Unholy DPS 5.2 | Thunderstruck - Page 2

Matron Heartless · 10/27/12, 12:49 AM

Since the expansion has been out for a bit, if anyone has more new raid strategies to share, I'd love to incorporate them. Additionally, add-on recommendations would also be welcomed.

Usbeorn · 11/30/12, 11:31 PM

Can the cooldowns section be edited to reflect the fact that Unholy Frenzy stacks with Heroism? All this time, I've been wondering why when I screw up and use UF at the same time hero goes out my dps is higher then when I make sure to keep them seperate. =P They stack really nicely too:

Normal: 56.08%
With Unholy Frenzy: 87.30%
With Heroism: 102.90%
With Both: 143.48%

And that's without 4-piece (or raid buffs). =D

• Jessamy · 12/01/12, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Usbeorn

They stack really nicely too.

There are two problems with your premise. First, stacking your haste cooldowns results in more haste while they're active, but yields more time when they're not active, so your average haste ends up about the same either way. Here are your findings:

none 1.5608
UF   (1.5608)(1.2000)=1.8730
lust (1.5608)(1.3000)=2.0290
both (1.5608)(1.2000)(1.3000)=2.4348

But when you account for uptime (source), your average haste becomes

none     1.5608
UF       (1.8730)(0.1918)+(1.5608)(1-0.1918)=1.6207
lust     (2.0290)(0.0902)+(1.5608)(1-0.0902)=1.6030
stacked  (2.4348)(0.0902)+(1.8730)(0.1918-0.0902)+(1.5608)(1-0.1918)=1.6714
separate (2.0290)(0.0902)+(1.8730)(0.1918)+(1.5608)(1-0.1918-0.0902)=1.6629

This is an average increase of 0.85% haste, and is a result of the buffs multiplying while they're stacked. It's not an incredible benefit, but still valuable. However that brings me to the second problem with stacking haste buffs. Haste is valuable for a DK for two reasons. It produces more white attacks (and pet attacks) along with all the things those can proc, and it replenishes our runes faster giving us more resources to use our activated abilities. Bloodlust alone (with haste from gear) should give you enough resources to be gcd-capped. That is, you will always have runes or runic power to use an ability and will never be waiting for something to recharge or come off cooldown. Any additional haste procs or abilities will have less benefit than they would at other times, since they're not giving you any more usable resources during bloodlust, but they would normally.

All that said, there may well be other reasons why your dps increases if you use UF and Lust at the same time. But the haste stacking probably isn't the source of your improvement.

Usbeorn · 12/01/12, 2:05 PM

I suspect it's mainly not for my own benefit, but rather for buffing my ghoul, gargoyle, and army. I make sure all of these are active when I use both hero and UF.

richypc · 12/10/12, 5:46 AM

I also stack them regardless, Le Shins orders with Relic trink with a prepot or late burn phase pot; they all stack with unholy's pets very nicely for a dps gain.

Suppose I do not stack both UF with lust,lets say we lust at start of a fight, 30-40 secs later am I supposed to use UF with all my trinks and enchants on cooldown. Gargoyle unbuffed damage is just so puny it hurts, I can always wait for the next buff alignment, but that brings in another problem with bosses phasing and what not and leaving you holding off on that UF you still haven't used until almost 2 or 3 mins. into the fight can be frustrating, by then you could've just used it twice.

My strat is use it when its up, unless the boss is going to do some crazy phase where it will be immune to attacks.

spambot · 01/01/13, 6:28 PM

After several failed attempts to find someone on the internet to do the work for me, I went and ran some sims on reg Shin'ka(with gem) vs heroic Starshatter. There was plenty of info for frost but none for unholy so, anyway, according to my sims heroic Starshatter is roughly 300dps better. Not really all the surprising, but thought I'd share.

Also while I'm here, as far as raid strats go
ams and lichborne make you immune to breath of fear on Sha of Fear
desecrated ground makes you immune to amber prison on Wind Lord (its worth noting that I don't really know if this prevents you from trapping other people if you're too close as I've never been willing to wipe my raid to find out)
ams makes you immune to visions of demise on Empress (haven't tried lichborne for this one, but it might work too)

mendenbarr · 01/01/13, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by spambot

After several failed attempts to find someone on the internet to do the work for me, I went and ran some sims on reg Shin'ka(with gem) vs heroic Starshatter. There was plenty of info for frost but none for unholy so, anyway, according to my sims heroic Starshatter is roughly 300dps better. Not really all the surprising, but thought I'd share.

Also while I'm here, as far as raid strats go
ams and lichborne make you immune to breath of fear on Sha of Fear
desecrated ground makes you immune to amber prison on Wind Lord (its worth noting that I don't really know if this prevents you from trapping other people if you're too close as I've never been willing to wipe my raid to find out)
ams makes you immune to visions of demise on Empress (haven't tried lichborne for this one, but it might work too)

All these tips and more are available over at the advanced frost thread, which I'm considering making non-spec specific.

As far as the weapons, I ran the sims as well, and I'm getting different results:
I didn't reforge either weapons, or worry about the rest of the gear much, what do you specify as the other inputs?

Here's my code:

← Click Here

#!./simc deathknight="Heroic_sha_wep" origin="unknown" level=90 race=orc spec=unholy role=attack position=back professions=enchanting=600/engineering=600 talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#db!1...0. actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp actions.precombat+=/unholy_presence actions.precombat+=/horn_of_winter actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/army_of_the_dead actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion actions.precombat+=/blood_fury actions.precombat+=/raise_dead actions=auto_attack actions+=/blood_fury,if=time>=2 actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=buff.dark_transformation.up&target.time_to_die<=35 actions+=/unholy_frenzy,if=time>=4 actions+=/use_item,name=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,if=time>=4 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>10&runic_power>=32 actions+=/outbreak,if=dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3 actions+=/unholy_blight,if=talent.unholy_blight.enabled&(dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3) actions+=/soul_reaper,if=target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&(target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35&cooldown.soul_reaper.remains=0) actions+=/icy_touch,if=!dot.frost_fever.ticking actions+=/plague_strike,if=!dot.blood_plague.ticking actions+=/summon_gargoyle actions+=/dark_transformation actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.shadow_infusion.stack=5 actions+=/death_coil,if=runic_power>90 actions+=/death_and_decay,if=unholy=2 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&unholy=2&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/scourge_strike,if=unholy=2 actions+=/festering_strike,if=blood=2&frost=2 actions+=/death_and_decay actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.sudden_doom.react|(buff.dark_transformation.down&rune.unholy<=1) actions+=/scourge_strike actions+=/plague_leech,if=talent.plague_leech.enabled&cooldown.outbreak.remains<1 actions+=/festering_strike actions+=/horn_of_winter actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.dark_transformation.down|(cooldown.summon_gargoyle.remains>8&buff.dark_transformation.remains>8) actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>=8 actions+=/empower_rune_weapon head=helmet_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86915,gems=reverberating_primal_80str_160hit_180str,reforge=hit_crit neck=shackle_of_eversparks,id=90508,reforge=hit_crit shoulders=shoulderpads_of_misshapen_life,id=86986,gems=160str_60str,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste back=hiseks_chrysanthemum_cape,id=86945,enchant=180crit,reforge=haste_crit chest=breastplate_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86913,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160crit_120crit,enchant=80all wrists=bracers_of_defiled_earth,id=90506,enchant=180str,reforge=hit_haste hands=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86914,enchant=170str,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii waist=waistplate_of_overwhelming_assault,id=86955,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160hit_160str_120haste,reforge=mastery_crit legs=greaves_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86916,gems=160str_60str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=mastery_crit feet=impaling_treads,id=86979,gems=80str_160crit_60hit,enchant=175haste,reforge=hit_crit finger1=ring_of_the_bladed_tempest,id=86957,enchant=160str finger2=dread_shadow_ring,id=87158,enchant=160str,reforge=hit_haste trinket1=darkmist_vortex,id=87172 trinket2=relic_of_xuen,id=79327 main_hand=shinka_execution_of_dominion,id=87176,gems=500str,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader #!./simc deathknight="Normal_sha_wep" origin="unknown" level=90 race=orc spec=unholy role=attack position=back professions=enchanting=600/engineering=600 talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#db!1...0. actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp actions.precombat+=/unholy_presence actions.precombat+=/horn_of_winter actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/army_of_the_dead actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion actions.precombat+=/blood_fury actions.precombat+=/raise_dead actions=auto_attack actions+=/blood_fury,if=time>=2 actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=buff.dark_transformation.up&target.time_to_die<=35 actions+=/unholy_frenzy,if=time>=4 actions+=/use_item,name=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,if=time>=4 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>10&runic_power>=32 actions+=/outbreak,if=dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3 actions+=/unholy_blight,if=talent.unholy_blight.enabled&(dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3) actions+=/soul_reaper,if=target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&(target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35&cooldown.soul_reaper.remains=0) actions+=/icy_touch,if=!dot.frost_fever.ticking actions+=/plague_strike,if=!dot.blood_plague.ticking actions+=/summon_gargoyle actions+=/dark_transformation actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.shadow_infusion.stack=5 actions+=/death_coil,if=runic_power>90 actions+=/death_and_decay,if=unholy=2 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&unholy=2&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/scourge_strike,if=unholy=2 actions+=/festering_strike,if=blood=2&frost=2 actions+=/death_and_decay actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.sudden_doom.react|(buff.dark_transformation.down&rune.unholy<=1) actions+=/scourge_strike actions+=/plague_leech,if=talent.plague_leech.enabled&cooldown.outbreak.remains<1 actions+=/festering_strike actions+=/horn_of_winter actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.dark_transformation.down|(cooldown.summon_gargoyle.remains>8&buff.dark_transformation.remains>8) actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>=8 actions+=/empower_rune_weapon head=helmet_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86915,gems=reverberating_primal_80str_160hit_180str,reforge=hit_crit neck=shackle_of_eversparks,id=90508,reforge=hit_crit shoulders=shoulderpads_of_misshapen_life,id=86986,gems=160str_60str,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste back=hiseks_chrysanthemum_cape,id=86945,enchant=180crit,reforge=haste_crit chest=breastplate_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86913,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160crit_120crit,enchant=80all wrists=bracers_of_defiled_earth,id=90506,enchant=180str,reforge=hit_haste hands=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86914,enchant=170str,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii waist=waistplate_of_overwhelming_assault,id=86955,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160hit_160str_120haste,reforge=mastery_crit legs=greaves_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86916,gems=160str_60str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=mastery_crit feet=impaling_treads,id=86979,gems=80str_160crit_60hit,enchant=175haste,reforge=hit_crit finger1=ring_of_the_bladed_tempest,id=86957,enchant=160str finger2=dread_shadow_ring,id=87158,enchant=160str,reforge=hit_haste trinket1=darkmist_vortex,id=87172 trinket2=relic_of_xuen,id=79327 main_hand=shinka_execution_of_dominion,id=86386,gems=500str,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader #!./simc deathknight="Heroic_elegon_wep" origin="unknown" level=90 race=orc spec=unholy role=attack position=back professions=enchanting=600/engineering=600 talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#db!1...0. actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp actions.precombat+=/unholy_presence actions.precombat+=/horn_of_winter actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/army_of_the_dead actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion actions.precombat+=/blood_fury actions.precombat+=/raise_dead actions=auto_attack actions+=/blood_fury,if=time>=2 actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=buff.dark_transformation.up&target.time_to_die<=35 actions+=/unholy_frenzy,if=time>=4 actions+=/use_item,name=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,if=time>=4 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>10&runic_power>=32 actions+=/outbreak,if=dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3 actions+=/unholy_blight,if=talent.unholy_blight.enabled&(dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3) actions+=/soul_reaper,if=target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&(target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35&cooldown.soul_reaper.remains=0) actions+=/icy_touch,if=!dot.frost_fever.ticking actions+=/plague_strike,if=!dot.blood_plague.ticking actions+=/summon_gargoyle actions+=/dark_transformation actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.shadow_infusion.stack=5 actions+=/death_coil,if=runic_power>90 actions+=/death_and_decay,if=unholy=2 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&unholy=2&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/scourge_strike,if=unholy=2 actions+=/festering_strike,if=blood=2&frost=2 actions+=/death_and_decay actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.sudden_doom.react|(buff.dark_transformation.down&rune.unholy<=1) actions+=/scourge_strike actions+=/plague_leech,if=talent.plague_leech.enabled&cooldown.outbreak.remains<1 actions+=/festering_strike actions+=/horn_of_winter actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.dark_transformation.down|(cooldown.summon_gargoyle.remains>8&buff.dark_transformation.remains>8) actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>=8 actions+=/empower_rune_weapon head=helmet_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86915,gems=reverberating_primal_80str_160hit_180str,reforge=hit_crit neck=shackle_of_eversparks,id=90508,reforge=hit_crit shoulders=shoulderpads_of_misshapen_life,id=86986,gems=160str_60str,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste back=hiseks_chrysanthemum_cape,id=86945,enchant=180crit,reforge=haste_crit chest=breastplate_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86913,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160crit_120crit,enchant=80all wrists=bracers_of_defiled_earth,id=90506,enchant=180str,reforge=hit_haste hands=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86914,enchant=170str,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii waist=waistplate_of_overwhelming_assault,id=86955,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160hit_160str_120haste,reforge=mastery_crit legs=greaves_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86916,gems=160str_60str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=mastery_crit feet=impaling_treads,id=86979,gems=80str_160crit_60hit,enchant=175haste,reforge=hit_crit finger1=ring_of_the_bladed_tempest,id=86957,enchant=160str finger2=dread_shadow_ring,id=87158,enchant=160str,reforge=hit_haste trinket1=darkmist_vortex,id=87172 trinket2=relic_of_xuen,id=79327 main_hand=starshatter,id=87061,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader #!./simc deathknight="Normal_elegon_wep" origin="unknown" level=90 race=orc spec=unholy role=attack position=back professions=enchanting=600/engineering=600 talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#db!1...0. actions.precombat=flask,type=winters_bite actions.precombat+=/food,type=black_pepper_ribs_and_shrimp actions.precombat+=/unholy_presence actions.precombat+=/horn_of_winter actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats actions.precombat+=/army_of_the_dead actions.precombat+=/mogu_power_potion actions.precombat+=/blood_fury actions.precombat+=/raise_dead actions=auto_attack actions+=/blood_fury,if=time>=2 actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=buff.dark_transformation.up&target.time_to_die<=35 actions+=/unholy_frenzy,if=time>=4 actions+=/use_item,name=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,if=time>=4 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>10&runic_power>=32 actions+=/outbreak,if=dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3 actions+=/unholy_blight,if=talent.unholy_blight.enabled&(dot.frost_fever.remains<3|dot.blood_plague.remains<3) actions+=/soul_reaper,if=target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&(target.health.pct-3*(target.health.pct%target.time_to_die)<=35&cooldown.soul_reaper.remains=0) actions+=/icy_touch,if=!dot.frost_fever.ticking actions+=/plague_strike,if=!dot.blood_plague.ticking actions+=/summon_gargoyle actions+=/dark_transformation actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.shadow_infusion.stack=5 actions+=/death_coil,if=runic_power>90 actions+=/death_and_decay,if=unholy=2 actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&unholy=2&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/scourge_strike,if=unholy=2 actions+=/festering_strike,if=blood=2&frost=2 actions+=/death_and_decay actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&cooldown.death_and_decay.remains=0 actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.sudden_doom.react|(buff.dark_transformation.down&rune.unholy<=1) actions+=/scourge_strike actions+=/plague_leech,if=talent.plague_leech.enabled&cooldown.outbreak.remains<1 actions+=/festering_strike actions+=/horn_of_winter actions+=/death_coil,if=buff.dark_transformation.down|(cooldown.summon_gargoyle.remains>8&buff.dark_transformation.remains>8) actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&buff.blood_charge.stack>=8 actions+=/empower_rune_weapon head=helmet_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86915,gems=reverberating_primal_80str_160hit_180str,reforge=hit_crit neck=shackle_of_eversparks,id=90508,reforge=hit_crit shoulders=shoulderpads_of_misshapen_life,id=86986,gems=160str_60str,enchant=200str_100crit,reforge=mastery_haste back=hiseks_chrysanthemum_cape,id=86945,enchant=180crit,reforge=haste_crit chest=breastplate_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86913,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160crit_120crit,enchant=80all wrists=bracers_of_defiled_earth,id=90506,enchant=180str,reforge=hit_haste hands=gauntlets_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86914,enchant=170str,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii waist=waistplate_of_overwhelming_assault,id=86955,gems=80str_160crit_80str_160hit_160str_120haste,reforge=mastery_crit legs=greaves_of_the_lost_catacomb,id=86916,gems=160str_60str,enchant=285str_165crit,reforge=mastery_crit feet=impaling_treads,id=86979,gems=80str_160crit_60hit,enchant=175haste,reforge=hit_crit finger1=ring_of_the_bladed_tempest,id=86957,enchant=160str finger2=dread_shadow_ring,id=87158,enchant=160str,reforge=hit_haste trinket1=darkmist_vortex,id=87172 trinket2=relic_of_xuen,id=79327 main_hand=starshatter,id=86140,enchant=rune_of_the_fallen_crusader

Edit: Yes, orc racial is included, I'll try re-running with a belf instead.

I re-ran with undead, changing nothing but the race, and removing blood fury from the rotation.
Same results, but less striking.

spambot · 01/01/13, 11:12 PM

Interesting. I just simmed my current gear and switched out the weapons. Didn't add any reforges or anything.
Did you include the orc racial with Shin'ka?

Turyal · 01/05/13, 7:22 PM

I was overlooking the BiS and im a bit confused about a certain part. Wouldn't it be better to get the legs from MSV that has TONS of haste on them instead of the shoulders? The Tier shoulders got really good stats on them so i don't really understand the means to go for the 4 set with shoulder non-set, instead of the legs non-set. Is it the fact that we loose too much expertise without the Tier legs or something else? A detailed explanation of it all would be very much appreciated.

Would also like to add that on gara'jal, You can use AMZ on the tank instead of the raid as a way to prevent all that shadow dmg done to the tank being spread to everyone with totem on em. This way AMZ wont be used up straight away by 1 wave of shadowbolts from the adds on the raid, and it will prevent that dreaded instant death of raid members when the tank get hits like a truck from both boss shadow kicks and the adds shadowbolts. It really helped us out. Sure you can use it on the raid but i would have to say it is alot better to use it as a tank CD, Atleast before you bring the boss to 20%. AMZ has a 2min cd so its no problem having it back for the last 20% burst phase.

mendenbarr · 01/06/13, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by Turyal

I was overlooking the BiS and im a bit confused about a certain part. Wouldn't it be better to get the legs from MSV that has TONS of haste on them instead of the shoulders? The Tier shoulders got really good stats on them so i don't really understand the means to go for the 4 set with shoulder non-set, instead of the legs non-set. Is it the fact that we loose too much expertise without the Tier legs or something else? A detailed explanation of it all would be very much appreciated.

Would also like to add that on gara'jal, You can use AMZ on the tank instead of the raid as a way to prevent all that shadow dmg done to the tank being spread to everyone with totem on em. This way AMZ wont be used up straight away by 1 wave of shadowbolts from the adds on the raid, and it will prevent that dreaded instant death of raid members when the tank get hits like a truck from both boss shadow kicks and the adds shadowbolts. It really helped us out. Sure you can use it on the raid but i would have to say it is alot better to use it as a tank CD, Atleast before you bring the boss to 20%. AMZ has a 2min cd so its no problem having it back for the last 20% burst phase.

Heartless explains this in the OP

Originally Posted by Matron Heartless

The level 90 BiS list has been slightly tricky. Generally when making a BiS list, we would choose each item per slot based on the highest DPS, list them all out, and reforge it however we desired. There is a problematic trend with this tier though because a lot of high-end pieces have incredibly high cap stat ratings. When I say 'high' I mean 600, 700, 800 hit rating per piece before you even socket the gems. When it takes 2550 rating (at most) to cap melee hit, we run into a serious overcapping issue. It's not any stretch of the imagination that you could end up with ~4000 hit rating if you weren't mindful of it. Yikes, right? So the dilemma is simply this: some items are amazing on an individual basis but they rapidly devalue when viewed within the reality of a full gear set. Therefore, I've selected items that are still excellent (second pick if not the top individual pick) because they give valuable non-cap stats and better socket colors/bonuses. In the end, this allowed for a higher, cumulative DPS potential by reducing as much stat waste as possible.

A sample reforging and gem setup is provided here (via Wowhead). You'll notice that in a few cases, I avoided the socket bonus if it contributed to overcapping hit. Enchants have been eschewed as well as belt buckles. I leave that explanation to my previous data tables for gearing.

The tier legs have expertise and mastery, which while are in no way amazing, don't have hit. Switching to the legs from will adds a fair amount of hit, and requires the tier shoulders, which also have hit on them. It seems well within reason to be around 2550 with an upgrade or two with the OP's BiS list, but taking the non-set legs puts you up to about 3k rating after reforging as much as possible away and before item upgrades, which only make the problem worse.

As far as your second point, a quick trip over to the blood thread shows that, sadly AMZ does nothing for shadowy attacks

Originally Posted by Reniat

AMZ doesn't work on shadowy attacks, similar to AMS and our blood shield because they are all absorbs. Tanking Gara'jal in heroic modes requires an adjusted Death Strike playstyle, placing shields on the melee attack before and after each shadowy attack, preventing your voodoo'd raid members from being two shot. Until they change the fight either through a hotfix to make blood shield work on shadowy attacks (don't hold your breath) or just a flat out nerf, this plus proper cooldown mapping (including externals) is pretty much the only way you can safely tank 25H gara. (not sure about 10m, but from what i hear it isn't nearly as big of an issue)

Turyal · 01/06/13, 7:13 AM

Thanks for the reply! I should probably have given it a more thorough read about the OP part. As for gara jal, I was refering to using it for other tanks and not yourself as a dk. Im unholy dps in our guild and our druid tank really appreciate me using amz on him. If what you say about his shadow attacks can't be absorbed by amz, then it would indeed be better to use it on the raid. It is just that it worked out really well for us.

Charybdis · 01/10/13, 6:10 AM

MMO-C datamined set bonuses:

Item - Death Knight T15 DPS 2P Bonus (New) Your attacks have a chance to raise the spirit of a fallen Zandalari as your Death Knight minion for 15 sec.
Item - Death Knight T15 DPS 4P Bonus (New) Increases the duration of Army of the Dead by 15 sec.

The 2p could work fairly well as-is assuming they get the numbers right and the minion doesn't replace the ghoul or cause other assorted problems.

The 4p has to be a placeholder. Adding more time to a 10 minute CD doesn't change it being a 10 min CD, and them making a set bonus around a typically once-per-fight ability is just plain odd even if the numbers are such that it keeps up with expected DPS bonuses.

Rixin · 01/10/13, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by Charybdis

The 2p could work fairly well as-is assuming they get the numbers right and the minion doesn't replace the ghoul or cause other assorted problems.

IIRC garg, blood worms, frost and blood ghouls are minions the unholy one is a pet. Should work just like army just more little guys following you around doing your bidding

Otou · 01/10/13, 8:37 AM

Originally Posted by Charybdis

The 4p has to be a placeholder. Adding more time to a 10 minute CD doesn't change it being a 10 min CD, and them making a set bonus around a typically once-per-fight ability is just plain odd even if the numbers are such that it keeps up with expected DPS bonuses.

Considering Army does over 50k dps during it's 35~ sec active time, increasing that to 50 seconds is pretty amazing.

It's a lot of damage during that minute of combat, it's just not amazing versus 10 minutes of Patchwerk. However, most fights aren't Patchwerk, and you can usually expect burn phases/damage buffs to take advantage of. It's a really solid 4pc bonus, when you start thinking of creative ways to use it.

Nangz · 01/10/13, 10:15 AM

By my check, its also the first tier bonus since TOC that clearly benefits unholy more than frost.

On the army specific mechanics, the change to tooltip of it lasting 40 seconds isn't a change but just a tooltip description, thus this 4 piece comes down to a 37.5% increase in duration.

Simcraft shows that army deals this much damage per spec.

Spec	Current	4 Piece	Increase
DW Frost BIS:	3.7%	5.0875%	1.3875%
2h Frost BIS:	4%	5.5%	1.5%
Unholy BIS:	5.6%	7.75	2.1%

The number isn't exactly as striking as say, this tier's bonus disparity, however it exists, and it looks nice ^.^

Off the topic of the future tier bonuses and onto current fights i've been experimenting with an opening that seems to differ what i've come to understand is the "common" opening.

Army
Prepot
Pull
Icy Touch
Plague Strike
normal rotation until trinket procs
Outbreak
UF+Gargoyle
normal rotation

Recently i've been switching Prepot and Army in order to get an army buffed by my prepot. This still gives enough time to have my Outbreak and Gargoyle buffed by the pot but i'm curious if the 4 second duration lost by the army channel is worth it vs the 4 extra seconds of rotation under UF as per the opening listed above.

edit: thx for the table format. I nub.