Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 11

Tyvi · 04/08/12, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Otou

As far as the pet AI, I don't know if anything can be done with it. It's a guardian, and they're defaulted to the assist player function. The only way to change that would be a pet bar, and to manually control it. For only 12 seconds of rune weapon that feels awkward, plus you wouldn't be able to have a ghoul and rune weapon up at the same time.

Well, all they need to do is go back to how DRW worked in the Cata Beta where it would show up as a debuff on the mob you casted it on. I remember DRW never going on the wrong target with this method and I don't know why this was changed to begin with (it could miss, yes, but it's trivial to reduce the hit needed for it to work to something reasonable or just 0%).

Would solve pretty much every problem we have with DRW right now.

Otou · 04/11/12, 3:00 AM

Originally Posted by MMO-Champion

Death Knight (Forums / Talent Calculator)
•Death Strike - Now cannot be parried.
•Horn of Winter - Duration increased to 5 min, up from 2.
•Necrotic Strike - Now does 100% weapon damage, up from 50%.

Death Knight - Talents
•Blood Tap - Now generates 2 (was 1) Blood Charges, up to a maximum of 10 (was 6). Blood Tap consumes 5 Blood Charges, up from 3.
•Conversion - Runic Power generation is reduced by 50% while Conversion is active, up from 30%.
•Death Siphon - Now does 6,917 to 8,039 damage, up from 1,869.

Death Knight - Major Glyphs
•Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon - Increases your threat generation by 100% while your Dancing Rune Weapon is active, but reduces its damage dealt by 25%. No longer reduces the parry chance gained by 5%.
•Glyph of Mind Freeze - Now reduces the cooldown of your Mind Freeze ability by 2 sec instead of increasing interrupt duration.
•Glyph of Shifting Presences - You retain 80% of your Runic Power when switching Presences, up from 50%.

Death Knight - Minor Glyphs
•Glyph of the Geist - Your Raise Dead spell summons a geist instead of a ghoul. Replaced Glyph of Blood Tap.
•Glyph of Horn of Winter - When used outside of combat, your Horn of Winter ability causes a brief, localized snow flurry. No longer increases duration.

Couple of these seem like tooltip changes, but I'm glad to see that DS can't be parried.

Blood Tap change seems interesting, making it's overall rune regen similar to corruption and empowerment. Still not thrilled with the fact that you can only store 2 refreshes, rather than 3.

Conversion changes are starting to feel awkward. 50% runic power generation cut is probably "Ok", but if there are still problems, the solution would be reducing frost presence or MotFW's runic generation.

Death Siphon seems great for the dps dks now, previously the damage and healing scaling was rather weak.

The current "Rune Weapon increases threat generation" glyphs seem pretty pointless though. Unless tank threat modifiers are changed, no one needs a threat increase. Even then, with hit/exp having survival value, I dobut any tank will be lacking threat generation.

krekot · 04/11/12, 7:52 AM

Death Strike - Now cannot be parried.

Is great for tank, but how big soft cap for exp/hit is in mop in % and rating?

Charybdis · 04/11/12, 8:55 AM

Blood Tap's return is 40% now instead of 33%, which is a decent enough start to making it more useful. I agree it is a shame that it can't go to 3, but it still has uses as is.

I agree, the DRW glyph is pretty well worthless. Blizzard has caved and said threat should be trivial except the first few seconds, thus gaining extra threat really doesn't make sense. Increasing its damage isn't much of an option, though increasing its duration and lowering the parry contribution or vice versa might make it worth a glyph slot to some.

Shifting Presences might indicate DKs could get a stance dance mechanic like Arms has. I'm not sure if that will fly, but we'll see how it goes. I could foresee 2h Frost having that and do well with it.

I don't think wowhead's tooltip for conversion is accurate. 100 RP per second for 3% per second? Not happening. Frenzied Regeneration caps at 30% health for 60 rage, so I'd expect something similar for DKs. It'll require more RP since we generate more of it than bears do rage, but 100 per second is unusable. 20 per I can see at the high end.

I chuckled when I saw the changes to Glyph of Horn of Winter. It's a fun glyph I know I'll be getting.

Yörgle · 04/13/12, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by krekot

Death Strike - Now cannot be parried.

Is great for tank, but how big soft cap for exp/hit is in mop in % and rating?

In MoP, you'll need to reach the dodge cap for the expertise to reduce parry. (3%)
So basically, over 3%, expertise will be much less useful.

Source : Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes - World of Warcraft

Titus Pullo · 04/13/12, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by Yörgle

In MoP, you'll need to reach the dodge cap for the expertise to reduce parry. (3%)
So basically, over 3%, expertise will be much less useful.

Source : Dev Watercooler – Mists of Pandaria Stat Changes - World of Warcraft

That's for equal level creatures. Boss level creatures will require 7.5% expertise.

Tyvi · 04/15/12, 2:29 PM

Death Strike not being able to be parried is a good change for us. Now with Scent of Blood, Outbreak, Death Strike and even Rune Strike benefiting from hit and exp dodge capping I think that is what we will do for MoP. Or, at the very least, that is what I will do because I like my Death Strikes hitting consistently.

The new Blood Tap still has the same problem it had before: 5 Rune Strikes inbetween being able to convert the charges into a Death Strike is too much.

I wrote up more about these topics in this blog post here: http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/5379-t...g_patch_15589/

Otou · 04/16/12, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Tyvi

The new Blood Tap still has the same problem it had before: 5 Rune Strikes inbetween being able to convert the charges into a Death Strike is too much.

The concern is probably "How hard can you push blood tap before it becomes mandatory?".

The current blood tap is saying, "You won't have terrible rng with your regen, but it'll always be slower".

Not exactly a fun thing to hear, when the other two options have a fair chance at "good" rng, where you get back to back procs.

I guess the next step above this, is to have every runestrike/deathcoil/froststrike generate 9 charges, blood tap consume 20, and have a maximum hold of 60?
(Displaying this in the UI sounds like a nightmare though.)

With that, it'd be equal to RE/RC regen chance, and every 2-3 runic dumps would guarantee you a rune. I think that all of the regen talents should have an equal "chance" of occuring, even if blood tap's chance is a guaranteed one.

Originally Posted by Tyvi

I wrote up more about these topics in this blog post here: http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/5379-t...g_patch_15589/

Good post, but I imagine the reason death siphon is hitting harder than heart strike/scourge strike, is that we don't have 87 weapons in beta yet.

The damage on 2h weapons is about double what it is on live, so having level 87 base stats without a weapon is probably skewing the numbers.

Something like Shado-Pan Monastery - Str Melee Mace2H, would probably move hs/ss damage ahead again.

aoira · 04/16/12, 10:48 PM

One thing I have noticed with beta vs live is the difference that running RC instead of RE as Frost.

RC increases your rune regen regardless of whether both runes of a pair are down, this means that you can spend a bit less time worrying over whether both of the pair are down before you hit FS without losing the proc.

In an aoe situation where we would have been keeping both death and frost on cd and leaving unholy up to force RE to proc for a HB this would be a drawback but for single target I am finding that I can stay in Frost Presence and not suffer from either rune or RP starvation being effectively GCD capped.

Neepall · 04/22/12, 5:52 AM

Originally Posted by Charybdis

Shifting Presences might indicate DKs could get a stance dance mechanic like Arms has. I'm not sure if that will fly, but we'll see how it goes. I could foresee 2h Frost having that and do well with it.

Honestly from what I can tell so far of all the hours I have spent testing so far; 2h doesn't really seem a need to stance dance. In UP it does amazingly well with its resources, and in FP there is so much waste. Being flooded and no damage boost anymore it does not seem worth while.

For dw on the other hand feels better swapping around from time to time. Some of this being contributed to Rime Procced Howling Blasts not giving any runic power on beta atm or not having a constant rp gain from butchery. Leaving much dead time and starvation in up; fp feels about what it does on live atm with RE fairly predictable and smooth. (rc felt better in up than re, but in fp re seems to just feel better to me at least).

Things could change a whole lot between now and then too, as well though, specially with atm only being level cap at 87. The glyph is good though for those of us that tend to fat finger BP, randomly from time to time, at least. >.>

dalavita · 04/23/12, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Tyvi

Death Strike not being able to be parried is a good change for us. Now with Scent of Blood, Outbreak, Death Strike and even Rune Strike benefiting from hit and exp dodge capping I think that is what we will do for MoP. Or, at the very least, that is what I will do because I like my Death Strikes hitting consistently.

The new Blood Tap still has the same problem it had before: 5 Rune Strikes inbetween being able to convert the charges into a Death Strike is too much.

I wrote up more about these topics in this blog post here: http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/5379-t...g_patch_15589/

I assume with the non-parrying change that Death Strike will now need to hit to heal again, which is a shame for PVP purposes.

Charybdis · 04/25/12, 8:32 AM

Tier 14 bonuses are up, and they're all both simple and effective.

Originally Posted by MMO-Champion

Item - Death Knight T14 Blood 2P Bonus - New: Reduces the cooldown of your Vampiric Blood ability by 20 sec.
Item - Death Knight T14 Blood 4P Bonus - New: Increases the healing received from your Death Strike by 10%.
Item - Death Knight T14 DPS 2P Bonus - New: Your Obliterate deals 20% increased damage and your Scourge Strike deals 10% increased damage.
Item - Death Knight T14 DPS 4P Bonus - New: Your Pillar of Frost ability grants 5% additional Strength, and your Unholy Frenzy ability grants 10% additional haste.

In ability news, three new things are of note:

Originally Posted by MMO-champion

Purgatory [NYI] *New* - An unholy pacts grants you the ability to fight on through damage that would kill mere mortals. When you would sustain fatal damage, you instead are wrapped in a Shroud of Purgatory, absorbing incoming healing equal to the amount of damage prevented, lasting 3 sec. If Shroud of Purgatory runs its course, you die. If it is removed through healing before its expiration, you survive. This effect may only occur every 2 minutes.

Plague Leech *New* - Draw forth the infection from an enemy, consuming your Blood Plague and Frost Fever diseases on the target to activate a random fully-depleted rune as a Death Rune. 30 yd range, Instant, 25 sec cooldown.

Glyph of Outbreak - Your Outbreak spell no longer has a cooldown, but now costs 40 Runic Power.

Purgatory is fairly powerful, but seemingly balanced due to its really short duration and the fact that it absorbs healing to negate the previous fatal blow. It's just long enough to get a couple death strikes in, but because it absorbs healing I don't think it'll give a shield unless actual healing happens. Definitely an interesting choice compared to AMZ and lichborne.

Plague Leech will have some interesting uses, but we'll need to math it out to see which situation it might be most useful on. The only time I can think of it being a DPS increase is if diseases are about to expire and outbreak is up for a PL > Outbreak to gain a death rune and refresh diseases at the same time.

Glyph of Outbreak means it probably won't be used on pull (unless 2p T12 sticks around), but can be used as needed mid fight. It seems like an interesting choice and one we'll need to math out whether it's a DPS increase to spend 40 RP and 1 GCD instead of two runes and 2 GCD's to refresh diseases.

The interaction between Plague Leech and Glyph of Outbreak has me curious. Would it be worth it when disease are about to expire to PL > Outbreak with the glyph? It's essentially refreshing diseases and pulling up a death rune for a couple GCD's and 40 RP. On continuous single target it might not be worth it, but on target swaps I can definitely see this getting used.

Tyvi · 04/25/12, 10:18 AM

Glyph of Outbreak and Plague Leech just became mandatory for Blood. No other way around it and I really dislike it. It removes out choice in Tier 1 because we lost our 30 sec Outbreak which allowed us to do so (ironically, in the same patch Tier 7 got it's damage component removed to give DPS a choice). I am also baffled why we are still the only tank that needs to use their active mitigation resources to keep up tanking debuffs.

I am really not a fan of mandatory talents or glyphs at all. Before we had 2 viable choices with Roiling Blood and Unholy Blight and all glyph slots. Now we are much worse off (and I really don't understand why Glyph of Outbreak replaced Glyph of Blood Boil which was a useful glyph to begin with; why not just add it as a seperate glyph?)

The Blood Tap change is a step in the right direction, but it's not enough. You only reduced the burst window from 5 Rune Strikes to 4 (see http://elitistjerks.com/blogs/5379-t...nic_Corruption for more information).

Otou · 04/25/12, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Charybdis

It's just long enough to get a couple death strikes in, but because it absorbs healing I don't think it'll give a shield unless actual healing happens.

Plague Leech will have some interesting uses, but we'll need to math it out to see which situation it might be most useful on. The only time I can think of it being a DPS increase is if diseases are about to expire and outbreak is up for a PL > Outbreak to gain a death rune and refresh diseases at the same time.

Glyph of Outbreak means it probably won't be used on pull (unless 2p T12 sticks around), but can be used as needed mid fight. It seems like an interesting choice and one we'll need to math out whether it's a DPS increase to spend 40 RP and 1 GCD instead of two runes and 2 GCD's to refresh diseases.

Blood shield ignores healing increases / decreases in general, and it already works through necrotic strike. Should work fine with Purgatory's de-buff.

Plague leech is effectively a blood tap that will eat your last disease tick, it'd be used in the same way we do blood tap on live.

Because frost and blood currently have plenty of runic power (beta SoB, frost presence, MotFW), it's a pretty clear advantage to apply diseases with the glyph. It's a mandatory glyph slot for blood, and a definite "No" for unholy (it can't afford the runic cost, plus passive disease up keep).

The questionable point would be frost using plague leech to apply blood plague, instead of glyphed outbreak.

Originally Posted by Tyvi

Glyph of Outbreak and Plague Leech just became mandatory for Blood. No other way around it and I really dislike it. It removes out choice in Tier 1 because we lost our 30 sec Outbreak which allowed us to do so (ironically, in the same patch Tier 7 got it's damage component removed to give DPS a choice). I am also baffled why we are still the only tank that needs to use their active mitigation resources to keep up tanking debuffs.

Yep. The blood boil and pestilence glyphs should really be baseline though.

Otou · 04/26/12, 10:09 AM

I would add that plague leech isn't mandatory for blood. It's more that it has good synergy with the blood tap and runic empowerment talents. The extra death rune is good in combination with the single runes level 75 talents produce.

If you picked up runic corruption instead, plague leech isn't as important because of your uniform rune regen rates. With runic corruption, it would be viable to take unholy blight (40 second diseases every 90 seconds) as a secondary disease application instead.