar for others in similar gear. It also assumes for the 4pc that there were no overwrites of the buff which is obviously highly unlikely so that value would likely drop by a relatively significant portion.
I am in T12H BIS with the exception of belt and relic which are 397 Dragon Soul, Bone-Link Fetish 384/RF version instead of H CW, and H Skullstealer instead of H Sulfuras.
If anyone has a better, more objective way to calculate these bonuses (which I'm sure someone does..) I would be much obliged to see your results as I am admittedly not the most exceptional theorycrafter out there...
Death coil is worth much more than its actual DPS. It buffs the ghoul and can proc runic corruption. Figure out what the DPS value is of three seconds off the rune timer for three runes (approx. 3/8 * (5/3 SS + 1/2 FS)), multiply by .45. Add that to the difference between your ghoul's buffed vs. unbuffed damage, times 1/5 of the fraction of time you spend with an unbuffed ghoul.
When I did the math based on some of my logs, DC was barely behind SS in terms of average damage value.
As far as the 4 piece, getting 52 RC procs in 195 DCs seems really low - it should be a 45% chance, not a 27% chance. On the other hand, you assumed that the 4 piece buff extends its own duration when refreshed, rather than just resetting it to 12. Given that we often fire DC in bursts (when at range, or recharging ghoul, or after AMS) this will overestimate its value. Unless I'm wron and it's duration adds, in which case it's pretty nice.
Voice of Deeps also appears to scale with raid buffs. It had been doing 12k a tick on a dummy, but in a raid today, it was doing 16-17k damage per tick.
It averaged 22.5k per tick! 37.7k crits! It probably only came up 3-4 times and still did 5% of my total damage. So, raid buffs/debuffs (spell damage?) make this sucker hit way harder. They also appeared to buff its crit rate. It now appears to scale with crit on gear.
Also, Heartless, you made a tiny mistake in 6/8 normal BIS. Trinket 1 [Eye of Unmaking] (LFR) Spine of Deathwing is listed as BIS. Should be Creche of the Final Dragon, if you agree.
Death coil is worth much more than its actual DPS. It buffs the ghoul and can proc runic corruption. Figure out what the DPS value is of three seconds off the rune timer for three runes (approx. 3/8 * (5/3 SS + 1/2 FS)), multiply by .45. Add that to the difference between your ghoul's buffed vs. unbuffed damage, times 1/5 of the fraction of time you spend with an unbuffed ghoul.
When I did the math based on some of my logs, DC was barely behind SS in terms of average damage value.
As far as the 4 piece, getting 52 RC procs in 195 DCs seems really low - it should be a 45% chance, not a 27% chance. On the other hand, you assumed that the 4 piece buff extends its own duration when refreshed, rather than just resetting it to 12. Given that we often fire DC in bursts (when at range, or recharging ghoul, or after AMS) this will overestimate its value. Unless I'm wron and it's duration adds, in which case it's pretty nice.
Good points about the DPS value addition to the ghoul, didn't even think about that but you are completely right.
I mentioned the 4pc resets vs. duration increase, though not in the same wording:
It also assumes for the 4pc that there were no overwrites of the buff which is obviously highly unlikely so that value would likely drop by a relatively significant portion.
And it does seem low to only have 52/195 DCs proccing RC, giving it a 27% chance. Then again, my luck is typically crap anyway, and when I played Frost I would frequently hit chains of many empty GCDs due to no RE procs.
Maybe I missed something in my logs? Here is a link to them again if you want to check.
Could anyone possibly up a list of trinks from 4.2, given the new statweights for unholy.
Using a bit of napkin math last night I found that Dwyer's Caber is now better than all the other trinkets I have access too. Seems VoA is still poor for me as I couldnt get it to build past about 2 stacks in my current gear.
I just downed Deathwing last night as unholy so I thought I'd like to impart some knowledge on that fight.
For any platform you don't have Nozdormu alive (and have to deal with elementium bolt), AMZ will block 75% of the brunt of the initial impact. So instead of blocking its normal ~40,000 damage it will block a lot more. Other, than elementium bolt, AMZ will get eaten up pretty quickly when the claw/wing tentacles are low on hp so it won't block as much damage.
Because of the insane haste buff you receive from Nozdormu and AMS runic power gains you will easily find yourself GCD capped throughout most of the fight (also depends on how your guild does it). If you are stuck on this fight I would suggest reforging haste to crit.
I also noticed that occasionally your pet will despawn or even die. The despawn probably has something to do with switching platforms but it only happened 1 once a fight or so. When it dies I think it is because of a bug with the large tentacles (the ones with impale) where they randomly autoattack a melee person instead of the tank regardless of threat or positioning (we had many melee people get one shotted, if you see the tentacle target you it may melee you). Just keep in mind of when your ghoul dies or despawns so you can summon it quickly, if it only despawned then it will retain its stacks.
Lastly, a few more general bugs: Swapping platforms sometimes fails and you fall through and die, unrezzable. Alexstrasza will occasionally not kill all of the blistering tentacles she is supposed to kill so be prepared to kill a straggler even if she is alive. It got to the point where the raid leader wanted to kick her out of the raid.
Other than that, depending on your strat/dps each platform took about 2-3 minutes I think, and you obviously want AMS for when the claw/wing tentacle is low on HP because thats when they hurt the most.
I didn't see this posted elsewhere, but can anyone confirm if Death and Decay hits Ultraxion? I was placing it so that the circle overlapped Ultraxion, but my logs from last night show he didn't take any damage from my DnD.
I didn't see this posted elsewhere, but can anyone confirm if Death and Decay hits Ultraxion? I was placing it so that the circle overlapped Ultraxion, but my logs from last night show he didn't take any damage from my DnD.
As far as i know, DnD does not hit Ultraxion. Just cut it out of your rotation for this fight.
I didn't see this posted elsewhere, but can anyone confirm if Death and Decay hits Ultraxion? I was placing it so that the circle overlapped Ultraxion, but my logs from last night show he didn't take any damage from my DnD.
Excellent deduction. I don't see any damage from DND on my logs either.
I also noticed that occasionally your pet will despawn or even die. The despawn probably has something to do with switching platforms but it only happened 1 once a fight or so. When it dies I think it is because of a bug with the large tentacles (the ones with impale) where they randomly autoattack a melee person instead of the tank regardless of threat or positioning (we had many melee people get one shotted, if you see the tentacle target you it may melee you). Just keep in mind of when your ghoul dies or despawns so you can summon it quickly, if it only despawned then it will retain its stacks.
I noticed mine despawned whenever I jumped more than a single platform at a time. If you wait for him to catch up after each jump, he'll stay up, but that is impractical, so I highly recommend just using this macro:
#showtooltip Death Coil
/cast [nopet] Raise Dead
/cast Death Coil
For any platform you don't have Nozdormu alive (and have to deal with elementium bolt), AMZ will block 75% of the brunt of the initial impact. So instead of blocking its normal ~40,000 damage it will block a lot more. Other, than elementium bolt, AMZ will get eaten up pretty quickly when the claw/wing tentacles are low on hp so it won't block as much damage.
Anyone know where exactly where heroic heart of rage fits into all this? Im trying to determine whether or not I should continue to use that over the 5 man trinket rosary of lights.
I'm still not getting any damage from D&D on Ultraxion, I'm just dropping it right on the edge of the platform, are you guys doing something different to actually get the damage?
12/01/11, 5:08 PM
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