Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02/14/12, 3:18 AM   #181
Khiandor
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Stormrage (EU)
Ty for the replies.

I just kept stacking haste because i was hesitant if switching to mastery at a certain point really was better, and there is no mention of switching to mastery in the Winter of Discontent guide. In the "410 dw BiS list" everything is also reforged into haste, including mastery => haste reforges. I would imagine that set ends up with even more haste than i have.

I guess i should try to drop some haste (to 2k or 2.2k), stack the rest in mastery and see what happens.

Offline
Old 02/14/12, 10:04 AM   #182
Lulenius
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Bilbobubblin View Post
Is there a general consensus as to when, or even if, Blood DKs should start prioritizing stam stacking? For the past month, I have been bringing my DK to my main's raid to tank H Yor, so I had been prioritizing stam given all the magic damage on the fight. I am making the swap to bring my DK full-time and am wondering if maintaining my stam prioritization is viable for Heroic DS in general.

To look at it another way, I have seen a stam stacking DK with 2.5k mastery and a mastery stacking DK with almost 4.5k mastery. That's a pretty huge difference. Both are on my server (Stormrage-US) and have heroic DS kills, so I'm not suggesting that either is wrong, but I do wonder which is best for which fight.

TLDR: Is stam stacking, at around 394 ilvl and rising with ~3400 mastery, viable / better / crap / yadda yadda? Thoughts, opinions?

Armory Link
I cannot give you a definitive, mathematically correct answer (because I am unsure if the relevant theorycrafting has been done), but I can at least give you my thoughts and anecdotal experiences.

I believe that the answer to your question depends on a couple key factors:

1) Whether you raid 10-man or 25-man, and
2) The composition and skill of your raid, as Padruthor noted above.

I see more value in focusing on stamina in 25-man raids. The point at which you will probably see tanks try stacking stamina is when they get to Heroic Warmaster Blackhorn, where getting one-shot even with a large chunk of health remaining is a real possibility.

I tank for a 10-man raid with a Holy Paladin and Disc Priest as my healers, plus a Resto Shaman for 3-healer fights. I currently match all socket bonuses: mastery/parry in red slots, mastery in yellow slots, and mastery/stamina in blue slots, and I reforge with a focus on mastery. I also use a Lichborne spec rather than a higher-DPS spec because my raid's DPS is quite good.

I can say that this setup has been adequate for every fight up through 6/8 Heroics cleared. In addition, during our Spine attempts so far, my survival has not been the issue. Whether or not it is optimal, I cannot tell you for certain.

Offline
Old 02/15/12, 1:17 AM   #183
Wyrmslayer
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Warrior
 
Aerie Peak
How does one reach uncrittable as a blood DK? Is there a magic number of dodge chance + parry chance that I need to reach in order to push crits off the hit table? This is with Improved Blood Presence of course.

Canada Offline
Old 02/15/12, 3:03 AM   #184
NEloi
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by Wyrmslayer View Post
How does one reach uncrittable as a blood DK? Is there a magic number of dodge chance + parry chance that I need to reach in order to push crits off the hit table? This is with Improved Blood Presence of course.
You spec into Improved Blood Presence

Maybe you're confusion uncrittable with Block cap (CTC) in which case we don't because we don't have block.

Last edited by NEloi : 02/15/12 at 3:11 AM.

Portugal Offline
Old 02/15/12, 3:54 AM   #185
gharnef
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
<TM>
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Wyrmslayer View Post
How does one reach uncrittable as a blood DK? Is there a magic number of dodge chance + parry chance that I need to reach in order to push crits off the hit table? This is with Improved Blood Presence of course.
You might be trying to find out how you were crit, what do you is zone out and back in. It's a bug. You reach crit cap with just the talent.

United States Offline
Old 02/15/12, 10:22 AM   #186
Jeudi
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Mug'thol
quick question, i have looked the pve BiS guide for DW frost DK's
i currently have access to

normal DS 10 man (4/8)
raid finder + heroics

some items are really easy to get :
( valor back + relic + neck )

but as far as the other ones goes
are the "same vertion" of items but lower ilvl are the best in slot in that ( braquet ? of ilvl ) ?

i hope my question is clear.
i will try to reformulate
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 410 ilvl = curently the best in slots
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 384 ilvl = the best in slots if i only have access to 384 ????

one other question, why is expertise rated so hight in stats priority, every where i look its the botom one
and here its just under hit

Last edited by Jeudi : 02/15/12 at 11:58 AM.

Offline
Old 02/15/12, 9:00 PM   #187
Lulenius
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Jeudi View Post
quick question, i have looked the pve BiS guide for DW frost DK's
i currently have access to

normal DS 10 man (4/8)
raid finder + heroics

some items are really easy to get :
( valor back + relic + neck )

but as far as the other ones goes
are the "same vertion" of items but lower ilvl are the best in slot in that ( braquet ? of ilvl ) ?

i hope my question is clear.
i will try to reformulate
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 410 ilvl = curently the best in slots
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 384 ilvl = the best in slots if i only have access to 384 ????

one other question, why is expertise rated so hight in stats priority, every where i look its the botom one
and here its just under hit
No, not necessarily. For example, the 410 Rockhide Bracers are best in slot, but the 397 crafted bracers (Bracers of Destructive Strength) are better than the 397 Rockhide Bracers. Also, many Heroic Firelands items, which are ilvl 391, are better than some 384 items.

The best way to figure out the relative value of an item is to multiple each stat on it by the appropriate stat weights, and add them all up.

Expertise is only so highly rated until you reach the expertise cap; after that, it is worthless.

Offline
Old 02/17/12, 3:08 AM   #188
Kawesuko
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Jeudi View Post
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 410 ilvl = curently the best in slots
[Treads of Crushed Flesh] 384 ilvl = the best in slots if i only have access to 384 ????

one other question, why is expertise rated so hight in stats priority, every where i look its the botom one
and here its just under hit
About Treads, VP 397 ones are for sure better than 384 [Treads of Crushed Flesh] and a lot easier to get.
About expertise, most of DW DK's dmg done comes from special attacks and every dodged attack is to much loss in overal dps.

Last edited by Kawesuko : 02/17/12 at 3:30 AM.

Offline
Old 02/17/12, 7:22 PM   #189
noquarters
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Kirin Tor
askmrrobot.com

United States Offline
Old 02/20/12, 4:18 AM   #190
Thepiegod
Von Kaiser
 
Thepiegod's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Jeudi View Post
guide for DW frost DK's


one other question, why is expertise rated so hight in stats priority, every where i look its the botom one
and here its just under hit
Expertise is ranked highly for frost DKs to the soft cap because as a frost DK a large portion of your DMg stems form your obliterates and your frost strikes. What further increases the importance for this stat for frost is that your RP dump, frost strike, counts as a melee hit and if it is avoided, you gain no dmg from the rp expenditure as well as losing the potential runic empowerment proc. This is different than unholy because an UH dk uses Death Coil for the rp dump which is a spell not affected by any avoidance other than hit rating. So it is possible that the guides you were looking at that ranked expertise poorly were actually guides for UH dks and not frost dks.

United States Offline
Old 03/02/12, 8:08 AM   #191
Minoan
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Ясеневый лес (EU)
May I ask you for a link to discussion of which expertise cap should be enough for Spine 10 HM? If there's not, what may be your number? Gills are not parrying or dodging strikes, as I heard;however, it may be an issue in hitting the elemental

Last edited by Minoan : 03/02/12 at 8:51 AM.

Australia Offline
Old 03/02/12, 5:46 PM   #192
Gravy_days
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Suramar
dual wield question

Hey everyone, I am trying to figure out what hand to put my one-handers in. Right now I've got Obsidian cleaver (378) in main and Treachery's Bite (378) in off hand.

I've never had a dual wield toon before, and it has made me question what exactly I should be looking for when deciding which hand to put the weapons in. The sources I've seen seem to flip back and forth sometimes, so what exactly should I be basing the decision on, especially if two weapons are similar or equal item level.

Links appreciated.

Thanks

EDIT: I'm doing mixed FL/LFR raiding, trying to gear up enough for 10 DS.

United States Offline
Old 03/03/12, 7:59 AM   #193
Thepiegod
Von Kaiser
 
Thepiegod's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
May I ask you for a link to discussion of which expertise cap should be enough for Spine 10 HM? If there's not, what may be your number? Gills are not parrying or dodging strikes, as I heard;however, it may be an issue in hitting the elemental
This seems like a curious thing to ask when as a frost DK you want to have the soft cap for expertise of 26 points (781 expertise rating) at all times, I fail to see why this would change for one particular encounter. As i play Unholy now, I was frost for the majority of FLs and that held true there, I do not see why it wouldn't now, but if it is, then this is more of a question for the frost dps thread and not simple q&a.

United States Offline
Old 03/03/12, 8:08 AM   #194
Thepiegod
Von Kaiser
 
Thepiegod's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Gravy_days View Post
Hey everyone, I am trying to figure out what hand to put my one-handers in. Right now I've got Obsidian cleaver (378) in main and Treachery's Bite (378) in off hand.

I've never had a dual wield toon before, and it has made me question what exactly I should be looking for when deciding which hand to put the weapons in. The sources I've seen seem to flip back and forth sometimes, so what exactly should I be basing the decision on, especially if two weapons are similar or equal item level.
Looking at those 2 weapons, it really does not make much of a difference because both of them have the same weapon dmg and swing speeds, which is what in most cases is what makes the determinant between which to put MH and which should go OH, as all the other stats affect both MH and OH equally. Generally as a frost dk you are going to want the weapon with the higher weapon dps to be in your MH as your MH weapon is never going to miss on a white swing (assuming 26 expertise and being positioned behind, as you should be), whereas your OH is going to be missing a good chunk of attacks as you only stack your hit rating to spell hit which leaves the OH white swing hit chance rather low. In the case of weapons with procs (Souldrinker) things can get a little more confusing because then the proc has to also be taken into effect, but as a general rule just look for the weapon with the higher weapon dps, and this is supported even in the case of Souldrinker basked on the reading for frost that I have done.

Edit: Your racials could affect the choice slightly as well depending on if you are a race that gets expertise bonus to a particular weapon.

United States Offline
Old 03/03/12, 9:14 AM   #195
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Your main hand still misses as much as your offhand for white hits but the rest is pretty much spot on. Just stick whatever has the highest DPS on the MH because of specials.


Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A jerrik666 Death Knights 179 07/29/11 3:00 PM