Frost DPS 5.0.4 - The Cold Hand of Death - Page 2

HellHamsterr · 09/04/12, 5:17 AM

For DW frost RE is an absolute must due to rune gaming. Getting more howling blasts per minute completely trumps the need of getting RC for 15% higher uptime of 4 set bonus. For 2H obviously things may (and probably) change.

Sizzurps · 09/07/12, 4:30 AM

I downloaded the latest Simcraft and it recommends DnD on single targets? Or, am I hallucinating?

• MagdalenaDK · 09/07/12, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sizzurps

I downloaded the latest Simcraft and it recommends DnD on single targets? Or, am I hallucinating?

No, you're not hallucinating. As it currently stands, this is the correct priority for DW Frost DKs, assuming you have Blood Plague on the target already.

jiushibujiangli · 09/14/12, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jessamy

"Should I be DW or 2H frost?" is a popular question, and I admit I'm curious about the optimal choice myself. It's easy to find a quick answer by loading the 1H and 2H BiS profiles in simulationcraft and seeing which one has a bigger number. But I thought I'd dig a little deeper and do some side by side comparisons.

Using those profiles, here are all 4 heroic dragon soul weapon choices (reforged for orc axe racial as appropriate):

But what if you (like me) aren't an orc? Since I'm a troll, I ran it again with troll racials:

It's up to 2% difference between DW and 2H frost, depending on what weapons you have available and what race your character is. If you're more comfortable with the 2H rotation and can execute it better, that could make up the difference.

I've seen your dps ranking. But I want to know how many buffs did you set. Only with your own buff or other classes' buffs.

• Jessamy · 09/14/12, 3:03 PM

That's with the simulationcraft default settings, which assume all relevant raid buffs and debuffs. (I did increase iterations to reduce error.) However, that ranking is from several builds ago, and is no longer accurate.

mendenbarr · 09/18/12, 1:02 AM

Considering that gems in MoP now favor secondary stats, in that a bold gem will net you 160 str, yet a quick gem grants you 320 haste, has anyone taken a good look at the value of sockets? Going off basic stat values with 509 gear, it appears that gemming haste in yellow, hit in blue, and expertise in red will be an overall dps increase.

The reason I'm not using hit/expertise weights is that, if cata's trend continues, it will be reasonably easy to cap hit and expertise, without the NEED to gem. Should gemming hit/expertise be an advantage, the hit/expertise would be reforged away on other gear, preferably into haste (from a 2 hand perspective)

[Bold Primordial Ruby], 160
[Quick Sun's Radiance], 191.04
[Precise Primordial Ruby], 191.04
320 hit, 191.04
[Lightning Wild Jade], 191.04
[Design: Wicked Vermilion Onyx], 191.04
Str and hit/haste, 175.52

It seems to me that, the best choice for the sockets would always be as follows:
Red: 160 expertise, 160 haste
Yellow: 320 haste
Blue: 160 hit, 160 haste

They all have the same value, and therefore you can always go for the socket bonus, unless you have too much hit/expertise to reforge away.

Keeping the gem values in mind, I crunched some of the numbers in the current BiS list, and found that [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates] and [Starcrusher Gauntlets], while 7 ilevels lower, are better than their 509 counterparts, [Greaves of the Lost Catacomb] and [Gauntlets of the Lost Catacomb].

[Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates]:
1134 str, 1134
1 red socket w Wicked Vermilion Ony, 191.04
1 blue socket w Lightning Wild Jade, 191.04
120 str socket bonus, 120
575 hit * .597 = 343.275
903 haste * .597 = 539.091
Total: 2518.446

[Greaves of the Lost Catacomb]:
1300 str, 1300
1 red socket w Wicked Vermilion Ony, 191.04
60 str socket bonus, 60
767 expertise * 0.597 = 457.899
947 mastery * 0.339 = 321.033
Total: 2329.972

[Starcrusher Gauntlets]:
881 str, 881
1 blue socket w Lightning Wild Jade, 191.04
60 haste socket bonus * 0.597 = 35.82
553 hit * 0.597 = 330.141
629 haste * 0.597 = 375.513
Total: 1813.514

[Gauntlets of the Lost Catacomb]:
1026 str, 1026
650 crit * 0.394 = 256.1
704 expertise * 0.597 = 420.288
Total: 1702.388

From the preliminary math, it seems [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates] slips into BiS, while keeping the tier gloves for the four set. This is assuming that the current sim results are reasonably accurate, and don't change for 509 gear.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar?

Kapaya · 09/20/12, 3:13 PM

Nothing....

Titus Pullo · 09/20/12, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by mendenbarr

[Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates]:
1134 str, 1134
1 red socket w Wicked Vermilion Ony, 191.04
1 blue socket w Lightning Wild Jade, 191.04
120 str socket bonus, 120
575 hit * .597 = 343.275
903 haste * .597 = 539.091
Total: 2518.446

[Greaves of the Lost Catacomb]:
1300 str, 1300
1 red socket w Wicked Vermilion Ony, 191.04
60 str socket bonus, 60
767 expertise * 0.597 = 457.899
947 mastery * 0.339 = 321.033
Total: 2329.972

[Starcrusher Gauntlets]:
881 str, 881
1 blue socket w Lightning Wild Jade, 191.04
60 haste socket bonus * 0.597 = 35.82
553 hit * 0.597 = 330.141
629 haste * 0.597 = 375.513
Total: 1813.514

[Gauntlets of the Lost Catacomb]:
1026 str, 1026
650 crit * 0.394 = 256.1
704 expertise * 0.597 = 420.288
Total: 1702.388

From the preliminary math, it seems [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates] slips into BiS, while keeping the tier gloves for the four set. This is assuming that the current sim results are reasonably accurate, and don't change for 509 gear.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar?

You are correct and my numbers agree. [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates] should be BiS for 2H. I also found that [Waistplate of Overwhelming Assault] just exceeds [Patroller's Girdle of Endless Spring] for DW so I've updated both of those in the OP.

For reference, a number of items are very close to BiS and may take over with small tweaks to stat weights so I thought I'd list some of them with the current BiS.

2H
Bracers:
[Bracers of Defiled Earth] 1312.92
[Plated Locust Bracers] 1322.79 (current BiS)

Belt:
[Patroller's Girdle of Endless Spring] 1860.944
[Waistplate of Overwhelming Assault] 1882.641 (current BiS)

DW
Chest:
[Breastplate of the Kings' Guard] 2248.949
[Breastplate of the Lost Catacomb] 2254.539 (current BiS)

Gloves:
[Starcrusher Gauntlets] 1745.363
[Gauntlets of the Lost Catacomb] 1755.188 (current BiS)

Belt:
[Patroller's Girdle of Endless Spring] 1784.626
[Waistplate of Overwhelming Assault] 1790.119 (current BiS)

Weapon:
[Scimitar of Seven Stars] 1128.55
[Kilrak, Jaws of Terror] 1141.15 (current BiS)

Kruciel · 09/22/12, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

Death’s Advance 30 sec – You passively move 10% faster, and movement-impairing effects may not reduce you below 70% of normal movement speed. When activated, you gain 30% movement speed and may not be slowed below 100% of normal movement speed for 6 seconds.

*This will likely be the go-to talent for this tier when none of the others are necessary. 10% runspeed passively and a 30% boost every 30 seconds will increase uptime on bosses with target switching or lots of movement mechanics. This does stack with the movespeed enchants for boots.

Just dropping by to say all Run Speed enchants do stack with this talent. It would be an extremely lackluster talent for unholy if the passive didn't stack with the passive run speed from Unholy Pres. Run speed enchants do share the same "slot" as Unholy Pres however. So if you're frost, you may consider Lavawalker while leveling and then decide what you want to do at 90.

Frost run speed w/ Death's Advance: 110%
Frost run speed w/ Death's Advance + Boot enchant: 119%

Sorasi · 09/23/12, 3:48 AM

first, sorry for my bad english

When I build a Chardev profile chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA with the BiS gear (2h) and reforge on every slot the hit away i´ve got ~1000 hit over cap.
If I change the legs back to [Greaves of the Lost Catacomb] (Set) and some gems the result is:
2548 Expertise (maybe someone found the missing two), 2561 Hit, ~300 Haste more and some more Mastery.

Maybe I am completly wrong, but how can be [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates] (Jang-xi´s) better if u can´t use the hit?

Hope the wowhead links work correctly

mendenbarr · 09/23/12, 8:14 AM

Well, I can't find a way to register for chardev, so it doesn't look like I will be able to link the profiles I've made, but here is my stat comparison.
Rules:
Orc frost dk.
All the main enchants, using crit > hit for back, and mastery/speed on boots.
160 expertise/160 haste in red sockets, 160 hit/160 haste in blue sockets, and 320 haste in yellow sockets and prismatic sockets.
Reverb meta
When over hit cap, replace hit/haste with either haste/stam, or pure haste if the socket bonus is worth less than 160 haste.

Reforging:
If the item has hit, reforge it away.
If the item doesn't have hit, reforge the weakest stat.
If the item doesn't have haste, reforge too it.

Profile 1: BiS list
16253 str (1 * 16253) 16253
2566 hit (.674 *2550 + 0*16) 1718.7
2580 expertise (.674 *2550 + 0*30) 1718.7
9304 haste (.597 * 9304) 5554.488
4120 crit (.394 * 4120) 1623.28
1764 mastery (.339 * 1764) 597.996
Total 27466.164
20648 stam

Profile 2: BiS list with tier legs replacing [Jang-xi's Devastating Legplates]
16364 str (1 * 16364) 16364
2541 hit (.674 *2541) 1712.634
2559 expertise (.674 *2550 + 0*9) 1718.7
8579 haste (.597 * 8579) 5121.663
4678 crit (.394 * 4678) 1843.132
2333 mastery (.339 * 2333) 790.887
Total 27551.016
20538 stam

Obviously these numbers aren't final, but they should make the point that the two choices are quite close, and that even with the tier legs it's possible to reforge away all that hit with the minor sacrifice of missing out on some socket bonuses, yet the benefit of using Jang's legs is also minor.
These numbers assume that chardev is accurate, and as it's still telling me I need 8% hit, I can't say that for sure. The ratings appear to be accurate though.
I'm personally putting the tier legs back into my BiS list for the time being, until other people can confirm or deny this.

Taomi · 09/29/12, 4:45 AM

Why is the Trinket Carbonic Carbuncle valued so low?

According to the given formula its value is: (847*1)+((3386*0,394)/105) = 859, 7
while for example Lessons of the Darkmaster's value is: (847*0,674)+((4232*1)/120) = 606,14

These calculations were done using the 2H values.

Or did I miss something in these calculations?

djxak · 09/29/12, 9:42 PM

You forget to multiply by proc time.
(847*1)+((3386*0,394)/105*30) = 1228,17
(847*0,674)+((4232*1)/120*20) = 1276,21

CB2BiG4U · 09/29/12, 9:44 PM

I dont know of anywhere this has been stated. Howling Blast is not applying Frost Fever to any secondary targets off of the first primary target. Tooltip says it should be.

Tested this with two seperate Death Knights. Is this intended? Stealth Nerf?

• MagdalenaDK · 09/29/12, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by CB2BiG4U

I dont know of anywhere this has been stated. Howling Blast is not applying Frost Fever to any secondary targets off of the first primary target. Tooltip says it should be.

Tested this with two seperate Death Knights. Is this intended? Stealth Nerf?

A similar problem has been confirmed with Unholy Blight. It is highly doubtful that this is a nerf- a bug seems like a much more reasonable explanation. In both cases, we've documented and reported what's happening. Hopefully, we'll see a fix by Tuesday.