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Old 11/05/08, 6:48 PM   #3851
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
I was planning on using the Death Strike glyph to level though, annoying I can't test if it works properly yet or not.

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Old 11/05/08, 6:56 PM   #3852
jokeyrhyme
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Death Knight
 
Barthilas
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but in all of the posts about RaF and power-levelling, I have not seen this mentioned at all: is it possible for bored and mean 70s to camp the DK starting zone (on a PvP server)?

I'm hoping that DKs are completely phased separate from the traditional classes until they hit 58. I know much of the DK quests result in phasing anyhow, but have they employed this to defend us in our weakness moments?

There's not really much of a reason to allow players of other classes to be able to help us out during our tutorial, so I'm hoping it's just completely impossible. Remember, I've said "until 58" above, I fully expect the rest of the world to come crashing down upon me once I graduate.

So, has anyone tried this out in beta? How exactly does this work?

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Old 11/05/08, 6:57 PM   #3853
Max
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Uther
Originally Posted by jokeyrhyme View Post
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but in all of the posts about RaF and power-levelling, I have not seen this mentioned at all: is it possible for bored and mean 70s to camp the DK starting zone (on a PvP server)?

I'm hoping that DKs are completely phased separate from the traditional classes until they hit 58. I know much of the DK quests result in phasing anyhow, but have they employed this to defend us in our weakness moments?

There's not really much of a reason to allow players of other classes to be able to help us out during our tutorial, so I'm hoping it's just completely impossible. Remember, I've said "until 58" above, I fully expect the rest of the world to come crashing down upon me once I graduate.

So, has anyone tried this out in beta? How exactly does this work?
It's instanced.

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Old 11/05/08, 7:00 PM   #3854
rhea
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Dunemaul (EU)
I once got throught the starting zone, if I remember correctly, it's completely phased out because the town gets renovated completely.....

I'd like some numbers too on the death strike glyph for leveling, is it really needed and I assume BS + Ghoul would be the obvious choice otherwise?

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Old 11/05/08, 7:15 PM   #3855
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Even once you're done with the tutorial, Ebon Hold/Archerus, the place where you train, is Sanctuary flagged(like shattrath), so there's really no risk, unless you get camped at the Dark Portal ^^. IIRC dieing there is pretty terrible in terms of run back.

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Old 11/05/08, 7:18 PM   #3856
Avilister
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Thrall
If I recall, the area immediately around the Dark Portal (Outlands-side) is also Sanctuary flagged, so that shouldn't be a danger. The danger will really be on the Asteroth-side of the portal until nascient DKs start running out from Thrallmar for questing.

Edit: Incidentlly, dealing with BS like that is exactly the reason I'm on a PvE server. :P

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Old 11/05/08, 7:28 PM   #3857
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Avilister View Post
If I recall, the area immediately around the Dark Portal (Outlands-side) is also Sanctuary flagged, so that shouldn't be a danger. The danger will really be on the Asteroth-side of the portal until nascient DKs start running out from Thrallmar for questing.

Edit: Incidentlly, dealing with BS like that is exactly the reason I'm on a PvE server. :P
Oh you're right the Dark Portal is Sanctuary flagged too, forgot about it. I'm just gonna summon my DK around using RAF lvl 1s anyway, so won't be an issue, and since I'll start directly in zangarmarsh, I probably won't have to deal with the retards who will camp hellfire/plaguelands ^^.

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Old 11/05/08, 7:46 PM   #3858
Eetabeetay
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by Clandestine View Post
Now would probably be a good time for someone more ambitious than I to create a new Death Knight thread, and maybe consolidate it into one tanking mechanics thread and one DPS mechanics thread. This thread has basically degenerated into people talking about specs and specific abilities because the older information in the thread is all outdated and irrelevant and even if someone were inclined to read all 100-some pages, they wouldn't get much useful out of it.
Also a big write up like the one in the protection warrior thread would be immensely useful. It could consolidate all the information in this thread onto one page and would clear up a lot of the questions that get asked repeatedly in this thread, because no one wants to search 150 pages for an answer.

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Old 11/05/08, 8:11 PM   #3859
Loyant
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Arthas
Blood Strike w/ Chilblains

Has anyone tested the resulting damage of Blood Strike + Blood Strike Glyph + Blood of the North? It would be awesome if these were additive, and it would make one of my PVP glyphs decided since I would have at least one point in chilblains.

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Old 11/05/08, 8:16 PM   #3860
jlavarj
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Bloodscalp
It's impossible to camp the DK starting zone, but when I was leveling my DK through outland there were quite a few 70's in flight patterns over quest hubs ganking level 58 Death Knights. It was even worse at 70 when I went to Northrend and had to compete with other classes at 70 who had full pvp gear, 400 more resilience and 3000 more hit points than I did. I don't think leveling Death Knights is going to be a lot of fun on pvp servers unless you get a group or have a second account you can use to tag along with your death knight.


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Old 11/05/08, 8:22 PM   #3861
Xephos
Space Lion
 
Human Death Knight
 
The Venture Co (EU)
As an ex-hunter, one thing I was experimenting with was using my G15 to spam a castrandom macro along these lines, particularly when AOE farming. I found it saved me a lot of missed cooldowns and improved my overall DPS.

This was the general order:

To pull:

Bone Shield > Plonk D&D down, then IT > PS > Epidemic

then spam the macro:

/castrandom Blood Boil, Death Strike, Blood Tap, Unholy Blight, Rune Strike, Corpse Explosion

If the mobs aren't hurting you too much you can switch Death Strike out for SS. If Runic Power starts building up before Unholy Blight is over and the mobs are still alive you can maybe drop a DC in there.

What do you guys think?

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Old 11/05/08, 9:28 PM   #3862
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Xephos View Post
As an ex-hunter, one thing I was experimenting with was using my G15 to spam a castrandom macro along these lines, particularly when AOE farming. I found it saved me a lot of missed cooldowns and improved my overall DPS.

This was the general order:

To pull:

Bone Shield > Plonk D&D down, then IT > PS > Epidemic

then spam the macro:

/castrandom Blood Boil, Death Strike, Blood Tap, Unholy Blight, Rune Strike, Corpse Explosion

If the mobs aren't hurting you too much you can switch Death Strike out for SS. If Runic Power starts building up before Unholy Blight is over and the mobs are still alive you can maybe drop a DC in there.

What do you guys think?
Well first I think you mean Pestilence instead of Epidemic, and Rune Tap instead of Blood Tap. After that, I'd say it might save you hotkeys space, but it doesn't seem particularly useful. There's no difference in using that /castrandom and just using the abilities in the order you used them, with rune strike usage based on UB cooldown. I mean, it's not like there's a random choice here, you only use what you can use when runes are up. And it might not use Rune Tap everytime it's up, which probably would be a loss in terms of overall speed, and could Rune Strike like twice before UB preventing its usage.

Or was that supposed to be a /castsequence? I guess you could probably make a huge /castsequence(barring any macro limit I'm not aware of) which does everything you need and just use that for grinding.

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Old 11/05/08, 9:50 PM   #3863
Aedon
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Zurm View Post
I have a question for those of you who have been closely following blood. From what I see, there are two viable blood specs to try: 50/0/21 and 51/13/7. I was curious if anyone had any opinions on these two... I favored the 51/13/7 from personal tests, but I can see where the 10 points in frost might be considered a waste. I just find the rotation for the 51/13/7 seems much more natural for a DK rotation, but points in unholy for 50/0/21 are also wasted (epidemic).

Regarding frost, I faced a seperate dilema in getting points in epidemic as opposed to changing up the rotation. Are single-cooldown (each rune is only used once) rotations going to be required as frost and blood?
I have also tested both specs though got higher results then 1600 DPS on the dummy then that one previous poster. I know with the 50/0/21 spec I could get 1900-2100 and around the same with 51/13/7.

I also had the same argument with the so called wasted talents in frost for annihilation. though I agree with you the rotation is nice and actually a little flexible. Also obliterate not taking off diseases only increases the DPS.

I personally like 51/13/7, though either spec can compete. I wish I had my recount parses, I cant seem to find them. If I do I will link my results. You can maintain DRW and Gargoyle for the max time on both.

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Old 11/05/08, 10:26 PM   #3864
Arkasi
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Zurm View Post
1) In my blood tests, the Unholy Death rune was always used before the Frost. Not sure why, oblit creates them both at the same time.
This is a coding issue. Whoever created the death rune code arbitrarily coded that unholy death runes are used before frost death runes. It's not alphabetical, and there is no way to set up before the order in which you want your runes return. From a coding standpoint there had to be some form order imposed, but I'm sure we could argue for pages, hours, even months over what the order should be and not come to a conclusion. In the end an either/or decision had to be made and this is what we got.

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Old 11/05/08, 10:57 PM   #3865
Nephthys
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Arkasi View Post
This is a coding issue. Whoever created the death rune code arbitrarily coded that unholy death runes are used before frost death runes.
In the rune API, the runes are numbered 1-6. 1 & 2 are blood. 3 & 4 are unholy. 5 & 6 are frost. They decided to change the order later on. You can see the fix in the code. (Unholy also used to be called death, and death called chromatic). So I assume unholy death runes are used first because they're earliest in the numbered list.

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Old 11/05/08, 11:05 PM   #3866
pldcanfly
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Baelgun (EU)
while dooing the graph i was wondering if DRW is just a copy of your pure weapon, or its ap-dependant (does it get 100% of your atp?).
i believe that i have read that it only grants 40% or so..

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Old 11/05/08, 11:21 PM   #3867
Daedalix
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Kilrogg
From Beta DKs, how easy was it to get Expertise capped? Are we talking full Naxx-25 gear? A certain trinket do most of the work? Naxx loot tables on MMO-Champ were lacking...

Also, what new enchants are out there that are must-haves for raid dps? I imagine +STR would be favorites, but anything out of the ordinary?

A list or atleast an attempt at 80 to check for the best enchants is another item on the list of "things that will go in the new dps/tank threads." If anyone is attempting that monumental task, btw, Quigon's Protection Warrior Guide and the Resto Druid "How to Raid as a Tree" are good threads to look at for ideas for formatting and items to cover. It's just begging for more inane questions if the official DK thread starts with a pure theory crafting post ending in a question rather than a detailed guide...

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Old 11/05/08, 11:55 PM   #3868
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Speaking of consolidated threads, it's probably best to write one for each DPS spec and then a big one for tanking. At least, that seems it would prevent huge clutter and discussions going through eachother (like we had here).

I wouldn't mind writing something up for Blood in any case.

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Old 11/06/08, 12:12 AM   #3869
pldcanfly
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Baelgun (EU)
http://pldcanfly.is-a-geek.com/dk/dps.htm

I created a mathcad-sheet for 1 minute gargoyle or 20 secs drw + 10 death coils
It's weapon dependant and i inserted values for [Armageddon]

It shows that gargolye indeed scales better with atp (if attackpower is not fully applied to DRW) with 40% of scaling the "breakpoint" is at 8086.8. If the DRW-scaling is better drw will be far better..

One things I came to were that Gargoyle does magical damage, so it ignores armor.

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Old 11/06/08, 12:27 AM   #3870
Frostx
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Pyros View Post
Oh you're right the Dark Portal is Sanctuary flagged too, forgot about it. I'm just gonna summon my DK around using RAF lvl 1s anyway, so won't be an issue, and since I'll start directly in zangarmarsh, I probably won't have to deal with the retards who will camp hellfire/plaguelands ^^.
Uhh sorry for not knowing this but can you RAF summon your DK once he's 60+ ?

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Old 11/06/08, 2:33 AM   #3871
Louky
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Arthas (EU)
Originally Posted by Daedalix View Post
From Beta DKs, how easy was it to get Expertise capped? Are we talking full Naxx-25 gear? A certain trinket do most of the work? Naxx loot tables on MMO-Champ were lacking...

Also, what new enchants are out there that are must-haves for raid dps? I imagine +STR would be favorites, but anything out of the ordinary?

A list or atleast an attempt at 80 to check for the best enchants is another item on the list of "things that will go in the new dps/tank threads." If anyone is attempting that monumental task, btw, Quigon's Protection Warrior Guide and the Resto Druid "How to Raid as a Tree" are good threads to look at for ideas for formatting and items to cover. It's just begging for more inane questions if the official DK thread starts with a pure theory crafting post ending in a question rather than a detailed guide...
Assuming you are speaking of the Melee DPS Expertise cap, it's actually very very easy to reach the cap early. While lvling up there are 2-3 Expertise Items that are pretty good and get you easily to the cap, especially if you are taking your tree's expertise talents.
However, it's (ironically) a little bit harder to reach the cap with your epic set, as there is no expertise on the DPS Plate and only some Rings and the Belt from Razuvious (and a pair of Bracers if I recall correctly) got additional expertise. Compared to leather gear we've got very little "base" expertise per se on our items. There is only one Expertise Trinket new in Wotlk, and it's pretty bad for DK as it hase a on-use haste effect and because of that i'd go for other options like the bandit's insignia e.g.
To answer the Enchants Question:
There are no "must have" enchants as it is, but try to cap out your Hit and Expertise first, then go for Str and ignore enchants like haste.

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Old 11/06/08, 2:38 AM   #3872
Arkasi
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Daedalix View Post
what new enchants are out there that are must-haves for raid dps? I imagine +STR would be favorites, but anything out of the ordinary?
Admittedly I am not in the beta but from the resources at hand I compiled these enchants for Dk's

Boots:

DPS: Greater Assault
Tank: Greater Vitality

One to consider is: Tuskar's Vitality. Depending on the encounter this could be useful depending on the presence you choose to use or the aura you have (specifically unholy aura) so it is a personal preference thing.

Bracers:

DPS: Greater Assault
Tank: Expertise, Greater Stats, Major Stamina

DPS should always be behind the target so expertise is largely a non-issue and for the tank it will depend on your particular gear, I hesitate to give a long term answer for the tank as we don't know what will be on future tier gear.

Chest:

DPS: Powerful Stats
Tank: Greater Defense

Cloak:

DPS DW: Greater Speed
DPS 2H: Mighty Armor
Tank: Titanweave, Mighty Armor

Gloves:

DPS DW: Precision
DPS 2H: Crusher
Tank: Armsman, Expertise

As for weapon enchants I'd wait until we see more runeforging options for a definitive answer. I'll provide full wowhead links when my computer stops acting up.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:06 AM   #3873
CumpsD
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Sporeggar (EU)
Originally Posted by Frostx View Post
Uhh sorry for not knowing this but can you RAF summon your DK once he's 60+ ?
No, summoning abilities stop once you reach 60. The best you can do is save yourself a walk to Orgri when you are doing the tutorial line, and then you're over 60 and it's done

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Old 11/06/08, 6:11 AM   #3874
Frostx
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Death Knight
 
Korgath
Meh, no biggie then.. just abuse my mage as usual. Just thought i could get a fast port to the dark portal instead of taking the slow flight.

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Old 11/06/08, 7:26 AM   #3875
Paladia
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Stormscale (EU)
A simple question which I have yet to see addressed.
Lichborne breaks fear, will it also break sap, polymorph and hex or will it make you immune for the duration?

Last edited by Paladia : 11/06/08 at 7:31 AM.

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