Necrosis doesn't scale with AP. Presumably BCB won't either, when it actually works.

"Necrosis seems to do better damage. Probably fixed the AP thingie in it or whatever, while it doesn't do a clear 25% of your autoattacks, it's pretty close, around 20%"

I think it's pretty clear from the talent's description that it's supposed to do 25% of the damage of your autoattack.
From the described state of various abilities,
I think that the description is more trustworthy than the implementation when it's unambiguous like this one is.

DWing will do more damage from autoattacks. Anything that does damage based on autoattack damage, like Necrosis and BCB, will do more damage when you have higher damage from autoattacks.

As for Impurity. helping DWing, well yes, thats not a big deal However given the impact DWing might have on Necrosis, BCB, Killing Machine, which all do spell damage as far as I can see, then improved spell damage from Impurity will add a little to this bonus too.

And Unholy Rune Mastrey says cuts in half per proc, if it can stack then DWing will certainly make it even better.

As for Necrosis and BCB not scaling with AP, what does that mean? Can you please provide a link to the evidence, and to the disigners say this is intended? (White damage scales with AP, so if they are 25%, 60% etc of white damage then they will scale with AP).

Trust me. I tested it just this afternoon. Necrosis does not benefit from attack power. I respecced to just Necrosis with no damage talents, and my Necroses were doing ~20% of the damage my autoattacks were doing. Removed all equipment but my sword and my Necroses were doing ~30% of the damage my autoattacks were doing - and the damage ranges were identical.

You fail to understand. Necrosis, Blood-caked Blade, and Killing Machine do not interact with Impurity in any manner, shape, or fashion. Impurity increases the AP scaling on DK spells that say "does XYZ damage modified by attack power" - namely, the actual, y'know, spells.

You do realise the class is still riddled with bugs, and that this is most probably another one? Reading the talent, its clear its supposed to scale with AP, because its supposed to scale with white hits (that are, obviously, affected by AP).

More AP - Higher white hits - Higher Necrosis damage.

I guess I wasn't clear. I know Desecration is a ground based effect, but unlike Consecrate it's centred on the mob you Obliterate rather than the player, right? My concern was, if it appears at the center of a large mob like a boss or perhaps those big northrend abominations then you could be more than 2 (or 7) yards away from their center and not get the unholy ground bonus. From what you said it seems it is appearing at the center of the mob and it could be tricky to stand in the unholy ground while hitting large boss.

I went to test this, and yeah it pops in the center of the mob. I took a shattrath portal and went into barrier hills to the gronn guy for the orgrila questline, he's rather big, and the circle popped under him, not me. However, it is definitely not a 2y radius circle, more like 7y like people pointed out, since I was still in it after taking a step back. It might force you to go into the model assuming a very big boss though. Not a big issue, unless you're trying to use it to tank, then it sucks because there's a lot of chances you'll be out of the desecration when tanking most bosses, and you can't move inside them since it makes them reposition.

I do trust you, but the talent is pretty clear on what it does. You know how buggy the class is right now, and I can't imagine that the talent is intended to behave the way it does now..
Do the strikes that do 100% of your weapon damage do 100% of a white hit, or of your weapons described damage? (at the normalized speed). That could take some calculation, if the attack power coefficient works the way it's supposed to.
(is that coefficient different or the same for 1h and 2h?
are the formulae like (white hit * 100% (or 60%) + APC * AP) or (weapon's damage *100% + APC * AP) ?
)


This interpretation of the talent is the only one that makes sense, regardless of testing
(though I suspect testing agrees)
Just makes your strikes and spells scale better.

sigh. would there be any exploitability if it was the width of the mob +5?

Couple questions about runic power. I assume only moves that use a rune or runes give the dk runic power. So how much RP do you get from 1 rune strikes like blood strike, heart strike, plague strike, scourge strike, etc? Is the number fixed or dependent on the damage the move does? Same questions regarding 2 rune strikes like death strike or oblit?

Also, how is the damage on summon gargoyle? I saw some builds where they went down far enough into unholy but didn't pick it up. Is it not as good of a RP dump than spamming DC's?

Last thing, the Night of the Dead talent, right now its a 2/2 talent but both points do exactly the same thing, meaning you could have 1/2 and get the full benefit of the talent. This is on calculators so I was wondering if its the same in game? If not what are the correct stats?

Runic Power is always generated at 10 points per ability that costs runes. Number of runes doesn't matter - this is intentional; Blizzard felt that if 2-rune or 3-rune powers generated 2-3 times as much RP in addition to doing 2-3 times the damage, you wouldn't ever use anything else.

Gargoyle's damage is really good, but it's a pain in the ass to keep up and it wastes like 5 seconds of duration doing its "flying into the area" animation before it starts attacking. The fact that it constantly drains runic power means you can't use any RP-based effects while it's ongoing unless you want the gargoyle to go away.

Night of the Dead is nonfunctional atm. This latest patch was pushed with Unholy in the middle of some big changes and a lot of stuff in the tree is broken right now.

As a side note, Abomination's Might stacks with eachother.

But I'm guessing it still doesn't stack with shamans UR? That, to me, still seems like a subpar implementation. An enchance shaman still brings utility and benefit to a raid in the form of WF and SOE totems, as well as BL, but if blizzard can rationalise having two (or more) percentile increasing procs from one class stack, then I have a hard time seeing why they would prevent it from stacking cross-class. It could very likely be a coding mistake or simple oversight on Blizzard's end, mind you.

I suppose one reason for the buffs not to stack, would be that Blizzard simply doesn't want to "force" people to bring both an enhance shaman, as well as a Bloodknight to every raid, because the benefit is simply too large to pass over, at least from the perspective of a progress minded guild. While it chafes me greatly, it does go well with the idea that you have several choices for a certain kind of buff, but it also means that unless you expect your melee dps to be taking large amount of damage(hello Loatheb), or a certain boss has a tendency to gain haste, there wouldn't be a particular reason to bring a Bloodknight to a raid. Hysteria is certainly nice on your top damage dealing rogue, but is it enough to justify the spot?

Speaking of Loatheb, has anyone done any preliminary calculations on how much healing a Bloodknight is able to provide his or her group with, given the inclusion of Imp. Blood Aura? Specifically, I'm thinking of it will be possible to cheese Loatheb in the same way that was done in Vanilla(with 3 shadowpriests), by filling the MT group with the MT+4Bloodknights. A way of preventing this would be to let each person receiving heals via IBA get the debuff. I know it's still quite a way off, but I've already been imagining guilds simply bringing 5 Bloodknights for their first Loatheb raids and I really hope it doesn't come to that.

Blizzard has said that they want to make class utility even across a lot of specs, I'm willing to bet they're going to make blood's health return with blood aura the same as a shadow priests and most likely buff imp lotp to spriest health return levels, that way you won't be forced to bring 5 dks.

Actually on my last run in Halls of Stone was 2 blood DK's and an enh shaman and I think they were stacking. Might have to double check.

All those abilities actually have max durations(gargoyle too). I believe 30secs for Blight, 1min for garg. You can definitely keep them up the whole duration if you're not spamming deathcoils and using all your runes though.

Gargoyle is actually very good now that they "nerfed" deathcoils. Usually with runic power mastery, you could get 30rp death coils, so you'd spam them really often. Now that it's at a fixed 50 per cast, gargoyle became much more interesting. It also was moved to an easy spot. Gargoyle has a "ramp" time, so if you pop it and don't generate RP, you might not even get one deathcoil out of it in dmg values. However, if you pop it at like 70RP then just keep spamming stuff, you can maitain it for the whole duration, and it does insane damage during that time. You get a deathcoil every 3secs pretty much with a garg up, but there's a 6-7secs launch time(gargoyle flies in, then target something/get in range, then starts shooting). Once it's going though, it pewpews hard, so I like it. You can't control what it attacks though, so for PvP usage might be very limited for example, and for PvE it's only good on bosses, or trash that's in a "safe" spot.

Blight is also pretty damn good now, it does good pulsing AE damage. Not very cool when you're doing trash in a packed dungeon I guess, but if your prot paladin is on a break, you can have a DK spec blight/desecration/morbidity/wandering plague/scourgestrike/pestilence and pop some serious AEing threat. The issue is still its placement, unless you go for a DPSish build, I don't see an unholy tank getting it(lose too much in the other trees), and for a dps build you'd probably be better off with a heavy blood build. Maybe if you need an ebonplague DK then it might be worth taking, but not even sure the usages are limited, it's pretty much only good for AE tanking, which you'll usually let a paladin do anyway.

I like Death rune mastery(and the high crit/blood strike fillers) in Blood, which definitely limits how many points you put into unholy. Death runes gives you a lot of flexibility when it comes to improvising stuff, and arguably helps with dumping runes for blade barrier procs by giving you obliterates or death strikes more often. Along the way you get Bloody Strikes for better blood strikes threat since there's not much to do with blood runes but this. Also like Annihilation, so you can obli without having to reapply your diseases all the time, again, flexibility on rotations. With those, you have little choice on what to take next. Obviously could drop the blood related stuff and go for unholy blight, I guess it'll depend on what is needed and so on. Hopefully respec costs will stay at 50g, so I'll just throw gold at my talents every day ^^.

No idea about blight scalability, I'd supposed it's shit since it's an instant AE, consecration is rather low iirc, it should be around that. To be honest I've been too lazy to test scalability on everything, patches change too many things so I'd have to restest every week, which somewhat sucks.

Actually, Blight doesn't have a max duration. You'll note all the others say "up to xyz time" EDIT: or generating runepower doesn't prolong the effect. UB doesn't.

Of course, right now it's bugged and you get 20 seconds regardless of how much RP you generate or don't generate.

Not many points left over. 5/14/52 still sacrifices some "essentials" for Annhiliation which is even more essential, assuming they fix Scourge Strike to not do more damage than a 3-disease Oblit.

I assumed pyros was in beta..
I'd agree with you from the wording of the talent,
but I can definitely see why they would give it a max time.

But think of the awesomeness of tanking inside desecrated ground with a swarm of bugs flying around you and d&d everywhere...

Simple beauty.

I don't see how Death Rune Mastery is helpful for a tanking build(not sure I even like it for a Blood DPS build). Since you're using 1F 1U to get those Death Runes...how does that help you dump runes? In a tanking situation, the only way I could see Death Runes(generated in that manner) be helpful is to spam pestilence or if you really needed to lay down a DnD next rotation. As you said, there's nothing much to do with blood runes, frost runes has icy touch(cooldown, no point in spamming anyway) and obliterate(costs the same as death strike), and they just changed the cost on the only spell that cost more than 1U.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

What essentials am I missing with that build? I would like Runic Power Mastery, but I don't consider it essential.

Upon reading that, I noticed they actually changed it, haven't played much since change. So yeah scratch that, it's semi worthless now. I was talking of the old version that was 16% on every rune to become a death rune.

So yeah that frees up quite a few points, even though I'd argue on some points on your build in unholy(no dirge, no unholy mastery even though it goes against blade barrier it's still useful considering the number of unholy runes you need and ebon plague is situational at best, depending on your locks and caster ratio).

As for Blight and cooldown, I know the tooltip doesn't state a max duration, but the buff that pops states 20secs, so I assumed it was like gargoyles and could only stay for 20secs, whatever you do(garg is 1min). The tooltip being different, it might be supposed to work indefinitely, but don't know. Definitely doesn't currently anyway.

Didn't they remove the CD on Icy Touch? Still, not much point spamming it.

How long does the Unholy Ground effect from Desecration last?