WotLK Discussion - Talents and abilities. - Page 135

• Zurm · 09/24/08, 8:22 AM

Big post on MMO changes listing a lot of DK stuff...(link). Here's some highlights:

Death Coil changes
Death Coil's coefficient was increased. We more recently changed the base points, say from 390 to 440 at rank 5. You probably don't have this last change yet. If you used a Death Coil every rotation, that's a lot of extra damage. (Source)

Rune Strike / Frost Strike / Death Coil balancing
I personally don't find the comparisons to the old Kill Command very apt. Kill Command was an almost trivial cost so it always made sense to use it whenever it was up. Rune Strike on the other hand uses 15% of your total runic power, or more than 30% of a Death Coil.

We found that the real problem, IMO, was Death Coil and Frost Strike weren't hitting hard enough relative to other DK abilities, so they didn't feel like they were worth the button push, and subsequently, building up runic power didn't feel like a big deal. Both Death Coil and Frost Strike received serious buffs. (Source)

Edit - Scourge Strike doing correct damage again. Strikes consume Cinderglacier. Rime works now as intended. They tell me Desecrate works now. We'll see. Hopefully you will see these changes next build. (Source)

klineshrike · 09/24/08, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by tzenes

As always the latest editions of the spreadsheet:
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
and in xls
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

Updates:

I've included all of the latest work on multipliers
I've finally added 2handed spec into the damage calculations (now that we have an accurate idea of what it does)
I've changed Scourge Strike, Frost Strike and Heart Strike to use Oblit, DC and Blood (respectively) if you are not spec'd into them
I put in accurate numbers for Humans at level 80
I put in all the starting DK gear for Murmur
The Paper Doll should accurately reflect a starting human dk on murmur (the cloak enchant doesn't work right now so I've just not placed it on her, and the sigal is an approximation)
I've added spaghetti logic to deal with the socket bonuses for now, I'll probably replace it later
The Item buffs are still Level 70 gear and will be updated soon.

If anyone has been adding items I'd appreciate if they uploaded their version.
Additionally, let me know of any bugs you find, I keep hunting for them but I don't always find them.
Also, do we have a consensus on spec/rotations?

As always the xls version is unsupported.

Well one bug I found is in your rotation dropdowns the none option returns an error. Also, how come in every version you never apply Crypt Fever to diseases? Unless there is something I am missing (IE it doesnt work or something) it should be on there. Even if it doesnt work, one would assume it will at some point, and would still be included.

Also, I added Unholy Blight to mine, but the number of 1% AP per tick bothers me, I read it was tested somewhere but have no solid info. Also what about Howling Blast? Its damn near impossible to use in a rotation (and pointless) but when rime works, it will basically fit into holes in rotations whenever Rime procs from what seems best to me. It should be included too, but noone ever seems to want to get the coeffficient for that either...

And Zurm, those are changes to the internal build. They havent gone live yet.

• Zurm · 09/24/08, 10:45 AM

I'm aware, I just wanted to put the post up so people could see what was coming. Also, I'm going to try to port the spreadsheet to Excel 2007 format semi-manually, hopefully removing the errors. Not sure I'll have time before this weekend, but for those who don't like open office that option should be available in the next week or so.

Leaflock · 09/24/08, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by klineshrike

[Howling Blast] should be included too, but noone ever seems to want to get the coeffficient for that either...

Be my guest. I have class today.

Also, you're right that those changes aren't live yet. But they will be, and so will a number of other things that aren't blue-posted or automatically listed at mmo-champion. I don't particularly feel like doing extensive tests on stuff that's likely to change very soon. We've been hearing a lot of various details all possibly making it in the next push, so I'm excited to see what damage is going to look like at that point. I'm content to wait for a better picture of our overall dps (and something that's closer to the total numbers we're actually going to see in live), and then work from there.

Darkrenown · 09/24/08, 12:23 PM

Ugh. I just hit 80 on my DK: Army of the Dead is horrible. The ghouls only seem to live for about 30 seconds and most of them don't do anything. They also die really fast if anything attacks them.

Mild Confusion · 09/24/08, 1:04 PM

Chains of Ice change will make kiting a real issue with DK's. While the spell itself is very powerful and needed to be adjusted, but now the cost of using it is very high if it can be dispelled so easily. It would be nice if the cost could be changed to runic power as Sardaukar suggested as a counter balance. In its current form, it would be as if a warrior could only use hamstring twice every 10 seconds, hamstring could be dispelled, and when you use hamstring you couldn't use overpower.

Hopefully Virulence could be added to the 30% dispell that the other diseases share or perhaps they will add a talent or glyph that would make CoI undispellable. I think a major glyph that affects CoI would be acceptable.

Ultrix · 09/24/08, 2:08 PM

Which of these two enchants would you suggest for a deep blood spec for leveling from 70: Executioner or Rune of the Fallen Crusader?

Andread · 09/24/08, 4:06 PM

Looks like Frost Strike was buffed to 60% weapon damage + 150 (up from 30% + 99) and Death Coil is up to 443 shadow damage (from 148). Seem like decent buffs to me.

Puretide · 09/24/08, 4:42 PM

One thing I noticed is that Blood Strike seems to be doing better damage than Heart Strike at all levels. Seems like a weird change if intended.

tzenes · 09/24/08, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by klineshrike

Well one bug I found is in your rotation dropdowns the none option returns an error. Also, how come in every version you never apply Crypt Fever to diseases? Unless there is something I am missing (IE it doesnt work or something) it should be on there. Even if it doesnt work, one would assume it will at some point, and would still be included.

Also, I added Unholy Blight to mine, but the number of 1% AP per tick bothers me, I read it was tested somewhere but have no solid info. Also what about Howling Blast? Its damn near impossible to use in a rotation (and pointless) but when rime works, it will basically fit into holes in rotations whenever Rime procs from what seems best to me. It should be included too, but noone ever seems to want to get the coeffficient for that either...

And Zurm, those are changes to the internal build. They havent gone live yet.

The major reason I did not include Unholy Blight is because I didn't know the apc, and when I started it was still on a 30 second cooldown.
Howling Blast (and Rune Strike) require a different model to include in the dps, but I'll try to add the Howling Blast damage (at the least).
I left off the Frost build/rotation because it is the one I am least familiar with, but I'll try and get it together into the next build.

I've already fixed the none and Crypt Fever bugs, and they should be applied to the next version (which I should have up later today).

While xls versions are currently unsupported I do make one for every build, if someone could let me know where the errors are I can probably make changes to the master build to get rid of them.

Also: open office is free, if you want to work with the master build.

Mild Confusion · 09/24/08, 6:21 PM

Skills
Blood

Blood Strike damage has been increased. (eg. 191 additional damage + 95.5 damage per disease for Rank 6, up from 66 additional damage + 33 damage per disease)
Heart Strike damage has been increased. (eg. 184 additional damage + 92 damage per disease for Rank 6, up from 101 additional damage + 54 damage per disease)
Strangulate cooldown has been increased from 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

Frost

Obliterate damage has been increased. (eg. 292 additional damage + 146 damage per disease for Rank 4 , up from 217 additional damage + 108 damage per disease)
Icy Touch damage has been increased. (Up from 90 to 227 damage for Rank 5, 74 to 187 damage for Rank 4, etc ...)
Frost Strike damage has been increased. (60% weapon damage instead of 30%, additional damage increased by 50%)

Unholy

Death Coil damage has been increased. (443 damage/664 heal instead of 148 damage/222 heal for rank 5, etc ..)
Plague Strike damage has been increased. (113 additional damage instead of 30 for Rank 6, etc ...)
Scourge Strike damage has been increased. (eg. additional damage + damage per disease for Rank , up from additional damage + damage per disease)
Anti-Magic Shell cooldown increased from 15 seconds to 1 minute.

Talents
Blood

Will of the Necropolis now reduces the cooldown of Anti-Magic Shell by 4/8/12 seconds. (Up from 1/2/3 seconds)

Frost

Blood of the North changed from 3 to 5 points. Increases Blood Strike damage by 3/6/9/12/15%. In addition, whenever you hit with Blood Strike or Pestilence there is a 20/40/60/80/100% chance that the Blood Rune will become a Death Rune when it activates.
Endless Winter has been moved from Tier 7 to Tier 6.
Chillbains moved from Tier 6 to Tier 7.
Improved Icy Talons now increases your melee attack speed by 5%. (Up from 2%)
Rime now also affects Obliterate.

Unholy

Anti-Magic Zone now absorbs [ 200% of AP + 10 000 ] spell damage. (Up from a flat 10 000)

It appears we are gaining damage, but losing utility. AMS was expected, so was strangulate, but I didn't think it would be 2 minutes. But I guess it's fair since I can't think another class has an interrupt, silence, magical near immunity and a 50% damage reduction.

• Zurm · 09/24/08, 7:43 PM

After some playing around, here's some numbers. At level 73 in quest greens, my Scourge Strike is now hitting for about 1.9k (up from 700 or so). Death coil is hitting for pretty much 1k (up from 450-500). The ghoul damage has been lowered by 30% or so, no change to HP/Armor. Icy Touch hits for about 550 (up from 300). Changes to anti-magic shell are confirmed as well. Death grip minimum range removed.

tzenes · 09/24/08, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by tzenes

The major reason I did not include Unholy Blight is because I didn't know the apc, and when I started it was still on a 30 second cooldown.
Howling Blast (and Rune Strike) require a different model to include in the dps, but I'll try to add the Howling Blast damage (at the least).
I left off the Frost build/rotation because it is the one I am least familiar with, but I'll try and get it together into the next build.

I've already fixed the none and Crypt Fever bugs, and they should be applied to the next version (which I should have up later today).

While xls versions are currently unsupported I do make one for every build, if someone could let me know where the errors are I can probably make changes to the master build to get rid of them.

Also: open office is free, if you want to work with the master build.

I hadn't noticed this, but I had been uploaded an older version than my current working version for ods and so some bugs I had fixed were still there. These versions should be current:

Changes

All changes for 8982 are implemented
Disease damage should now work properly and include Crypt Fever
Howling Blast has been added do the dps calculations
None should work properly in dps rotations

I am also pleased to announce that going forword I will support changes to xls version due to someone pointing me to microsoft excel viewer

Here are (hopefully this time) the latest versions:
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting
and xls
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

klineshrike · 09/24/08, 9:05 PM

Leaflock, if you are offering for me to test Howling blast, I dont have an invite to beta. So I am unable to test it, or I would have my own coefficients for stuff each push.

Someone posted a link to a beta guy who had up to date coefficients for all but HB, he had Unholy Blight at 1% per tick. Sounds about right, puts it way below the other diseases anyway. Also, is the base tick damage of diseases at 80 really 127? the way they scale i would think it would be lower. Disease dps is insane and can usually come close to matching an entire rotations dps.

From a rough estimate it sounds like none of the spell coefficients were changed. IT gained about 130 ish damage, so after mods 200+ added sounds right. Same with DC gaining like 300 and oging up about 500. This would be good so new coefficients dont need to be found. Makes sense too, because the main problem was stuff being WAY too low base makes training new ranks nearly pointless.

These changes to damage should easilly put DKs back on track dps wise. Although the Heart Strike damage seems off, makes absolutely no sense to be lower. Also, I wonder when blizz will realize Oblit is going to be much better than Scourge after they add glyphs... even including armor.

Lazareth · 09/24/08, 9:07 PM

Nice DPS boost we got, but Blood is still behind it feels, unless it's just due to the PvP gear given to premades and the lack of PvE stats on them. And the damage on Blood strike being over Heart strike is weird.

Is Runic Focus new or has it been in for a while? The WoW Beta DK forums are talking about it like it was just implemented. I've not seen anything on it before now, but I'm also not the most observant person in the world.

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Runic Focus