Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06/13/12, 5:47 AM   #181
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
That's some pretty great changes, especially for Blood. I wonder if the removal of Runic Power Mastery from Frost Presence means it is gone for good or if they will now make it a glyph for us instead. I would be quite happy if the latter was the case.

If they wanted to stop weapon swapping, it would be a pretty simple fix: Just make MotFW and it's equivalent only work after 10 secs (or something) when you equip a new weapon. Basically like how Feral T13 works right now for Frenzied Regen.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/17/12, 10:53 PM   #182
Otou
Piston Honda
 
Otou's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Looks like MMO-C didn't pick up on the the Runic Corruption change this patch.

Runic Corruption's duration, is now always equal to 0.3 of your rune cooldown. (0.3 * Rune Speed)


Previously, in Beta, it's base 3 second duration was being reduced by haste %. (3 / (1 + haste %))
This was done to prevent RC from becoming stronger with haste (like it does on live, with a static 3 seconds).
This meant that it was slightly stronger than intended for Blood, because Improved Blood Presence's 20% rune speed isn't actual haste.
It also meant that 10% attack speed and 5% spell haste buffs reduced RC's duration, but did not reduce our actual rune cooldown.

Now RC is always equal to 0.405 of a rune, reguardless of your spec or haste buffs.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/21/12, 10:15 AM   #183
Otou
Piston Honda
 
Otou's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Interesting UI change this patch. Death Strike's icon now displays the number of Scent of Blood stacks while on the action bar.



This gives us an easier way to see how many stacks of SoB we have. Since there are currently no addons allowed in Beta, it's a pretty solid improvement to the default UI.



Bastion of Glory / WoG for paladins also recieved the same treatment, so I'm sure there are more cases where this UI change has been / will be applied.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/21/12, 11:41 AM   #184
krekot
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Oh I like it. It was hard a bit for me to look on buffs, health bar me and enemy and cooldowns on bars in one time

Poland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/23/12, 5:37 PM   #185
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
According to this post, bosses ignore vastly more avoidance in MoP than they do in Cata. With -1.5% parry, dodge and miss per level above you we are looking at 13.5% less avoidance against boss mobs. That is pretty huge compared to now (which is like -1.8% IIRC).

On the flipside, Strength apparently gives more Parry rating in MoP than it does now but it is probably not going to compensate for that completely. In terms of gearing, this pretty much rules out avoidance stacking in the first tier atleast. Maybe in the latter tier, with more Str available, this might change but even that is doubtful.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/12, 12:31 PM   #186
Otori
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Azralon
Originally Posted by Tyvi View Post
On the flipside, Strength apparently gives more Parry rating in MoP than it does now but it is probably not going to compensate for that completely.
STR no longer gives parry rating, but straight out Parry, in line with agility and dodge.

GC quote:

The amount of base dodge and parry you get changed, as well as the diminishing returns curves. Our previous blog post on hit table chances includes the base chances. Additionally, Strength gives a significant parry chance directly (just like Agility gives dodge chance), rather than giving a small amount of parry rating.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 06/27/12, 4:24 PM   #187
Virtuousone
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Area 52
Mistaken

Last edited by Virtuousone : 06/27/12 at 7:38 PM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/14/12, 5:22 AM   #188
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Blood Tap is now has a 1.0 sec GCD which is quite terrible for Blood. The minimum time to get a free DS went from 5 GCDs (5xRS) to 7 GCDs (5xRS + 2 BT GCDs). This is simply too much to use BT reactively. While 5 GCDs was borderline, it had the advantage of being off the GCD and that you could even plan around it proactively for a few things (DS twice in a row for predictable burst for example) but that is pretty much nerfed now as well with the 2 sec delay since that will drop atleast one swing out of the heal window (the swing right after your first DS will get fully absorbed so it doesn't contribute to the second DS).

I realize the nerf was done because people macro'd Blood Tap but this really is not the way to fix this. It breaks BT for one of the specs that legitimately benefitted from it's reactive use (sure, you could macro for trivial content but it was DPS specs that benefitted from this the most).
Last I read, BT was already slightly worse than RC/RE in terms of DPS boost for Unholy (and I assume Frost is similar), so that makes this even more baffling. If they want us to fill in some free GCDs, they could always give us Crimson Scourge back (modified to give you either a free Heart Strike or Blood Boil so you can choose for multi- and single-target). Or just leave things as it is, free GCDs every now and then aren't a big deal either way.

With how things currently stand, I will most likely not spec BT anymore and just stick with RC because that never unsync's my Runes even if it offers slightly less D/FU Runes per min (not that this is always the best criteria but it's probably the easiest to understand). It also has the benefit of potentially proccing twice in a row which will grant you a nice survival boost whereas BT would not since it does not rely on procs. And for situations where you want to double DS, you can do that too with faster Rune regen and without the hassle of monitoring Blood Tap stacks and requiring 2 GCDs to do so; you have to plan around it either way which rather devalues the benefit BT had when it was still off the GCD.

Get rid of the macro in a different way please, so BT actually remains a viable option for Blood.

---

I am also still waiting for the Weakened Blows buff for DKs that GC alluded to in one of his posts:

We recognize that DKs (and to a much much lesser extent warriors) currently need to sacrifice their tanking performance in order to put up Weakened Blows, and are looking at some possible solutions to that issue. We’re currently trying out a change where the Scarlet Fever passive for Blood DKs also makes Blood Boil refresh your diseases on targets it hits, but are exploring other options as well. With warriors it's trickier, but one option is to have Thunder Clap generate a tiny bit of rage. It might be fine for warriors as is though.
I really hope this will still come to pass even if it did not happen yet for this patch because this would be an awesome buff for us.

PS: Soul Reaper costing a Blood Rune for Blood spec is all kinds of awesome. So is the fact that one DS actually beats one HS in terms of damage though I don't quite understand why they had to nerf HS instead of just buffing DS. I didn't think Blood DPS was high.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/15/12, 12:18 AM   #189
Otou
Piston Honda
 
Otou's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Tyvi View Post
PS: Soul Reaper costing a Blood Rune for Blood spec is all kinds of awesome. So is the fact that one DS actually beats one HS in terms of damage though I don't quite understand why they had to nerf HS instead of just buffing DS. I didn't think Blood DPS was high.
Since Soul Reaper costs a Blood Rune now, they probably have to balance around Blood using it during the execute phase. (we certainly weren't balanced around it before)

Heart Strike hitting so hard also caused a problem in relation to Blood Boil. The older 3 target Heart Strike cleave, would've hit almost as hard as 7 of the Blood Boils in this build. It's pretty out of place when your "single target ability", hits harder than Blood Boil during aoe. With the current scaling, Blood Boil is better than Heart Strike at 5 targets, like we've come to expect.

This build also brought the new pet scaling to our Bloodworms. They seem to have recieved a slight health and damage increase, but more importantly they now inherit our hit and expertise. This means they'll be stacking up Blood Gorged much faster, and Blood Burst should heal for considerably more.

As an aside, Dancing Rune Weapon learned Death Sihpon and Soul Reaper, but still cannot use: Roiling Blood, Unholy Blight, or Asphyxiate. One small step I guess.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 1:11 AM   #190
SellionEU
Glass Joe
 
SellionEU's Avatar
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Outland (EU)
Hey,
how well do you guys think Purgatory will work? I'm still having problems picturing it being better than AMZ. Unless an Impale-like attack, won't it just be like a "lesser" Guardian Spirit? Especially for 10m, where you can't assign 1-2 healers to heal the absorb up. Of course, the amount to be healed will be lower in 10m than 25m, but still, at some point you won't be able to sacrifice 1-2 healers out of the ordinary 3, whilst in 25m you should be able to assign at least 1 healer out of the ordinary 5-6 to heal the absorb.

Still, might be a good save in some cases but I think I will go for AMZ on most fights and pick Purgatory only where there are Impale-like abilities. (Given that the fights indeed contains heavy magical damage.)

Sweden Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 4:08 AM   #191
Otou
Piston Honda
 
Otou's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by SellionEU View Post
Hey,
how well do you guys think Purgatory will work? I'm still having problems picturing it being better than AMZ. Unless an Impale-like attack, won't it just be like a "lesser" Guardian Spirit? Especially for 10m, where you can't assign 1-2 healers to heal the absorb up. Of course, the amount to be healed will be lower in 10m than 25m, but still, at some point you won't be able to sacrifice 1-2 healers out of the ordinary 3, whilst in 25m you should be able to assign at least 1 healer out of the ordinary 5-6 to heal the absorb.

Still, might be a good save in some cases but I think I will go for AMZ on most fights and pick Purgatory only where there are Impale-like abilities. (Given that the fights indeed contains heavy magical damage.)
Purgatory would be the fall back talent, for when you can't make use of the other two:
  • If the encounter has significant magic damage, AMZ will be better. Stopping the damage will be better than soaking it and trying to heal it off.
  • Similarly, if the encounter let's you often take advantage of Lichborne Death Coils, Lichborne is better.
  • In a situation where you can't make use of AMZ / Lichborne, or the encounter is focused around tank killing damage, Purgatory is better.

Also keep in mind that Purgatory won't be very effective vs "I didn't get heals" situations.
  • If healers aren't able to keep up with the damage, you'll die anyway, because Shroud of Pugatory will expire.
  • If you just barely heal the de-buff off before the 3 seconds end, you lose the immunity to death effect (which is the de-buff itself). This means the next hit you take will likely kill you.

The only reliable way to come back from activating Purgatory, is a large healing cooldown. You'll need something like a Void Shift or Lay on Hands everytime it happens.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 5:09 AM   #192
naliel
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Otou View Post
Purgatory would be the fall back talent, for when you can't make use of the other two:
  • If the encounter has significant magic damage, AMZ will be better. Stopping the damage will be better than soaking it and trying to heal it off.
  • Similarly, if the encounter let's you often take advantage of Lichborne Death Coils, Lichborne is better.
  • In a situation where you can't make use of AMZ / Lichborne, or the encounter is focused around tank killing damage, Purgatory is better.

Also keep in mind that Purgatory won't be very effective vs "I didn't get heals" situations.
  • If healers aren't able to keep up with the damage, you'll die anyway, because Shroud of Pugatory will expire.
  • If you just barely heal the de-buff off before the 3 seconds end, you lose the immunity to death effect (which is the de-buff itself). This means the next hit you take will likely kill you.

The only reliable way to come back from activating Purgatory, is a large healing cooldown. You'll need something like a Void Shift or Lay on Hands everytime it happens.
For dps dks Purgatory wont matter that much. Although you may save yourself by using deathpact after it procs, AMS already protects us from most aoes and if you dont make really big mistakes you shouldnt die before the rest of the other dealers is already dead. It may have its uses but personally i will choose amz in 9/10 cases to provide some raid support.

I can see it having its uses beeing a tank, thinking about encounters with huge burst like t11 chimaeron, t12 baleroc etc.

Last edited by naliel : 07/19/12 at 5:21 AM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 7:00 AM   #193
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Personally, I see that CD being used more proactively than reactively in general gameplay. If you know some big burst damage is incoming but you cannot use your normal damage reduction CDs on it, get out your ghoul and wait for the burst to land. Then use Death Pact and ERW to Death Strike away the shield (the 1.0 sec GCD will stay especially useful here provided it does not get changed). If you can let a Paladin or Priest in your group know in advance that this will happen so they can throw in their CDs as well, all the better.

I could also see it getting used on something like pre-nerf Baleroc who could pretty much global a DK inbetween heals. Purgatory would give you a small cushion to deal with it since heals are going to land regularily and if you avoid some hits or reactively use CDs you might survive. On the other hand, if there is a boss like Baleroc again, deciding which talent in tier 2 to pick will be the least of our worries.


Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 1:09 PM   #194
Wakez
Von Kaiser
 
Wakez's Avatar
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Given that most raid encounters so far in Mists seem to be quite magic damage heavy, I still think Purgatory will have its uses as you are likely able sustain yourself, especially as long as your Death Pact isn't on cooldown. (With the VB glyph Death Pact now heals for 70% of your health and is off the GCD with no resource cost.)

It's really just a shame that in most situations there won't be a personal choice between Purgatory and AMZ as the latter is quite a powerful raid cooldown if used properly.

Sweden Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 07/19/12, 5:07 PM   #195
Otou
Piston Honda
 
Otou's Avatar
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Wakez View Post
(With the VB glyph Death Pact now heals for 70% of your health and is off the GCD with no resource cost.)
Keep in mind that any hp percentage based heal, heals for 2.6% more with un-glyphed VB than glyphed. Un-glyphed would heal for 72% of your real health.

From the testing so far, it does seem that several encounters will be favoring AMZ useage:

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Death Knights

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pet DPS specs Aeson Hunters 6 05/09/09 8:49 PM
Viability of PvP Specs in PvE. cynful Class Mechanics 38 04/30/07 11:21 AM
Off-specs and TBC Mearis Public Discussion 53 11/16/06 1:10 PM