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Old 11/06/08, 1:26 PM   #3901
Spiry
Piston Honda
 
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Draenei Priest
 
<TDM>
Stormscale (EU)
From the Project Lore videos I've seen (not having been in the Beta), the factions are split. The character they follow is a Tauren and we see Orcs, Blood Elves, Forsaken (or I guess still scourge...) and Trolls all running around and no alliance characters.

Originally Posted by Ulthwithian View Post
Paladins do have an ability to heal multiple people at once. It's called Divine Storm. ><

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Old 11/06/08, 1:28 PM   #3902
ansga
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Shaman
 
Alexstrasza
PVP shouldnt be possible within the DK starting zone, i believe all the death knights are considered of the same faction until they join their respective factions after the beginning quests are over. Even after you join your factions i dont think you can pvp in the area, can anyone else confirm this?

Last edited by ansga : 11/06/08 at 1:44 PM.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:29 PM   #3903
rhea
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Dunemaul (EU)
Too slow.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:29 PM   #3904
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3 View Post
What do you mean? 2s timer?
The rune addons I made clearly showed 10s(1s) cooldowns.

I'd like to collect the theorycraft stuff, too. Unfortunately this thread is waay too spammy to get anything useful out of it. In case you plan something, write me a PM.
A while ago we theorycrafted that after the first rune usage, there would be a hidden timer counting up to 2 before using the same rune again. I'll explain it with an example:

TimeAbilityRegen time
00:00:00Icy Touch10s
00:10:00F Activates0s
00:11:50Icy Touch10s
00:20:00F activates2s

As you can see in this example, you don't use the rune straight away when it comes up; but as soon as the Rune regenerated, a timer started counting up to 2. What we noted was simply that if you would use a rune maximum 2 seconds after it would regen it would substract the time you waited from the 10 second regen time.

So in the example we waited 1.5s, so the rune regeneration time was 10-1.5=8.5s

I was pretty sure I was seeing this behaviour a few builds ago when I was doing Naxx, unfortunatly I forgot to test it for the most recent builds.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:39 PM   #3905
pldcanfly
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Warrior
 
Baelgun (EU)
Originally Posted by Faerlun View Post
That seems odd to me, with most other results coming back having gargoyle better. Your results show that is true with over 8k AP, but I don't think 8k AP is realistic to hit very quickly. Am I missing something, did I misunderstand your results?
no, you interpreted it correct. I am a little confused to, so i will doublecheck it and run some other (theoretical) tests.
It is clear that drw will be better at 0 atp. But i assumed gargoyle would have passed it earlier.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:48 PM   #3906
Lazareth
Piston Honda
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Eldre'Thalas
With the recent changes to Summon Gargoyle (as per posted on MMO-Champion, "Summon Gargoyle now costs 50 Runic Power (up from 30) and lasts 10 sec plus 1 per 8 Runic Power. (Up from 1 sec per 8 runic power only)"), would it still be considered competitive to go 50/0/21 with Blood, or would that make 51/7/13 a better choice?

EDIT: (I could be really slow and this isn't new information, I've not had the chance to keep up with or play my beta DK for quite some time due to 3.0 hitting and raiding ... sorry if this is a retard question!)

Last edited by Lazareth : 11/06/08 at 2:01 PM.


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Old 11/06/08, 1:48 PM   #3907
Herrm
Von Kaiser
 
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Herrm
Orc Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by ansga View Post
PVP shouldnt be possible within the DK starting zone, i believe all the death knights are considered of the same faction until they join their respective factions after the beginning quests are over. Even after you join your factions i dont think you can pvp in the area, can anyone else confirm this?
You are correct.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:56 PM   #3908
Max
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Uther
Way too slow on my reply.

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Old 11/06/08, 1:59 PM   #3909
 Zurm
The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Bonechewer
To be more specific, while doing the starting quests you actually only see the races of your faction when not in Ebon Hold. While IN Ebon Hold, it is considered a sanctuary (like shattrath) and you cannot attack members of the opposing faction. This continues until you complete the final event, at which point you are sent to either Orgrimmar or Ironforge via a portal in Ebon Hold to pledge your alliegence to that faction. Ebon Hold continues to function as a sanctuary, but the quest area becomes a contested area in EPL like it is right now on live (and you wont find any leveling deathknights, as they are in a seperate instance).

Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.

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Old 11/06/08, 2:12 PM   #3910
Arkasi
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
This is just flat out wrong, the single most important stat to cap for any melee is expertise, until you have 6.5% chance to ignore dodges (and yes, even from behind). People should just not post "This is Best" posts unless they master the most basic mechanics, I think.
My apologies, I should have known better. I do however still feel that Greater Assault is the better choice depending on the spec. If you are deep blood dps Expertise is probably the better choice. But for Frost and Unholy where a larger portion of your damage comes from spells, Greater Assault would likely be the better choice.

Overall correct answer is without a doubt: Use a spreadsheet. This will get you the definite answer and there are three (I believe) very well designed ones floating around in this thread. My post was meant as a quick more general answer.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:05 PM   #3911
Faerlun
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blackrock
One of the newer changes announced was that boss armor is going to be increased by 10%, to put physical DPS classes, namely hunters, more in line with other classes. Now from what I have gathered, DK white damage is very low (10%-20%?). Outside of white damage, is there an approximate amount of damage dealt out as physical? I'd like to get an understanding about how much this armor increase is a nerf to death knight DPS.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:12 PM   #3912
 Zurm
The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Faerlun View Post
One of the newer changes announced was that boss armor is going to be increased by 10%, to put physical DPS classes, namely hunters, more in line with other classes. Now from what I have gathered, DK white damage is very low (10%-20%?). Outside of white damage, is there an approximate amount of damage dealt out as physical? I'd like to get an understanding about how much this armor increase is a nerf to death knight DPS.
The answer to this question depends largely on spec. Unholy does the most magic damage by far, as the primary strike is magic and there is increased disease damage. Frost does a good deal of magic damage as well via HB and increased IT damage, and blood is almost entirely physical with a bit of magic from diseases and DC.

Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:16 PM   #3913
Suno
Never challenge the throne.
 
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Goblin Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Lazareth View Post
With the recent changes to Summon Gargoyle (as per posted on MMO-Champion, "Summon Gargoyle now costs 50 Runic Power (up from 30) and lasts 10 sec plus 1 per 8 Runic Power. (Up from 1 sec per 8 runic power only)"), would it still be considered competitive to go 50/0/21 with Blood, or would that make 51/7/13 a better choice?

EDIT: (I could be really slow and this isn't new information, I've not had the chance to keep up with or play my beta DK for quite some time due to 3.0 hitting and raiding ... sorry if this is a retard question!)
Gargoyle is still superior. As unholy DPS, I was able to burn Gargoyle and still DC 2-3 times without risking losing him during the minute. In fact, I often had to to avoid generating RP above 100.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:17 PM   #3914
saiyajinmaster
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Ysondre
Depends on your spec, for instance as blood you're still mainly relying on physical attacks for the brunt of your dps (Heart strikes and whatnot), whereas if you're unholy you're barely using any (Assuming a 4 SS rotation), with Frost erring more towards the non-physical side as well if you're using HB. As far as hard numbers, without some really good spreadsheets or empirical data for all specs, the best answer is it's going to just depend on the talents you have. Assume it hurts blood more than the rest, though blood was buffed in the same patch anyway. It definitely affects DKs significantly less than the other melee.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:18 PM   #3915
Akaela
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Blade's Edge (EU)
Originally Posted by Zurm View Post
The answer to this question depends largely on spec. Unholy does the most magic damage by far, as the primary strike is magic and there is increased disease damage. Frost does a good deal of magic damage as well via HB and increased IT damage, and blood is almost entirely physical with a bit of magic from diseases and DC.
does this mean in theory with higher boss armour blood will be inferior for raiding?

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Old 11/06/08, 3:20 PM   #3916
Suno
Never challenge the throne.
 
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Goblin Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Akaela View Post
does this mean in theory with higher boss armour blood will be inferior for raiding?
It already is.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:32 PM   #3917
zirky
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by bucknasty View Post
It already is.
You're assuming its only contribution is personal dps. Blood can provide a fair amount more to raid dps through Abom's Might (if no enhance shaman is present) and Hysteria to make up for its slightly lower personal dps.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:34 PM   #3918
 Zurm
The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Akaela View Post
does this mean in theory with higher boss armour blood will be inferior for raiding?
No, not necessarily. This boss armor change is accompanied by Blood buffs. And Blood is currently extremely competitive... I wouldn't throw any spec out just yet, they are all VERY close in dps (I'd say within 2-5% of each other). In fact, I'm pretty sure 50/0/21 offers the highest sustained single-target DPS of any DK build.

Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:36 PM   #3919
Leaflock
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by bucknasty View Post
It already is.
No. Please don't post if you're only basing it on something you heard, rather than actual information or math. Blood is excellent, if not the best raid dps spec, depending on gear level.

Illundai, I'd be interested in helping out with the consolidated dps FAQ, since this thread is getting unwieldy and lots of new posters are coming in with misinformation-- understandably so, since it's hardly searchable for up-to-date information anymore. I'll probably PM you with some suggestions to include, or PM me if you have a question about something.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:38 PM   #3920
tzenes
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Stormscale
Originally Posted by Leaflock View Post
No. Please don't post if you're only basing it on something you heard, rather than actual information or math. Blood is excellent, if not the best raid dps spec, depending on gear level.

Illundai, I'd be interested in helping out with the consolidated dps FAQ, since this thread is getting unwieldy and lots of new posters are coming in with misinformation-- understandably so, since it's hardly searchable for up-to-date information anymore. I'll probably PM you with some suggestions to include, or PM me if you have a question about something.
I'd also be more than willing to contribute to an FAQ if you need anything.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:39 PM   #3921
jacclark
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Lightning's Blade
Would it be possible to divide up this thread into: DK - Levelling, DK - DPS, DK - Tanking? This thread is quite bloated and requires serious multi-tasking to follow the numerous sub-threads.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:46 PM   #3922
 Zurm
The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Bonechewer
I strongly support the creation of at least a tanking an dps split on threads. I'd be more than happy to write or help write a first-page post with some general info. I think throwing up the tables that Methods has provided us from his spreadsheet would also be awesome for a summary post.

Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:49 PM   #3923
Illundai
Bald Bull
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
I started working on a consolidated thread, but it is in fact a huge task to write a condense and clear overview of all that we know. If people want to help out with it, feel free to drop me a PM. I'm just writing up a draft at the moment and eventually we can add it to TTT, then I can just make everyone who wants to contribute an author. As for the amount of articles, I think one thread for DPS and one thread for tanking is more than enough.

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Old 11/06/08, 3:58 PM   #3924
Suno
Never challenge the throne.
 
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Goblin Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Leaflock View Post
No. Please don't post if you're only basing it on something you heard, rather than actual information or math.
My sentence was not based on some arbitrary guess or hearsay. I spent countless hours beating on test dummies in Beta up through the latest build. I tested in the premade PvP gear and in the full set of Naxx-25 gear I accumulated while earning every available raid achievement short of 25-man immortal. The highest sustained DPS I was able to muster reliably came from deep unholy. I tested every reasonable rotation and build. I've read every letter of this thread at least twice, but have only contributed regarding tanking. Don't discount a statement you're unsure of from someone you don't know as untested.

From my experience with level 83 target dummies, the increase to boss armor will only increase the (albeit small) disparity separating unholy from blood.

Last edited by Suno : 11/06/08 at 6:50 PM.

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Old 11/06/08, 4:00 PM   #3925
Suno
Never challenge the throne.
 
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Goblin Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Zurm View Post
I strongly support the creation of at least a tanking an dps split on threads. I'd be more than happy to write or help write a first-page post with some general info. I think throwing up the tables that Methods has provided us from his spreadsheet would also be awesome for a summary post.
Agreed. I actually have a DK tanking thread-opening post written, but unfortunately I don't yet have the minimum posts required to start the thread.

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