Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A - Page 3

Woundheir · 09/06/11, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Asphyxialol

It's easy to see the vast improvements on DS spamming when you run around in 5 mans in a haste oriented DPS set, but unfortunately it's not optimal for raids.

Typically speaking when gearing your priorities should be:

Enough stamina to survive any foreseeable burst -> mastery -> hit/exp or dodge/parry depending on which route you're taking > dodge/parry or hit/exp depending on which route you decided to take > haste > crit.

I understand burst-wise how stam and mastery would be a better defensive stat than haste, but why dodge/parry and how would I compare the defensive values to haste. In other words given a choice between a mastery/haste piece and mastery/dodge piece how would I compare the defensive value of haste and dodge? I'm looking for something to calculate it quantitatively.

Also how is hit making it above dodge/parry in any raid gearing choice, confused on what you mean by that. Threat buffs and all would think you would want all defensive stats.

Asphyxialol · 09/06/11, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by Woundheir

I understand burst-wise how stam and mastery would be a better defensive stat than haste, but why dodge/parry and how would I compare the defensive values to haste. In other words given a choice between a mastery/haste piece and mastery/dodge piece how would I compare the defensive value of haste and dodge? I'm looking for something to calculate it quantitatively.

Also how is hit making it above dodge/parry in any raid gearing choice, confused on what you mean by that. Threat buffs and all would think you would want all defensive stats.

Until the change comes in with landing DS consistently hit/exp is viable (review my armory, otou or etains, all 6/7h dks who actively tank each fight). Avoidance has some severe DR in the higher gear levels and sacrificing ~4% avoidance in favor of a 13% (exp soft cap) to 21% reduction in missrate on DS provides more consistent shields when you need them allowing you to choose how to smooth out your damage.

With 0 hit and 0 expertise you have a miss rate of 28.5% (14% parry, 6.5% dodge, and 8% miss), with 26 expertise (781 rating) you reduce that to a 15.5% chance at the cost of 4.41% avoidance. With hit and parry caps it's a little closer and debatable whether it's worth doing. I'm personally aiming for spell hit cap because I *hate* outbreak missing, and let the other ~2% melee hit kind of float there. For Alysrazor you could always throw on LtS for cap, etc.

This obviously ends up being less than a 4% loss because of how itemization already is in that you're not strictly trading avoidance for expertise/hit and avoidance DRs kicking in to effect (close to 1-2% at our levels).

In terms of haste it's a little trickier, as haste has specific 'breakpoints' with rune regen where it would impact death strike in a significant way and no one has really bothered to figure that out because it's obvious that the amount of avoidance (and most likely mastery) lost to achieve the haste break points would exceed the benefit of haste in the first place. It's fine for 5 mans because you never take enough damage in a single swing to put you remotely in to death category, but on anything that hits hard enough, and especially fast hitting or multi-mob pulls, avoidance will win out (avoidance already wins out on any fight where you can't actively time your DS between the majority of the hits - such as Baleroc).

Panthros · 09/08/11, 5:50 AM

I had a dream: is it possible to equip Scaces of Life Trinquet AND its hc version?

Rahlar · 09/08/11, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by Panthros

I had a dream: is it possible to equip Scaces of Life Trinquet AND its hc version?

Unique-Equipped: Scales of Life (1)

This has never been possible for any unique equipped item.

VanDante · 09/12/11, 9:45 PM

I am thinking about using an Unholy spec for certain fights in Firelands for the extra raid cooldown, i notice Anti-Magic Zone has around a 38k limit to its absorbtion amount. My question is, does that absorb 75% of all magic damage from a single hit (beyond the 38k) or does it cut off, allowing the rest of the spell to do its damage as normal, for example, would it absorb 75% of a cleave from Majordomo in scorpion form, or would it absorb 38k and let the rest through?

Illundai · 09/12/11, 11:12 PM

If you time it well, then it'll do what you think - absorb 75% of the damage on everyone. This is most probably not the intended behaviour, I guess it's more of a byproduct of latency if anything.

FacelessMinion · 09/13/11, 3:04 PM

I will admit that I am not sure whether this question counts towards the simple or towards the outright moronic... But what would a good and proper sim for estimating DPS be? I have used Rawr for gearing, but it seems to be less than accurate as far as DPS sims go.

Roop · 09/14/11, 9:51 AM

I am trying to look into the % of absorb that Dark Simulacrum does when used on a boss, but seem to be struggling to find any discussions about it. This is from a tanking perspective as used as a damage reduction tool, but also as DPS to trying to minimise the damage taken if I can avoid it.

Has anyone done any work into this? Just asking this before I embark on looking into it simply to find out that someone else beat me to it.

/edited "cause I spell like a retard"

NEloi · 09/14/11, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Roop

I am trying to look into the % of absorb that Dark Simucration does when used on a boss, but seem to be struggling to find any discussions about it. This is from a tanking perspective as used as a damage reduction tool, but also as DPS to trying to minimise the damage taken if I can avoid it.

Has anyone done any work into this? Just asking this before I embark on looking into it simply to find out that someone else beat me to it.

/edited "cause I spell like a retard"

You'll find zero discussions about Dark Simulacrum and the % of absorb because it doesn't say anything about providing an absorb % in its description and not many bosses cast absorb shields that allow you to copy them.

What it says in the tooltip is and I quote "Against nonplayers, only absorbs some harmful spells." maybe this is poorly worded, but what it means is that there will be spells that NPCs do that aren't going to be copied.

tapdov · 09/15/11, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by FacelessMinion

I will admit that I am not sure whether this question counts towards the simple or towards the outright moronic... But what would a good and proper sim for estimating DPS be? I have used Rawr for gearing, but it seems to be less than accurate as far as DPS sims go.

AFAIK, there is currently no reliable sim or other tool for analyzing DK dps. Which probably explains the lack of any stat weights in the UH thread, and the Frost weights being labeled "preliminary".

Odric · 09/17/11, 12:23 AM

I've read the forums on here and a few other places. I've checked my gear against Mr. Robot and also asked some other DKs on my server about it. My DPS just doesn't seem as high as it should be with the gear I have. I'm DW F DK, ilvl of 376 ( non-pvp) and I do around 18-21k on FL N Bosses. Aside from not having the Wildhammer head enchant ( currently working on it, revered so far ).. Is my rotation wrong? I am on World of Logs. I am looking for any constructive criticism you guys can give me. If I am doing something wrong I want to know so I can improve my DPS / play.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Odric @ Magtheridon - Game - World of Warcraft

CortDK · 09/17/11, 5:50 AM

Originally Posted by FacelessMinion

I will admit that I am not sure whether this question counts towards the simple or towards the outright moronic... But what would a good and proper sim for estimating DPS be? I have used Rawr for gearing, but it seems to be less than accurate as far as DPS sims go.

SimulationCraft is currently quite accurate for DKs. There are no known bugs in the output it generates, however it does have a tendency to sim some 5-10% higher than what even the best players are getting in game. Whether this is an issue of rotation perfection, or some flaw in combat/proc/damage calculation is unknown.

It is the primary source for stat weights. And is good for testing talent and gear changes. As with anything outside game, results are best tested in game. The latter can be hard to do given the RNG that exists in cataclysm.

huntcaudata · 09/17/11, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Odric

I've read the forums on here and a few other places. I've checked my gear against Mr. Robot and also asked some other DKs on my server about it. My DPS just doesn't seem as high as it should be with the gear I have. I'm DW F DK, ilvl of 376 ( non-pvp) and I do around 18-21k on FL N Bosses. Aside from not having the Wildhammer head enchant ( currently working on it, revered so far ).. Is my rotation wrong? I am on World of Logs. I am looking for any constructive criticism you guys can give me. If I am doing something wrong I want to know so I can improve my DPS / play.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Odric @ Magtheridon - Game - World of Warcraft

Simple things: Your'e not hit capped, your 2 trinket choices are somewhat poor, and your glove enchant is wrong. Get Essence of Eternal Flame, macro it with Pillar of Frost and replace crushing weight with it. Use an addon or wowreforge to get as close to hit cap as possible, but remember that hit has value past the yellow cap as well. If you're having difficulty, you should also replace apparatus with License to Slay since you can use the hit some and it's a strong trinket anyway. You're not using potions, which, frankly, you don't need to for normals, but it would up your numbers. Put strength on your gloves.

Beyond that, you're making some poor choices with cooldown usage. You should not be casting Army of the Dead during the middle of the fight unless there's complete downtime, which almost no fight has. Cast it pre-pull. You definitely shouldn't be casting it during Heriosm like you did on Baleroc. You used Ghoul only once on Baleroc even though you had time to use it twice. You forgot to use pillar during Rhyolith. It looks like Horn of Winter/Battle Shout don't have 100% uptime, which they should - you very likely have the spare GCD's and casting it generates Runic Power anyway, so make sure you're doing that.

I think it's likel you're making some rotation mistakes as well. On Baleroc, Frost Fever has only 91% uptime, which should never happen as Rime procs alone should keep it up. Blood Plague has less than 60% uptime - this needs to be 99% as well. This might be the reason your Obliterate damage is so low.

You need to look at fights, determine how long they normally last for your raid and when you Heroism and plan your Pillar of Frost, ghoul, and potion usage around that. You should also take a look at the priority list in the Frost thread and make sure you're actually following it (not just this - but for instance - keeping diseases up is priority #1).

Odric · 09/17/11, 12:38 PM

Thanks for the help. I changed up my trinkets and I redid the enchant on my hands. I also added 2 bars on my NeedToKnow addon for Blood Plague and Frost Fever, as well as a Horn of Winter. I'll see if that helps me with my Disease being on all the time. Thanks for the reply.

I do have a question about AoD. I was told that using it while Heroism is up your ghouls get a percentage of your buffs. That doesn't apply to hero as well? I was also told that using my Ghoul was "a waste of time" by a DK in Regen. He's doing FL Heroics so I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Only reason I stopped using it frequently. I always saw it as added DPS if nothing else.

Illundai · 09/17/11, 3:05 PM

Ghouls do significant damage over time actually, so that DK is either dumb or was trolling you. For example take our Ragnaros kill this week: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

My Ghoul did 600k damage, yes Ragnaros is a long boss but I'd say that's quite significant. Just make sure that you use Pillar of Frost first. Using a Ghoul without PoF first is a big no no. Ideally you line it up with other STR procs as well.