Since we are already talking about avoidance:

I just bought [Steadfast Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] and to my surprise this trinket does not put [Relic of Niuzao] on cooldown so you can pop them both at once in addition with DRW for a ~45% avoidance cooldown. That is pretty nice considering some boss debuffs will not apply if you avoid them (and stuff like Snap Bite is avoidable, too).
I am not sure how intended this is, but I hope they don't change it. Adding 45% DR to Army on top of your natural avoidance is pretty great.

Not intended for sure. If it's only the tank trinkets, I don't think anyone will bother to change it though. The vast majority of the dodge is still from the Shado-Pan trinket. A couple seconds of unhittable would be good, but it doesn't break any game mechanics.


For Jin'rokh heroic, the Ionization de-buff can be blocked with AMS. It doesn't target tanks, but the Anti-Magic Shell from symbiosis will also block it. So that'll help out any balance druids in the raid.

Also, in case you missed them, the last 6 bosses are here.

I was just saying that pre-casting AMS, prevents you from soaking the pools. If you have AMS active when you walk into a pool, you're immune to it. Which means you can't absorb the pool, which necessary to clear the platform.

As long as you don't cast AMS before you step into the pool (like while you're tanking Ji-Kun), AMS won't stop you from soaking the pool.

I saw the post but didn't have time to edit the stuff in yet, I'll do it in a bit.
However, I am not exactly sure if glyphing IBF for Hard Stare is the way to go. We also one tanked it so at some point you are on 4-5 stacks for a while before you can get HoP'd and a full duration IBF is really handy for that, especially if you are soaking a beam at 4 stacks. I can certainly put in the recommendation though but this boss was pretty mild as far as casted phyical hits specials go since I actually felt it was working well with our Blood Shield. Part of the reason was that Hard Stare never did increasingly more damage like the other problematic casted hits like Talon Rake plus the fact that it had very accurate timers so you could build a Blood Shield up more often than not for it so you would be healed to full very quickly after the strike and barely take any DoT damage (if at all).

For Primordius Malformed Blood could be bubbled off by my co-tank so I am reasonably sure AMS will also prevent the application but I didn't go out of my way to test this since a high DoT isn't exactly bad for tank DPS. :P
I'll add this for now as well until I get confirmation that it doesn't work for completeness' sake.

Regarding the trinket, Engineering glove tinker (the DPS version atleast) also does not put it on CD but I am not sure how big of a deal that is really. Dodge/Parry/Strength procs are the only thing you would want to use together with the Steadfast trinket anyway so it shouldn't change anything for non-tanks and the tinker still puts your Relic on CD so it's not like you can pop all 3 at once for a bigger boost (it is going to be nice for Engineers once you replace the Relic though).

EDIT: Updated the boss tips. Let me know if there is more to add or you disagree with any of the stuff written in there.
EDIT2: BoP does not remove Ji-Kun's debuffs (Divine Shield only removes Infected Wounds).

I've been using AMZ as a second personal defensive to keep tanking healing to a minimum, especially effective if your group is running the G>R>G>R>G>R>G combo. During my time on the Red head I'm able to AMS the second breath and, if we're not tank swapping at 2 stack, AMZ most of the damage from the 3rd, effectively doubling my AMS.

Would AMZ replicate the function of preventing Debuffs? If so, I could see it being extremely useful on a few of the fights, and even theoretically reducing the role of a secondary tank during certain bosses (Jin'Rokh comes to mind).

Remember that AMZ, while having a very small break limit, absorbs the entire 75% of the hit that breaks it. So, for example, if you're taking a magic hit for 2 million damage, AMZ will absorb 1.5 million, making it in that case, a damn amazing cooldown. Granted, these opportunities are rare, but one example is solo-soaking a static shock on lei shen.

The problem is that it breaks to unwanted damage effects. On the same Lei Shen fight, a lone Diffused Lightning add can be up in the phase transition. That one add can cast chain lightning during a static shock soak, and AMZ is gone. The damage cap is pretty horrid, since almost every encounter has some type of random weak aoe effect. If everyone gets hit by that weak aoe effect, bye-bye AMZ.

It needs to be flat damage reduction, without the absorption cap. Even if it has to reduce significantly less burst damage, the consistent results would be worth it.


That looks like combat log "lag", rather than a bug with Blood Shield. Your Death Strike happened at almost the same time as a melee hit. The server can't go back in time to change your combat log after it's sent you info. It accepted the info that you successfully casted Death Strike, while it was sending the info that the boss melee'd you. The server recognized the Blood Shield fast enough to apply it to the melee swing, but it can't go back in time to change your combat log. So the log shows you being hit for the full amount, even though the server knows otherwise.


The Blood Shield that "disappeared" was probably applied to the 252406 hit at [23:37:23.339], on the server's side.

From [23:37:23.339] to [23:37:26.971], you took 936810 damage, and 0 healing. A total of 4 seconds. You were at full health at [23:37:22.884], marked by the over healing. Death was at [23:37:26.971], with 21405 overkill. You took 0 healing during this time period, and Death Strike'd at [23:37:23.422] (almost the same time as the first melee hit).

I don't think you have 915405 health with just raid buffs quite yet. It makes more sense to assume that you have 720753 raid buffed, and the extra 194652 came from that "disappearing" Blood Shield.

So you died because of no heals / early death strike / static burst + melee combo, rather than Blood Shield being bugged.

figured i'd throw this in here. DPS analysis for using DC instead of RS as a rune dump at high levels of AP after the recent RS buff.

RC's benefit := ppm*(.3*DS+.3*HS)
where RC's ppm is about 7.46 when using RS

and the gain of using DC instead of RS := .75*apm*DC-apm*RS, with apm = 16.6 (from patchwerk sim)

so to find the point at which the damage difference between DC and RS outweighs the loss of t5 talents through the higher RP cost of DC we set it up like this:

loss of t5 talents = damage of DC over whole fight - damage of RS over whole fight

Put in the numbers (and assuming an ilvl 517 shinka)

.25*(7.46*(.3*((19562+(x/14)*3.3)*1.15+681)*1.3*1.07*.985*1.04*(1-.3209)+.3*((19562+(x/14)*3.3)*1.85+923)*1.07*.985*1.04*(1-.3209))) = .75*16.6*(1133+.51*x)*1.02-16.6(((19562+(x/14)*3.3)*1.6)*1.04*(1-.3209))

solve that beast for x and you get x = 220.4k, meaning at AP levels above 220.4k it is a dps gain to use death coil as a your main runic power dump in place of rune strike for an ilvl 517 2h weapon.

Now lets look at it with Death Siphon involved:
RC's benefit := ppm*(.6*DSi+.3*HS)
everything else stays the same, including weapon ilvl.

.25*(7.46*(.3*((19562+(x/14)*3.3)*1.15+681)*1.3*1.04*(1-.3209)+.6*(7478+.34x))) = .75*16.6*(1133+.51*x)-16.6(((19562+(x/14)*3.3)*1.6)*1.04*(1-.3209))
solve for x and you get AP needed = 245.8k

so it's still a gain, just requiring a bit more AP.

It goes without saying that this is a survivability loss (slower Death Strike return from t5), so keep that in mind if you decide to use it in progression.

Here is the same math applied to different ilvl weapons:

Ilvl	AP needed
517	264.9k
522	277.8k
528	294.0k
535	314.0k
541	332.3k

EDIT:
some clarification. You can think of the death siphon value as an upper bound and the death strike value as the lower bound. Obviously you can't spend 100% of your F and U runes on siphon as they have to be converted to D runes first, so even if you use siphon as much as possible your going to get a mix of siphons and strikes. Now factor in that you may not want to spent every D rune on death siphon to stay alive, which further puts the value towards that lower bound. Instead of dynamically trying to figure out what AP you need for DC to become worth it based on the projected strike/siphon ratio in the next ~20 seconds (spoiler alert: that's impossible) you can just assume the upper bound (which is what i used for the table) and never have to worry about it.

small clarification. DK tanks are extremly useful for Ji-kun since we can soak almost unlimited amounts of Feed Pools. The right AMS useage can be complicated to find out so i did a few tests in our progress and decided to share my results.

There are 2 possible ways to soak the Feed Pool without getting the permanent debuff:


1. use it right after you get the first tick of the zone itself to be immune to the Slimed DoT AND the permanent debuff (what dps DKs / druids should do)

2. or stack the Slimed DoT as high as your healers can handle and use AMS shortly before it expires to also not get the permanent debuff. what lets you soak a very high amount of zones per AMS.
This means you move into a zone and do nothing till you soaked it then move to the next one and so on until you have about 3-6 stacks of the Dot. then you wait till its duration is at 1-4 seconds and use AMS. You wont get the permanent Debuff then and can start soaking the next Pools 5-15 seconds later (depends on healers) since your AMS will be ready until you have high stacks again.

Other Notes:

*When you AMS and go into a Pool you will be immune and you will start soaking it after AMS runs out - Never do this since its just a wasted AMS and you get the permanent Debuff. use it AFTER getting damage from the zone as described in method 1

*You cant soak 2 pools at once if they are overlapping. it will soak up one and next one right after, but you will get 2 times the dmg if you stand in both - Just soak 1 after 1 never stand in 2 at the same time

On best trys i soaked up about 60% of all pools in 25 hc mode what is pretty much the same amount as other 25 man raids did with their whole raid what makes DK tanks very strong in this encounter

What's the average vengeance/ap level you guys get? I currently run with a 510 Starshatter. T14 vengeance was peaked at about 150k-175k for fights like solo tanking protectors hc. Haven't really seen that high numbers in the current t15 content (sitting at 11/12 nh) - not accounting for the constant tank swapping. I sit at about 30k AP unbuffed (513 ILevel). How is one supposed to reach those AP values to actually use DC instead of RS?

I've browsed through some of the logs and actually found a couple of DKs already using DC instead of RS. Am I missing something? Or is the incoming Damage (therefore the vengeance) alot higher in 25s?

Those numbers are taking into account the resource gen from T5 talents, and consistently using only Death Coil.

However, if you're generating more runic power then you can spend, you can cast Death Coil anyway. AMS and heroism often end up flooding you with resources. There are also times when you're sitting on Death Strikes, and T5 resources would be meaningless. In these situations, the only thing that matters is the damage per runic power. If you're ever going to hit the runic power cap, Death Coil prevents that runic power from being wasted.

There are also situations where "burst damage" is more important, since Death Coil is usually more damage per gcd than Rune Strike. Then there is the fact that Death Coil is a ranged ability rather than melee, and can be used with Death Siphon to continue dps from a distance.

Regardless, using Death Coil isn't a significant dps gain after the Rune Strike buff, and its basically a survival loss. It's not something you need to worry about using.

Yeah it's definitely interesting how AMS works in this tier. As long as you fully absorb + immune the magic attack that applies the applies a de-buff, your stacks are reset.