Ish

Due to sudden doom you have an excess of runic power during the two minutes when the gargoyle is not up with a rotation like this, if you do not run Unholy you will not be able to Burn all that RP.. Atleast that was my problem in Blood

PS-IT-HS-HS-OB
PS-IT-HS-HS-HS-HS


With regards to RAF my approach is to have my fresh lvl 60 booster sit in orgrimmar and then group with him as you are about to turn in the thrall quest. Going from 57.9 to 60.9 and then start running the turn ins.. Dualboxing with your friends account for the startzone seems like alot of work for the same result

 

tzenes

I could be wrong, but it was my understanding that if you granted a level to a 57.9, they became a 58.0 not a 58.9

 

pldcanfly

51/13/7 showed more self-dps. The pets do quite the same dps, but gargolye has a way better uptime.

Regarding Unholy aura ... i dont know now if you speak of why i used it. I'm going to try it with blood. brb.

 

scandalous

When you do the cloth turnins, do you mean to turn in just 4 or 8 stacks, or do you mean doing the turnins to exalted?

 

pldcanfly

Sorry, posted the false information before, misconfigured recount-display.

Correct Data:

 

Ish

Nah you gain a level and the xp carries over into the next level

 

Crax

You have to start with Wool and work up, so when he says 4 turn ins, he means 1 each of Wool, Silk, Mageweave, & Runecloth.

 

Finalplague01

I've been having some trouble speccing - I really want the Unholy Command talent for PvP and interrupt purposes (not for tanking). What talents should be taken out of the typical Unholy DPS build in order to fit this in? Which 2 talents lost would cause the least reduction in total DPS lost?

Heres what I'm looking at:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...03150003133151

I'm still negotiating how many points I want in Necrosis and Impurity, but I'm leaning towards Impurity for leveling purposes. Where would you take points out?

 

Pyros

Yes, you can only gift from the RAF account to the original account.


He meant 4cloth types instead of stacks. You turn in 3stacks of each type of cloth(60wool+60silk+60mageweave which unlocks 60runecloth). After that the quest doesn't give xp and reputation is worthless. The 8 actually comes from the fact Ironforge has both the Dwarf and Gnome rep turnins, so double amount. For the horde, it's the same with trolls and orcs in orgrimmar.

 

NeuroMedivh

In pure DPS mode, I run with 51/13/7. It used to be better when Black Ice did Frost and Shadow, now I change it up a bit: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...00000000000000

Note: Some of this spec are personal choice, such as Blood Worms and Mark of Blood, but most of it is standard. In full raiding, I'd probably move those points into Rune Tap or Scent of Blood or Blade Barrier for better off-tanking.

I haven't done a complete breakdown on whether the tiny increase in DPS from Toughness is better than the tiny increase on Icy Touch, but overall I'd rather have Toughness, as it gives better survivability and mobility. Sometimes the intangibles are as important as the hard numbers.

As for 50/0/21, I have a tough time believing Gargoyle can out-dps DRW. Maybe at lower gear levels, but DRW will scale FAR better with your weapon, and in full raid epics I see DRW far outclassing Gargoyle. The synergy of the 51/13/7 spec is just so solid, and seems to be the most efficient use of runes.

 

Ultimate

I've got my cloth for sw and IF ready. I also have the turns in for BL(perfect draen stuff and the scorpok stuff). I logged in beta not to long ago to see if the savage fronds, bone fragments, etc. quest were still there. Sadly the npc were not giving out the quest.

 

richard

Were you Friendly with Argent Dawn?

 

Ultimate

Ah didn't know you had to be friendly.

 

pldcanfly

The Gargoyle does 40% off your attackpower - every 1.7 seconds if my quartz was right - while lasting 3x longer. It scales with gear pretty nice too and drw needs to do tripple the damage, since the dps of the both "pets" is similar, at blueish gear-level.

DRW of course has advantages over Gargolye. It lasts 20 seconds (when used at 100 rp), and saves 400 runic power (50sec*8rp), which can be used for deathcoils. I need to do the math if a deathcoil can outdps 5 seconds of gargoyle.... And it cant, since gargoyle(40% per strike) scales far better than deathcoil((15% +443)*(1+crit/100)*1,15).

If you assume every deathcoil will be a crit (100% crit).. gargoyle will still surpass it at 1556 atp.
So DRW needs to beat 10 seconds of gargoyle + the better use of runic-power.


For a pvp specc i would chose drw over gargoyle, since dcs can be spammed while drw is out, so the burst is far more higher, and lasts longer.

 

Siawn

I'm concerned that they'll make this kind of change for DK's as well when they notice that armor is our primary tanking stat as well. This really does seem like a nerf to Feral simply to make gearing a feral even more ridiculously easy. They don't need defense, they don't even need resilience anymore, and now they don't even need to work to acquire pieces with high AC. Should we be worried that DK's might get a similar change?

 

MatthewDB

True, however if it bothers you then just transfer your vet acct DK to your recruit account.

 

• Zurm

Feral has a massive 4.7 multiplier. Ours is only 1.84 (I think.... 1.6 * 1.15 from toughness?), to make up for a lack of a shield and flat mitigation like other tanks get. I doubt we'd see a nerf like that.

Gargoyle attacks every 2.5s, I thought. Did they change it?

Also DRW doesn't need to do triple damage to be superior. DRW has a significantly cheaper RP cost and you can even use DC's while running DRW. DRW damage also scales better with gear, but I agree that the maximum duration is the main part of the drawback. I expect a nerf to Gargoyle when our review comes (or a buff to DRW, though that will have some signficiant PvP impact) because of how it is prioritized over two DPS-oriented 51 point talents in both deep blood and unholy specs.

 

Siawn

Rationally, I agree. Irrationally, nerfs make me nervous.

 

Flamingcloud

Hmm I am unsure. Armor is probably the best stat for dks, but not by very much, it isn't an overpowered stat that needs nerfing. They would basically put the armor items to the point of uselessness if this change was made across the board and hit all tanks only getting the raw value. Even if the change happens I don't really think it would affect our viability on the kind of fights we specialize on already.

 

Illundai

Sure, that's 20 € for a free level though (and maybe a mount, I haven't actually gifted that to one of my chars yet..)

 

pldcanfly

Even better .. Gargoyle makes better use of the runicpower that would be spend for DCs with DRW.
So basicly DRW needs to beat: Gargoyledps + better useage of runic power
I agree with you that atp/14 scales better than atp/10*4/2 just comparing dps-wise. My only concern is, that the extremly good useage of the runic power could make that up. And the usage gets better and better the more attackpower is achieved.

40RP worth 5 secs of garg or 1 (assumed) critical DC (lets say the garg does 2 strikes in 5 seconds, in my experience i would say the casttime is 2, but lets assume 2,5)
1000 ap:
- Garg: 1000*0,4*2 = 800
- DC: (1000*0,15+443)*(1+100/100)*1,15 = 1363,9

4000 ap:
- Garg: 3200
- DC: 2398,9

So Gargoyle does more damage in the 20-60s ratio, even if I assumed values for crit and casttime that are in advantage for the dc-spam. DRW needs to beat this.



On the 1.7 casttime .. I dont know, maybe its just influenced by haste? I cant test it since the betarealms are down.

edit:
just done a graph in mathcad.




can someone determine the rotation and attacks that DRW is using? so i can model it precisley later on?

 

Eetabeetay

@ Pldcanfly, i noticed you called gargoyle and DRW "pets". Are they in fact considered pets and therefore benefit from the orc racial or is DRW just a buff and Gargoyle just a debuff? (I didn't get to play beta)

 

• Zurm

The rotation for 51/13/7 is as follows (at least, IMO):

PS->IT->HS->HS->Oblit-> (DC dump)
Oblit -> HSx4 -> (DC dump)

In the 20 seconds DRW is up, it copies everything you do.

 

methods

Except the DCs right?

 

Nacht

I can absolutely confirm that Gargoyle is a pet and benefits from the Orc racial. My tests were yielding a 0.475 AP coefficient for Gargoyle with the only talents chosen that could possibly benefit it being Ebon Plaguebringer. The 0.475 is equal to 0.4*1.13*1.05, with the 1.05 being the pet racial. I have not checked on DRW though. It's a little harder to test the bonus on that. I would say it is likely considered a pet as well, but I don't have verification of it.