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Old 10/22/12, 6:37 PM   #76
rhapso
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blackhand (EU)
Originally Posted by Jestyr991 View Post
With the change to Heart Strike (- ~8.5% dmg) and blood boil (+388% base -8.2% AP Scaling), would it be more advantageous for us to use blood boil on almost any encounter, even including the increased damage from having FF and BP up?
As you can see, the Blood Boil AP scaling has been nerfed almost as much as our Heart Strike damage. Thus the proportion stays roughly the same (at high vengenace levels, +388% basedmg wont make a huge difference).
or short version: If you've been using BB > HS at a certain vengeance level/target number, its gonna be the same now.

The only thing that may change is when you're tanking 3-4 NPCs with low vengeance levels. I'd say BB>HS with 3 and 4 targets, really depends on the vengeance and you may have to check it infight. In the end you still need very high vengeance levels for BB to be superior to HS in a singletarget situation.

Last edited by rhapso : 10/23/12 at 12:41 AM.

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Old 10/23/12, 7:11 AM   #77
Vistana
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Jubei'Thos
For encounter specific tips, I highly recommend suggesting Anti-Magic Zone for Gara'jal. From personal experience, being able to mitigate a full Shadowy Attack is incredible at any stage of the fight, and is a pretty vital part of mapping personal cooldowns for the Heroic encounter, seeing as DK tanks seem worse off in general for it.

Similarly, can anyone explain to me how exactly Anti-Magic Zone works/is coded? From what I've seen, it's half absorb/half pure damage reduction, or perhaps is it just the latter with a cap on how much damage it will reduce? The only reason I ask is that it works on the Shadowy Attacks, which absorbs shouldn't work on...

Also, Gorefiend's Grasp is great for Will of the Emperor, any of the formats. Gripping Emperor's Rages for maximum cleave is fantastic.

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Old 10/23/12, 8:12 AM   #78
Otou
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
The last I checked, AMZ definitely didn't work on shadowy attacks. The damage reduction it provides is an absorb, so the attacks just ingored it.

AMZ does affect the shadow damage from the Shadowy Minions, so maybe thats what you saw?

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Old 10/23/12, 12:54 PM   #79
Reniat
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
AMZ doesn't work on shadowy attacks, similar to AMS and our blood shield because they are all absorbs. Tanking Gara'jal in heroic modes requires an adjusted Death Strike playstyle, placing shields on the melee attack before and after each shadowy attack, preventing your voodoo'd raid members from being two shot. Until they change the fight either through a hotfix to make blood shield work on shadowy attacks (don't hold your breath) or just a flat out nerf, this plus proper cooldown mapping (including externals) is pretty much the only way you can safely tank 25H gara. (not sure about 10m, but from what i hear it isn't nearly as big of an issue)

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Old 10/24/12, 1:55 AM   #80
Vistana
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Jubei'Thos
I am very aware on how to tank Heroic Gara'jal as a Blood DK, that is not the topic in question.

From my PoV tanking it the last few evenings, I have yet to seen a spot where AMZ was placed the instant before a Shadowy Attack followed by myself/Voodoo Dolls taking a chunk of damage. Perhaps my eyes are slow, but I will most definitely be checking my combat logs/battle text for more information during the encounter tonight.

Upon browsing my World of Logs attempts, during a very close attempt, I saw no damage intake during all of my Anti-Magic Zone timers; none at all. I suspected that the logs were being stubborn, but alas I will check again tonight.

I was very sure it worked :<

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Old 10/24/12, 1:58 AM   #81
krekot
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Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Higher avoidance/health should be better than mastery on Gara'jal HC or I not right?

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Old 10/24/12, 3:34 AM   #82
Reniat
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by krekot View Post
Higher avoidance/health should be better than mastery on Gara'jal HC or I not right?
Depends on your playstyle, but if you are following the playstyle i gave above then no. And regardless of your playstyle, effective health is very low of the priority totem pole here, as it doesn't help your voodoo'd raid members at all. Keep enough EH so that you can live, but don't go overboard as this is a very mitigation oriented fight.

As far as avoidance vs mitigation, my playstyle for 25H Gara is very dependent on using Death Strike to control the damage around the shadowy strikes, to make sure that my voodoo partners aren't bursted to death. This means mastery is still VERY important. Avoidance has a certain value here, in that avoidance will work on shadowy attacks and mastery will not, but you can't get enough avoidance to reliably prevent burst damage from a melee+shadow grasp+shadowy attack, making it better to plan for the worst and make sure your partners can survive it by manipulating the damage intake around each shadowy attack with death strike and mastery.

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Old 10/24/12, 4:44 AM   #83
Astrylian
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Stormrage
Effective Health is useless on Gara'jal. Your Voodoo Dolls will die long before you will. Avoid Stamina like the plague.

Rawr!

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Old 10/24/12, 12:47 PM   #84
Vistana
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Astrylian View Post
Effective Health is useless on Gara'jal. Your Voodoo Dolls will die long before you will. Avoid Stamina like the plague.
I personally went for a full Mastery build with trinkets offering avoidance on use (Lessons of the Darkmaster and the Brewfest one, whatever that was called) to give me maximum uptime on some sort of avoidance cooldown, as well as warrrior sacs, DRW and IBF. Getting a full stack of Blood Shield before going into tank and good rune management you can have a Blood Shield up for most (if not all) melee attacks.

Also, I could not confirm whether AMZ worked as I thought it did or not. Every time I used it tonight I either dodged or parried the Shadowy Attack, according to MSBT.

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Old 10/25/12, 10:07 AM   #85
Tekloth
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Wouldn't AMZ and AMS still be useful against the shadowy minions (or w/e they're called) shadow bolts during the final 20% when you can't get to the spirit world to kill them to give healers even a miniscule break? Although it gets broken almost instantly it's still some damage taken off from the healers' shoulders.

And IBF for Will of the Emperor, if you happen to be unlucky enough to get Strength of the Emperor on you and have to dance at the same time? Also Remorseless Winter for the Rages?

Originally Posted by Vistana View Post
Also, Gorefiend's Grasp is great for Will of the Emperor, any of the formats. Gripping Emperor's Rages for maximum cleave is fantastic.
You still have to be careful, because the Rages will lose the fixate for some seconds after they've been rendered unable to reach their target in some way, I've had problems with my rogue getting aggro from the Rages at the start of the encounter after my stuns dropped off the mob.

Last edited by Tekloth : 10/25/12 at 10:14 AM.

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Old 10/26/12, 6:12 PM   #86
CausalXXLinkXx
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Worgen Death Knight
 
Kil'Jaeden
AMZ is very useful to mitigate the damage from the adds below, it definitely beats out the other 2 in that tree by a mile. What our blood DK did was instead of using stam flask (useless on this fight) they were using armor/mastery elixirs, but you could obviously change the armor to parry / dodge.

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Old 10/28/12, 5:37 PM   #87
krekot
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Burning Legion (EU)
With new changes to Death Strike and Death Siphon. First increase damage by 40% and second has reduced AP scaling it is still better for dps to use 2x Death Siphon than 1x Death Strike?

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Old 10/29/12, 8:58 AM   #88
Otou
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Vistana View Post
I personally went for a full Mastery build with trinkets offering avoidance on use (Lessons of the Darkmaster and the Brewfest one, whatever that was called) to give me maximum uptime on some sort of avoidance cooldown, as well as warrrior sacs, DRW and IBF. Getting a full stack of Blood Shield before going into tank and good rune management you can have a Blood Shield up for most (if not all) melee attacks.

Also, I could not confirm whether AMZ worked as I thought it did or not. Every time I used it tonight I either dodged or parried the Shadowy Attack, according to MSBT.
I hopped in LFR to tripple check in case of stealth changes, AMZ doesn't do anything to the shadowy attacks.

If you're going against Gara'jal as a DK, mastery/avoidance are the only things that will be of any help. Even then, the problem is that the Dolls don't have the EH to reliably take 100% of a Blood DK's damage. On 25 Heroic, the damage you'll do to the dolls is impractical to heal through.

The only way to keep it manageable is stacking damage reduction / raid cool downs. You'd need to keep up about 40% damage reduction the entire time you're tanking to remove the chance of the Dolls being gibbed. However, doing this means you're eating all of the external / raid cool downs. Only Bone Shield, IBF, and Army give any benefit to doll targets. So for the entire time you're tanking without IBF, you'd need an external cooldown.

Actually doing this is incredibly impractical. It means your co-tank will have no external cool downs while tanking, and likely that you've consumed all of the raid cool downs. 25 Heroic Gara'jal is the fight where you want to switch to your alt tank as a Blood DK. Particularly, Monks and Warriors are really good for Doll damage (staggering all the melee attacks, or blocking shadowy attacks and melee).

Originally Posted by krekot View Post
With new changes to Death Strike and Death Siphon. First increase damage by 40% and second has reduced AP scaling it is still better for dps to use 2x Death Siphon than 1x Death Strike?
The AP scaling only went from 40% to 34% I think. It depends on how much vengeance you have, but it should still be better damage wise.

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Old 11/14/12, 4:20 PM   #89
mariox
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Orc Death Knight
 
Garithos
Originally Posted by Yavvy View Post
Will Might of Ursoc put you at 15% during Purgatory, or is it counted as a heal?
I'm not sure if this has been answered, but I just tested this. I still died after using might of ursoc when purgatory went off.
Although, it would be useful, as someone else stated, for you to not be one shot after purgatory is healed up. It also synergizes well with your death pact/rune tap.

Last edited by mariox : 11/14/12 at 8:58 PM.

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Old 11/15/12, 7:19 PM   #90
Navres
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Worgen Death Knight
 
Saurfang (EU)
Any of you guys have 4 set bonus already? I just got mine, and it turns out the increased healing from DS does NOT affect blood shield amount. For example, with 143% mastery and DS healing me for 92k I get 120k blood shield, instead of 131K. Needless to say, I'm disappointed. It seemed like a great bonus because of the scaling through mastery, but if it's working as intended right now, then it's worth ~900 mastery. Compared to prot pala 4 set bonus worth ~6k mastery. I didn't find any thread about it anywhere, so I made a ticket and I'll post the answer I get here.
I hope it's a bug, but if it's not, then I will think twice about running with 4 set in the first place, since I can get better itemized offset pieces.

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