I was pretty sure Haste had no effect on GCD or ability use for melee instants? What does haste factor into rotation timing?

Also I'm the LAST person in this thread to have solid damage models :p

Honestly, Rime seems like a huge mess to me. If you've got a solid rotation going what the hell are you doing with those extra runes?

Though, when asking myself that question I answer: 'Using that 'wait' time at 10.5 dumbass.'

I'm pretty rude to myself it seems.

Edit: When you use up a Rime Proc do you get RP?

I'm making a rune addon at the moment. There are no good ones, only copies of the original runeframe with some ugly textures.
Mine doesn't look better right now, but I just started :
Deposit Files
(It's the addon in the middle)

What do you think about it?
Edit: Damn, forgot a lame soundtrack..

All PPM means is that the % proc chance is modified by weapon speed. Example: An enchant with a PPM of 4 is supposed to proc once every 15 seconds. On a 1.5 speed weapon, then, the % chance is 10% per swing. AFAIK, the PPM doesn't track things like extra attacks or haste and lower the % based on them, but many procs (like Windfury) have an internal cooldown. (Windfury is not a PPM however, just a flat 20%, as the effect is self-regulated by the speed of the weapon).

I'm guessing the PPM is around 1, which means a 3.4 speed weapon would have a proc rate of somewhere close to 5.5%.

You said you were spamming BS and PS, which means in 5 minutes you did 4 extra attacks per 10 seconds, or 24 extra per minute, or 120 extra over 5 minutes. at a 5.5% proc rate, you're looking at 6.6 extra procs, on top of the 5 PPM that the autoattack should generate, or 11.6, which is exceedingly close to the 12 you are getting.

I wouldn't say you're insane, but due to the rate of attacks I think it's more likely that its a flat % on all weapon strikes, perhaps something like 2%. There's only one way to be sure, more testing! I'm going to see if I can get some more data.

That's an interesting concept. I don't think I've seen anything that pairs UF together. I've seen things like RuneHero, but they all take up too much space and try to do too much.

I've been going through a learning experience with OpenRDX to plan out my DK's UI. It seems to me that just moving the default rune bar bottom center with your self unitframe, scaling it up a bit, and slapping some OmniCC timers on it works just fine. I haven't actually played the class yet so I might find I don't like it, but for now there's a hole for it waiting.

Zurm, I'm fairly certain the PPM on Fallen Crusader is the same as Crusader, which is 1. Based on info from Procs per minute - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft , I'm estimating a % chance per hit around 5.6% for a 3.4 speed 2hander, which seems to match his proc rate of 6.1%. A 1.4 speed weapon would therefore have a 1.4/60 = 2.3 % proc rate, which is close to his value of 1.7% he noticed in his 1.4 autoattack test (the variance I would chalk up to the low sample size). IIRC, offhand weapons have a 50% penalty to ppm, which means his proc rate for 2x1.4 would be 2.3+1.15=3.45, closely matching his rate of 3.2% on 2x1.4.

I looks fine, but too simple right now, like the addon you used on the side of the screen. I think that auto moving runes makes it hard to absorve the information. From my experience with the other addon, it makes me fell that a should use the upper runes (or in your case, to the left) before procceding to the others. I fell like I'm a computer executing an algorythm. This probably would cause me problems on a PVP or high end raid setting, where I need flexibility. Here is what worked for me on Beta.

I use RuneWatch, placed right below my character, on compact mode in this layout (I play mostly Frost and unholy):

----F U

--F RP U

----B B

2 problems come with that

RP is a big number in the center, but I don't need it that big. On a white background it's easy to see, so that's a plus, but there could be more usefull information (Like rime/death trance procs, UB duration. I've been using tellmewhen for those)

It uses the runes in a clockwise manner. So after the initial IT-PS, it looks this way:

----F 9

--7 20 U

----B B

The rune cooldowns (from OmniCD) are very important , but I wish it wasted the runes from the middle in single rune abilities (if possible). This way, we would end with 2 pairs of runes right beside each other, making a quick glance at the addon short enough to recognize the available resorces. When a Death rune procs, the blood runes become plain purple, with no texture, being very easy to identify and pair them for a FU spell.

This contrast between on cooldown and active death runes also allows a bigger control over the resouces, and I wish it's concept was applied to all runes . I've, however, no problem with the textures, especially custom ones that come with the addon. Looking at plain spheres all the time makes them boring.

RW also comes with a disease tracker. I've never used it, I prefer to look at the X-perl big debuffs (the frames are placed on the sides of the RW)

I guess there should be only one rule for a DK addon: All necessary elements should be easy to spot and understand at all times, in the shortest time possible. Since we are a melee class, it's almost impossible to play a DK looking at the action bar or the Character, target and buffs frame all the time.

Last time I was playing, I was still using the original version of Rune Hero, which surprisingly, was much better. Same concept with runes moving, but that was it, a box, little colored dots moving, nothing else. It was clear and efficient. It's sad the guy decided to make it all graphic and stuff.

I still have the addon if people want me to upload it somewhere, but I guess someone might just remake a lightweight version of runehero.

Edit: Don't mind the runes in upper left corner, it's blizzard base UI, was having issues when removing them or something, wasn't using them anyway.

Here's a pic:

Looks interesting, but it needs 2 things: some form of timer for each rune, and a color change for Death Runes. Also, the Death Rune needs to show the 'original' rune somehow.

It's just a concept right now. I know it needs to look better .
I have some more ideas, things that almost no one mentioned before.

As someone said, the current grouping system is great. What *I* would like to see in a DK Addon is the following: A warning system for when diseases and/or UB is down, a warning for Sudden Doom procs, and a warning for Rune Strike procs (though, we all just have RS macroed to our other attacks, so this isn't a priority).

Ideally, this addon would allow full range of movement of this screen, as well as the option to disable certain warnings and such. I could approximate all of this using other addons (SCT for the custom warnings, Quartz or NECB for the disease warnings, etc) but having them all in one place would be great. If you've ever seen ShockAndAwe - Addons - Curse you'll know what I mean. I'd love for a DK version of this.

A good mod for tracking a variety of different cooldowns in one spot is Tellmewhen. A bar version of this addon is NeedtoKnow.

One thing I didn't like about Runewatch is that your RP value is something that you are probably already displaying (wherever your mana/rage/energy bar would be if you were a different class). I just want the runes. The other thing is I found that its stringing the runes out horizontally, especially with OmniCC showing their cooldowns as digits, made it difficult to know at a glance know what was going to be available.

I've been using SimpleRune (see attached screenshot), which simply groups them in a 3x2 column, which makes it much easier to see FU combos. It takes up a small enough amount of space that you can fit it under your character quite easily.

However, SimpleRune does not seem to disable the default rune UI, so I had to add this line of code to its startup routine:

_G["RuneFrame"]:Hide();

I don't think numbers are good on your runes. They take too long too read. A simple visual indicator like a bar is faster to read. Unfortunately you can't fit good ones in those rune circles, so it has to be outside.
A disease indicator is also needed, since you don't want to see the diseases of that DK next to you.

RuneFrame:Hide()
does the trick, too.

For those of you who look at Toughness and think of it as a DPS talent (not necessarily wrong), even at 20k armor, you are getting only 80 atk pwr from 5 talent points. That's peanuts, especially compared to Rage of Rivendare. Have seen this idea posted multiple times in the past few slew of pages. After looking at it myself, I decided it's one of the worst dps talents available. The little armor you get is worth less than other available talents that would help you just kill mobs much quicker.

20000 x .15 / 180 x 5 = 83.333 (repeating of course) attack power via Bladed Armor.

For the above poster, your raid build is much more sound, but Necrosis is a talent you should grab and you shouldn't invest points into On a Pale Horse for a PvE dps build. The value of Virulence is up in the air. Depends on itemization, obviously, but it's only for spells. We should be easily spell hit capped in raid gear so those talent points would most likely be wasted.

Rage of Rivendare is 10% increased dmg, straight out of the box. On top of that it adds expertise. Not just expertise rating, but flat points of expertise. The merits of this talent have been expounded upon in previous pages but it's simply a must-get that deep in Unholy. Nothing beats it, really... if you look closer at the other trees you'll see Tundra Stalker and Blood Gorged are just like them and designed to be picked up, regardless.

You can configure Power Auras to do all this and anything else you can think of really. It's a handy mod since you can just on the fly create a visual indicator for the presence of any buff/debuff, resource state, etc. I plan to have some sort of DoT timer mod tracking the duration of FF and BP for my Death Knight so I'm not sure if I'll bother with this myself (if the duration is zero, the target is missing the disease ) but with Power Auras you could easily set a visual icon to appear whenever your target does not have FF or whatever.

Power Auras - Addons - Curse

I've made another version. Yes, there are some errors, but you'll get the idea .
Deposit Files

I agree but with one caveat. Bladed Armor and Toughness is a Tanking combo. If you are tanking it is a fantastic gain since you will also be running in Frost presence. That said any build that isn't a strong tri-spec must get one of those 3 talents. There is no reason not to unless you plan on going unholy and never using plague strike, or frost and never using icy touch, and in that case you'd have bigger concerns than what talents to pick.

Sure, they go together well for tanking. His point was that Toughness is often suggested as a dps talent, when it's probably the poorest dps talent available. To take it over Rage of Rivendare (or Blood Gorged/Tundra Stalker) would be a significant loss of dps.

That's like saying a Weapon and Defense Rating is a great combo for tanking. I mean, you're right, but it's kind of a given.

Bladed Armor is a talent that every single spec should take, regardless of purpose. And every tanking spec should have all three Tier 1 tanking talents.

I believe that every DK should take Bladed Armor and Epidemic, and unless they are DW they should take 2H Weapon Spec (and I'm not a believer in DW). I've already decided that for DPS, the two best builds are 17/0/54 or 51/13/7. I'm not completely sold on Frost as a DPS build, but I must caveat that with saying I barely tried a frost build before going back to Blood.

Slightly off-topic: I've noticed that Unholy is STILL considered the top tree for all DK activities. Tanking? Unholy. Leveling? Unholy. PVP? Unholy. DPS? Unholy.

Is this indicative of a problem, if one tree is considered the best at all three? It seems like each reason is different; for tanking, it's Bone Shield, for Leveling it's Pale Horse, for DPS it's Unholy Blight and Wandering Plague, and for PvP it's Unholy Aura. As a Blood DK, I'm slightly worried that I'll be benched for raids simply because I lack these talents.

Death Knight's are first class who can consistently summon Guardian-class pets. It raises a question if such pets are affected by Command(orc racial) ability. If it is true orcs DKs will gain nice 5% boost on their Gargoyle and DRW abilities. I was reading this topic for last 60-70 pages and didn't see any testing.

Just noting that with more than 1 unholy DK in the group, only one will actually debuff Ebon Plague (it won't appear for the other DK).