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Old 07/21/12, 5:01 AM   #196
Malacar
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Разувий (EU)
Purgatory is currently much better then what you would expect from the tooltip: when it procs, you get a 3 second buff that doesn't let you die until it runs out. Though it will probably get fixed.

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Old 07/21/12, 5:29 AM   #197
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Malacar View Post
Purgatory is currently much better then what you would expect from the tooltip: when it procs, you get a 3 second buff that doesn't let you die until it runs out. Though it will probably get fixed.
I don't think that particular bit will get changed or fixed. What you are describing has been working since the first iteration of the talent and any damage you take with the debuff up gets added to the absorb shield. You still have to heal up the deficit or you die so it's not like the 3 second debuff makes you invincible or anything (well, technically it does but only for those 3 seconds ).


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Old 07/21/12, 7:29 AM   #198
Otou
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Malacar View Post
Purgatory is currently much better then what you would expect from the tooltip: when it procs, you get a 3 second buff that doesn't let you die until it runs out. Though it will probably get fixed.
That's not quite how it works.

When Purgatory activates, you get a 3 second de-buff called Shroud of Purgatory. This de-buff protects you from dieing. So long as this de-buff is active, any overkill damage will be added to the de-buff as a healing absorbtion effect. If you don't heal off the Shroud de-buff, and the entire 3 seconds go by, you're instantly killed.
Click Here ← Click Here
[12:09:09.057] Otou afflicted by Shroud of Purgatory from Otou (Remaining: 3982)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13160)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11204)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10411)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12015)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12452)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13494)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling crits Otou *1* (O: 25950)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11179)
[12:09:09.277] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11372)
[12:09:09.477] Krik'thik Hiveling crits Otou *1* (O: 27962)
[12:09:09.727] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13721)
[12:09:09.727] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12901)
[12:09:09.727] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12779)
[12:09:10.127] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13171)
[12:09:10.127] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11052)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11701)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12581)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13681)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10430)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling crits Otou *1* (O: 21400)
[12:09:10.907] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12753)
[12:09:10.997] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11903)
[12:09:11.257] Krik'thik Hiveling crits Otou *1* (O: 21174)
[12:09:11.257] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13647)
[12:09:11.257] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10541)
[12:09:11.257] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 12427)
[12:09:11.257] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13294)
[12:09:11.447] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10680)
[12:09:11.697] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10634)
[12:09:11.777] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10994)
[12:09:11.777] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 13814)
[12:09:11.777] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 10358)
[12:09:11.947] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 14349)
[12:09:12.047] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11278)
[12:09:12.047] Krik'thik Hiveling hits Otou 1 (O: 11722)
[12:09:12.047] Otou killed Otou with Purgatory
[12:09:12.047] Otou's Shroud of Purgatory fades from Otou (Remaining: 476010)
[12:09:12.447] Otou dies


Now the reason I say that it doesn't work like that, is because you will never see 3 seconds of immortality. The moument you heal the de-buff off, the immortality effect ends, and you're killable again.
Click Here ← Click Here
[06:24:50.560] Otou gains Will of the Necropolis from Otou
[06:24:50.560] Otou gains Will of the Necropolis from Otou
[06:24:50.560] Sahn Tidehunter Water Bolt Otou 58288
[06:24:52.410] Sahn Tidehunter hits Otou 6979 (O: 16403)
[06:24:52.610] Otou afflicted by Perdition from Otou
[06:24:52.610] Otou afflicted by Shroud of Purgatory from Otou (Remaining: 16404)
[06:24:53.531] Otou's Shroud of Purgatory fades from Otou (Remaining: 16404)
[06:24:53.531] Otou Rune Tap Otou +867 (A: 16404)
[06:24:53.531] Otou casts Rune Tap
[06:24:53.531] Otou's Will of the Necropolis fades from Otou
[06:24:54.451] Sahn Tidehunter hits Otou 868 (O: 20257)
[06:24:54.631] Otou's Horn of Winter fades from Otou
[06:24:54.631] Otou's Will of the Necropolis fades from Otou
[06:24:55.051] Otou's Strangulate fades from Sahn Tidehunter
[06:24:55.051] Otou dies

As you can see, the moument I pop Rune Tap, the de-buff is healed off and Shroud fades. Since I healed off the de-buff, I'm no longer immortal, and Sahn Tidehunter's next melee attack kills me. This means that I was only immortal for 0.921 seconds, and died 1.841 seconds after Shroud proc'd.


This is why Purgatory won't be effective vs not being healed and taking small amounts of overkill damage. If Shroud's absorb is small, it will only last an instant thanks to our self heals and hots. Since it only lasted an instant, and our hp is still low, the next hit we take will be fatal.

In encounters with multiple sources of damage (adds, aoe aura, ect.), you're going to instantly heal off Shroud pretty easily. So don't expect Purgatory to be 3 seconds of immortality.

At the same time, taking large amounts of overkill damage still requires you to heal it off. If you get smacked with 400k overkill, it needs to be healed. The damage isn't absorbed and forgotten, it's still there. Also if you take more damage while Shroud is active, it increases the healing needed.

However much damage you take has to be completely healed off in under 3 seconds. At the same time it needs to stabalize your healthpool, so that the next attack won't kill you.

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Old 07/23/12, 8:45 AM   #199
krekot
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Shround of purgotory absorb heals but what happend with abosrbs like disci priest shields? Are they count as heals too? If yes then Death Strike will be better for use than Rune Tap, with 5 stacks SoB single DS will heal more + absorb. Didn't play long on beta but RT don't have gcd and can be push later.

Purgotory will be good for some pvp fights. I don't play a lot pvp but in some situations I die and my opponent have less than 5% hp. One more hit and he will die.

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Old 07/23/12, 11:23 AM   #200
Hamsda
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Speaking from a disc priest pov, heal absorbing effects (like the debuff on spine) generally wont be reduced by absorb effects, but they grant a buffer for the blow(s) after/during those absorb effects. That's why disc has some pros and cons in regards to healing heal absorb effects.
I don't think Blizzard would change anything regarding that behaviour since it always behaved the same. So probably only the real healing effect of ds will help alleviate the purgatory debuff.

There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Old 08/15/12, 7:22 AM   #201
Valhauros
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Some important changes in the latest build (15972). Some buffs to Blood (Crimson Scourge has been brought back) and some nerfs to the rest:

(B) Heart Strike: weapon damage increased by 20% and additional damage by 38%.
(B) Rune Strike: weapon damage increased by 13%.
(B) Vengeance: 2% of unmitigated damage, 20 sec duration, no cap on health %.
(B) Crimson Scourge: increases Blood Boil's damage by 40%. On attacking a target with Blood Plague, 10% chance the next Blood Boil or Death & Decay will be free.

(F) Might of the Frozen Wastes: weapon damage reduced by 20%.

(U) Unholy Might: now increases your Strength by 15%, down from 25%.
(U) Festering Strike: weapon damage reduced by 13%, additional damage by 24%.
(U) Scourge Strike: weapon damage reduced by 16%, additional damage by 29%.

(Class) Death Coil: damage reduced by 15%.
(Class) Death Strike: weapon damage increased by 18%, additional damage by 50%.

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Old 08/15/12, 11:28 PM   #202
Otou
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Valhauros View Post
Some important changes in the latest build (15972). Some buffs to Blood (Crimson Scourge has been brought back) and some nerfs to the rest:

(B) Heart Strike: weapon damage increased by 20% and additional damage by 38%.
(B) Rune Strike: weapon damage increased by 13%.
(B) Vengeance: 2% of unmitigated damage, 20 sec duration, no cap on health %.
(B) Crimson Scourge: increases Blood Boil's damage by 40%. On attacking a target with Blood Plague, 10% chance the next Blood Boil or Death & Decay will be free.

(F) Might of the Frozen Wastes: weapon damage reduced by 20%.

(U) Unholy Might: now increases your Strength by 15%, down from 25%.
(U) Festering Strike: weapon damage reduced by 13%, additional damage by 24%.
(U) Scourge Strike: weapon damage reduced by 16%, additional damage by 29%.

(Class) Death Coil: damage reduced by 15%.
(Class) Death Strike: weapon damage increased by 18%, additional damage by 50%.
Crimson Scourge's damage increase to Blood Boil, was likely accidental (copy pasta spell IDs~). As is, Vengeance allows Blood Boil to surpass Heart Strike damage. Expect it to drop too 20%, or less.

Unholy will also see more damage adjustments.

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Old 08/17/12, 11:14 PM   #203
Gnomeoleon
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Bleeding Hollow
Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.

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Old 08/17/12, 11:18 PM   #204
Astrylian
Rawr
 
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Night Elf Monk
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Gnomeoleon View Post
Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.
Scarlet Fever - Spell - World of Warcraft

Rawr!

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Old 08/18/12, 2:34 AM   #205
gharnef
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
<TM>
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Gnomeoleon View Post
Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.
That's actually Roiling Blood (or whatever the leftmost T1 talent is called). That's been around for a while. And yes, I am talking in situations where there is only one mob.

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Old 08/18/12, 2:53 AM   #206
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by gharnef View Post
That's actually Roiling Blood (or whatever the leftmost T1 talent is called). That's been around for a while. And yes, I am talking in situations where there is only one mob.
Astrylian was right, actually (click the link, the tooltip it shows here is still the Cata one). It's baked into Scarlet Fever and will refresh diseases on anything that gets hit by BB provided they already had diseases on them. Roiling Blood could be made to function like this on multiple targets if you shifted around a little every now and then because the primary target (the BB/Pestilence Beacon so to speak) would not get it's diseases refreshed.


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Old 08/22/12, 1:58 PM   #207
Solluno
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis (EU)
I hope you won't yell at me, but: Is there going to be a clean guide for frost/unholy as there has been in the past. Or in other words has someone decided to do one?

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Old 08/22/12, 9:11 PM   #208
Uspoonybard
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Solluno View Post
I hope you won't yell at me, but: Is there going to be a clean guide for frost/unholy as there has been in the past. Or in other words has someone decided to do one?
A lot of people have been doing number crunches and all that jazz for MoP for frost/unholy and there seems to be a pretty set rotation/priority list for the three: 2h frost, dw frost, and 2h unholy. A great forum I found was here.

DW vs 2h Frost rotation (MoP PvE) GC confirmd - Forums - World of Warcraft


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Old 08/22/12, 11:35 PM   #209
• Jessamy
Struck by Diax's Rake
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
The most recent Unholy Blight theorycrafting post was in April, and was from a tank perspective. All 3 dps models in SimulationCraft assume Plague Leech, but I'm not convinced that's optimal, or at least not universally so.

Over a 5 minute fight, refreshing diseases every 30 seconds looks like this for Frost
 PLUB
0outbreakoutbreak
30plague strikeunholy blight
60leech + outbreakoutbreak
90plague strikeplague strike
120leech + outbreakoutbreak
150plague strikeunholy blight
180leech + outbreakoutbreak
210plague strikeplague strike
240leech + outbreakoutbreak
270plague strikeunholy blight
300endend
Which yields
 rune costrune gaingcd cost
PL5U4D14
UB2U-10
So for a Frost DK, Plague Leech costs 3U and 4gcd compared to Unholy Blight, for a gain of 4D. That's probably worth it for DW, since death runes are worth more than unholy runes. And it's probably not a significant gain either way for 2H. But for an Unholy DK over that same 5m fight, PL costs 3U3F and 7gcd compared to UB, for a gain of 4D. That seems like a loss.

So it appears that DW Frost wants Plague Leech, UH wants Unholy Blight, and 2H Frost can choose either.


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Old 08/25/12, 5:08 AM   #210
HellHamsterr
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to pick Unholy Blight over Plague Leech for any spec, given any AOE scenario, since we are losing at least one death/blood rune for Pestilence (even assuming it transfers 100% of diseases)?

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