Andread

I made a wowhead armor filter for unholy using the values from the Compendium thread:

All armor with unholy values

This can be used to get a quick and dirty idea of how good certain gear is. Obviously a spreadsheet is better, but you can still do some interesting things with this, such as get a rough idea of what might be good while you're leveling:

lvl 75 armor on Wowhead

Or get an idea of how soon you'll replace a [Band of the Kirin Tor]:

Rings on wowhead

 

Falya

[quote=Solithaira;969384]The stun is most likely a non-factor on raid bosses. Also i'm pretty sure ravenous dead and shadow of death are picked up for the personal gain rather than the benefit it provides the ghoul.
[quote]

Aww...i like my little ghouly so much! The blood tree feels so boring without it.

But you guys are right. It's just not worth it in many situation while the 10% Damage and 5 Expertise are helping nearly always. Even if you can heal the ghoul it tears down your overall dps by a small amount(because you don't do DCs in this time).

I had so much fun with Corpse Explosion and the Ghoul(charging, stunning, nagging) that i think about to drop Blood gorged anyway. :P

I think i'll give it a try in combination with [Glyph of Death's Embrace] even if i loose a 2-3 % of damage(which isn't a sure thing on every boss and every situation but only when the ghoul dies(and i cannot just rise him again, because i don't have him on cooldown when i bring him to the boss alive)).

Thanks for your help anyway!

 

Flamingcloud

Wow this feature is great I never saw it before. I expanded upon your values and added armor, agility, attack power, and weapon dps so you would have a fully accurate item comparison. Just need to filter by whatever type of item you want. Interesting is that plate wins every slot but the slot where there is a leather leggings that are ilvl 226 and there are no plate ilvl 226 legs. Obviously it is going to be skewed highly to the items with +hit, but you can obviously figure out a best in slot gear set pretty quickly using this feature.

Items - World of Warcraft

Edit: Fixed Formula abit

 

Roywyn

Rune of Razorice

Have there been any changed to this Runeforge in the last weeks of beta?
Or is it still a +5% frost damage raid debuff?

If it still is a +5% frost damage debuff, you're more or less forced to have one DK with this debuff.
If you run with two mages, I can't see Razorice outdamage Fallen Cruader for total raid DPS, as mages have been more or less pushed into a Frostfire spec which gains full benefit of Razorice.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Clandestine

I kind of doubt that it stacks with spell damage increasing debuffs such as Curse of Elements, Ebon Plague, or Earth and Moon.

 

Suno

Regarding Horde tank races,

Tanks will obviously be needing to itemize to hit the expertise cap. Will Orcs have enough of an advantage using axes to free up gems or other slots that could then be used for stamina, thus overcoming the 5% base health advantage of Taurens?

I plan to tank as an orc for increased damage anyway, as threat was my only concern in Beta. Just wondering if I'll end up having more health as well since I'll have to allocate fewer gear points on expertise.

 

Wildstyle

Well, 1 Expertise = 8.195 Expertise rating

So 5 Expertise = 40.975 Expertise rating

Which would be the stamina equivalent of 40.975 x 1.5 = 61.4625 ~ 61 stamina (I guess)

Tauren base health is 9561 (not 100% on this), so the hp bonus from Endurance should be - 9561 x 0.05 = 478.

So in essence the Orc Axe racial has the potential for higher stamina gains than Tauren Endurance.

 

Clandestine

This is the kind of thing that takes all of 30 seconds to figure out on your own.

STEP 1: Discover the amount of expertise rating required for 1 point of expertise - it's 8.2 rating per point.

STEP 2: MATH! 5 expertise is 41 expertise rating, which is worth 62 stamina in terms of itemization.

STEP 3: Is 62 stamina equivalent to more health than the Tauren racial? It is.

CONCLUSION: In terms of pure itemization points, the Orc racial is superior to the Tauren racial.

Pretend that you have the problem solving skills of a 10 year old and work it out on your own next time.

 

Leart

I've been keeping up with this thread since the start, but finally found something I registered to contribute. First, I want to thank all of you for your work, it's been fantastic.

Wolstenholme 0f Frostmane was asking about how far into blood a frost spec should go on the live forums. He had taken Veteran of the Third War, which was met by a lot of heat. But I actually ran some of the numbers, and it looks like a frost tank might want to take Veteran of the Third War. Here's the results:

24/47/0 (Veteran Frost) vs 16/50/5 (Standard Frost)

Moving from Standard Frost, to Veteran, you get these changes:
-5% dodge
+ ~.15% parry (assuming T7ish gear with kings) This number will be slightly lower due to diminishing returns.

-6% damage
+6% strength
+3 Expertise (+1.5 % parry / dodge avoidance)
2% More Crit

+6% Stamina
*2 More points in Imp Rune Tap
* Mark of Blood

Damage Effect:
6% damage lost:
The expertise gives you back slightly less than 1.5% of that at a bit under .75% less chance of parry against you. But might keep your rotation more intact. I do not know how much the 2% crit, and 6% str would give back. I've not seen any theoretical ap to dps numbers yet in the Dps Compendium, and the search function doesn't work well for AP. How would I compare the stat's normalized values to the 6% loss in dps?

Clearly, 5% dodge is lost. But would the benefits make up for it?

 

Hidden

Am I missing something or are you assuming 6% Strength to be giving 3% Parry?
Some maths excluding diminishing returns:
49.18 parry rating per % parry
4 Strength per parry rating
6% increase in Strength

f(x)=0.06/4/49.18*x=(3.06*10^-4)x

3=(3.06*10^-4)x => x=3/(3.06*10^-4) => x=9800

I'm either missing something or you'd need 9800 Strength to get 3% parry from Veteran.

 

Roywyn

It stacked whenever I tested it. Last tests were late october, and I kind of doubt that it was changed since then.


It's pretty terrible design from both aspects.
* It forces one DK into using a Runeforge they don't want to use.
* It improves specs that rely on Frost damage and reinforces Frostfire as the only viable mage spec.
You hate it. We hate it. But we have to deal with it, whether we like it or not.

I was really hoping they'd scrap it or redesign it, hence I was asking whether someone tested very recently.
If nobody reports that it was changed, it should probably be mentioned in the DK DPS Compendium.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

tzenes

Ignoring healing (which alone proves this kind of comparison deeply flawed) a 1% increase in expertise is not equal to a 1% increase in damage...

Especially not for a class so heavily dependent on spell damage like a DK.

Not to mention that ilevel is not balanced around Death Knights.

Additionally, your rude tone seems excessive. Simply posting the math would have been sufficient, we don't require you to add insults as well. We are perfectly capable of passing judgment on our own.



Now, if you'd like to debate the merits of 1% avoidance reduction versus 5% health increase, we are more than willing to do that.


You're better off putting those points in bloody strikes.

Point for point, crit isn't worth much to a DK (and you can pick it up by dropping the dodge anyway).
Expertise is a little better, but nothing special.
The biggest bonus from the first spec is the extra strength, but even that isn't worth 6% damage.

Bloody Strikes on the other hand is better than a 30% increase on an ability that is making up 6% of your damage in a frost rotation (12% if you're not using those death runes).

Either way, the scaling on 6% to total damage is going to end up being better.

 

Minifridge

He said "in terms of pure itemization points" it is superior, and he's right.

 

Flamingcloud

Technically, in terms of pure itemization points is a completely invalid and useless argument. 5000 feral attack power would be more item value than 50 defense rating, but that doesn't make it better. The argument is x stam vs y expertise, and whether the threat is worth the survivability loss.

I completely agree with Tzenes that his response was overly rude and is not the kind of post we want here, you report bad posts, you don't belittle the person.

 

Zurai

Incorrect. The question to which he was responding was "Which has more health, Tauren with expertise items to expertise cap or Orc with an axe so I can use stamina in place of expertise items", to which the answer IS extremely simple to figure out for oneself and shouldn't need to be asked. The question was, indeed, effectively "which is more itemization points?".

 

Akuja

Anyone got a Tanking Compendium up yet, or is it still in development ??

 

Oxylos

This guy apparently has something and can't post it, other than that no word on a tanking compendium (which i'd love to see personally as well)

 

pldcanfly

It would be a good idea that bucknasty posts his post here, so it can be double checked, may be discussed, extended, and so on…

I like to see such a post in the near future, since with premade gear and my 73 death knight I wasn’t able to do much tanking.

 

Arkasi

It is still in development. For now though the DPS Compendium covers a large portion of the basics and will have a signficant amount of overlap. For the time being using the existing compendium will give you a good idea of how to generate threat. Two of the big differences will be analysis of tanking stats, and managing tanking cooldowns. Until said notions are formalized the dps comphendium is where to go for answers.

 

Vis

Those interested in DK tanking should check out these 2 threads of Taitlins at DK info.

Tanking Stats Spread Sheet

Tanking Rotations

 

Tenebri

I'm not sure it would be wise to use the numbers he is citing. I'm still trying to figure out where the inconsistency occurs, but I offer this example from the thread:

Frost OB/HB*fixed

Armor: 29855
Health: 32843
Chance to be hit: 37.36%
TTL Raw: 5.7 Sec
Average TTL: 20.7 Sec

The highest TPS rotation for this spec shows as 7041 TPS:

BS>IT>OB>HB || IT>BS>OB>HB

<Edit>: Using the threat modifier from tankspot as suggested would give frost a multiplier of 2.0735 and no additional bonus threat to rune or frost strike. This reduces the dps to a more reasonable level but still seems high compared to the dps theorycrafting and testing for pre-naxx gear. </Edit>

7041 TPS divided by 1.60 (Frost threat mod) * 1.15 (Blood damage mod) = approximately 5k dps for a tanking geared and specc'd Deathknight in pre-Naxx gear. Also some of the suggested tanking builds take the perma-ghoul talent in unholy which seems rather subpar.

Did I miss an intrinsic threat modifier to any of the abilities in his rotation? I ask because this seems in no way to match the results from those who were testing dps builds on beta.

 

Arkasi

Probably Runestrike, it hits really hard and has a 1.75 threat modifier. Since it is an RP ability and you didn't include those it probably fell through the cracks.

 

Aeryn

According to a post at TankSpot, Death Knight Threat values, the Frost Presence threat modifier is 2.0735, which is what
Taitlin seems to be using (2.07). So 7041 TPS = 3401 DPS.

 

Amare

First of, I really dont know much about DK Tanking so far, despite playing Beta since the tanking jobs for 25 as well as 10 man are pretty much set anyway but let me get some input on this, if it could work.

Concerning Tanking, how viable do you think it would be to modify the DW Tri-Specc for DPS into a DW Tri Specc for Tanking.
In theory it seems pretty appealing to me because you can get many of the early tier tanking talents from all speccs and the tanking stat gain you would get from dual wielding a beauty like Last Laugh would be greater than going with a slow 2h.
If you go into Frost anyway for tanking you also get a better synergy with Killing Machine.

Obviously there are drawbacks like increasing the chance of the Boss to parry you because of your attack frequency but that could be negated with enough expertise, which you could afford to stack more since you get a better stat gain from dualwielding.

2x Last Laugh compared to Betrayer of Humanity gives you +25 Stamina +62 def rating +68 parry rating +48 hit rating +74 strength -66 agility -87 crit -57 haste -226 ap.
Especially as an Orc with already 5 expertise, you could get another 6 from Veteran of the Third War and combine the Sta/Str Talents from Blood and Unholy while still getting deep enough in Frost to get Howling Blast something like 23/31/17 as a Tri-Specc with 1 point in BCB.

 

Vayeate

I've been lurking about this thread for several weeks picking up some good tips/ideas and I think I have my blood dps spec. I'm just stuck between DRW and SG.

Which is the better RP dump for DPS?

Edited for friendly lies :3