◊ s4dfish

Do ghouls inherit any stats from what they're created from or are they all vanilla?

And on the Seventh Day, Tank Time rested.

 

Zaroua

Talents that directly "improve" or get stronger in any way, shape or form with extra haste:

-Bladed Armor
-Two-Handed Weapon Specialization
-Dark Conviction
-Bloody Vengeance
-Blood Rune Mastery
-Blood Aura
-Will of the Necropolis
-Blood Gorged

-Nerves of Cold Steel
-Black Ice (if it works with Necrosis properly)
-Killing Machine

-Necrosis
-Blood-Caked Blade
-Unholy Rune Mastery



So no, I wouldn't consider Haste a "terrible stat" just yet. Probably not the best stat for some DK specs, but not even remotely close to worthless.

Dogma also claims that God has a sense of humor and at times presents Him as a joker of sorts, thus again lowering Him to human level. While I am certain God has a "sense of humor" since He gave it to us, I find it most difficult to believe He finds humor in sin since He will cast the unforgiven sinner into the lake of fire for eternity. Not very funny at all.

 

nevinera

Terrible means nothing like 'worthless'. The point is that it is significantly less useful per ilevel spent than are most other physical stats.
Thus an item with its budget spent on strength, crit, and hit will be much better than another item the same level with its budget spent on haste, agility, and ArPen, all of which are worth something.

But a list of what *talents* are affected by haste is basically useless.
The only thing worth knowing is what portion of your total dps haste has an impact on -
you made a list of talents that affect white damage, which is affected by haste.
2h white damage is around 25% of total at the moment.

(I don't have numbers yet, but haste may be worth stacking with DW -
I'm guessing white damage with serious gear is closer to have of a dual-wielder's damage.

 

Quasar

I'd like to see haste affect our rune cooldowns before I'd consider it a decent stat.

JUICE! Aww I'm sorry. Did... did anyone want some juice?

 

Rebellion

If you want to utilize shorter rune cooldowns in any way haste would have to affect the gcd of our strike abilites as well. There is no point in a shorter rune cooldown if you can't fit them all into your 10-x cycle anyway. A 10 second cycle already means alot of stress, because you have like 1 second spare time at best if you want to fit in six abilities, which is obviously the goal at the moment. Yes there is unholy presence, but it looks like it will deal less dmg than blood presence in most situations.

 

nevinera

Unholy prescence does significantly more damage than blood does in any situation where you can use all the extra gcds you get.
Yellow damage decreases by the 15%, but you get 50% more of them.
edit: this generally means you have a fast weapon, haste, and brm or urm.

If haste affected rune cooldowns, it would be our best stat. Probably by quite a bit.
But then ask a rogue how he'd like it to affect his energy regen..

 

Manbearpig

I have one question regarding Blood Boil and Death Grip:
The tooltip wording points towards them both being real taunts i.e. giving you 100% threat in addition to giving you aggro for a few seconds.
Is that how it is currently implemented?
I did see a lot of people call Blood Boil an AoE Taunt, but thats exactly what people call Challenging Roar/Shout.
So I would appreciate a clear answer.

 

Rebellion

It might be some major misunderstandig I have here, but how will make any of the rune masteries a rotation even possible ? I might be my mistaken here but I still think a relyable rotation is worth more than random spamming cooldowns. How can I build up and establish a rotation or something like that if some of my runes keep proccing random at any given time ?

But yes, you are right. If I had a rune mastery of any kind unholy presence might be more precious at a point where 15% additional dmg of the basic rotation (if you can call it "rotation" after all) is less than the dmg of everything you can do in the gained 4 gcds. Even hasted rune cooldowns seem usefull in this case.

 

Hearteater

Has anyone in beta done much PVE with Blood? Are you finding it has RP issues? Looking at it, I'm feeling like it would have trouble generating as much RP as Unholy or Frost. Scent of Blood's 20 second CD seems a bit high. Cooldown aside, the "next melee hit" seems clunky. A simple, "5 RP when struck by ranged/melee" would fit right in with the concept of Blood. Actually, "5 RP whenever you are overhealed" might be even better.

On the PVP side of Blood, I realize DKs have issues holding people in melee, but does anyone find that overly extreme without Chilblains or Desecration? I was wonder if changing Heart Strike to: "Targets of this attack cannot benefit from haste or movement increases for 10 seconds." might help it some.

 

Prepared

Now there's an interesting addition. It wouldn't be slowing down anyone who doesn't already have a movement advantage over you. The only way to then outrange the DK would be to snare them, or use an instant getaway ability, like Blink, Shadowstep to another target, or some form of charge.

 

◊ Bryne

WoW Forums -> Tanking / Threat and Taunt Mechanics

They are both true taunts.

 

Disargeria

I guess you haven't seen this:

WoW Forums -> > Full Death Knight Review <

Ghostcrawler posts nearly every day at this rate, it's important to keep up! This is really useful:

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Death Knight

 

Septus

Hmm, I like the design aspect of that, but I'd really hate to lose the freeze effect, from a flavor point of view.

 

Pyros

Well yes and no, while the freezing aspect has some interesting synergy with frost mages, it'd still make it into arguably the best snare in the game, since it starts at 100%snare anyway. At 1frost rune, with a 20(talentable to 25 or 30 I forgot)y range, non dispellable, sadly it'll see some nerfing since it's way beyond expectations imo. I'd give up the freeze shatter combos for that, even though I can see all the whinning already, between death grip and a snare that starts at 100%.

 

Lamaros

The level requirements for the DK runeforging is an interesting one. The DPS ones look to me to benifit Dual Wielding the most. Have I mised come comments anywhere about internal cooldowns that make this not the case?

Deathknight - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information

 

Prepared

I have a question concerning the rotation theorycrafting for DPS... let's say one of the abilities is parried (zomg), or dodged. Would you pause and go back to that point in the rotation, or continue on as if that didn't happen? I'm used to my Retribution Paladin on live, where if something misses, it's not like I have any other options.

For example: if your Plague Strike missed, or Icy Touch resisted, do you still Obliterate, or replace that with some equivalent maneuver, since the damage increase will not be as high as expected for the rune cost?

 

nevinera

Razorice, cinderglacier, and FallCru all use the words 'has a chance to'.
'A chance to' almost always means it's on a ppm.

In the case of FallCru I believe it's at 1 ppm?
At any rate, DW won't cause it to proc extra. It does benefit DW more than 2h, but only barely, and only because DW gets more from AP.

 

Muarf

It depends on what attack missed. If your Icy Touch or Plague/Scourge Strike missed, you might have one less disease and then your Blood / Heart Strikes will do less damage, but on the other Hand diseases already affecting the target might fade before you can continue your rotation.

You have to balance what you missed and how much less damage you will make until next same attack in your rotation against what you will lose if you take one more GCD to reiterate the attack.

 

Quasar

You mean tanking as Blood? I was writing a thing about Blood instancing DPS until I realized you didn't mean PVE like I mean PVE. =P

JUICE! Aww I'm sorry. Did... did anyone want some juice?

 

nevinera

Rotation theorycraft doesn't allow for parries.
Stand behind them, not in front of them, or you'll be hurting your tank as well as losing dps.
You'll also be hit-capped, if you're using a 2h at least. Certainly your yellow damage won't be missing.

IT uses spell resist, right? So we won't be capped on that one? (think it's a higher number)
In general, what to do depends on your spec. Anyone with icy talons will be recasting it, anyone without Anni won't be, etc.

I hadn't been considering IT's resist chance in my theory, thanks for the reminder.

 

Mithar

There is a middle ground between a "steady rotation" (by which I am assuming you mean that you hit the same buttons int he same order every cycle) or "random spamming cooldowns." Look at it as a list of priorities. Rank the abilities you want to use. For the purposes of an example, let us assume you have 3 abilities you want to use. If the top priority is up, use it. If it isn't, go to the second. If, after using the second, you can use the first again due to one of the rune masteries then use the first again, if not go to the third.

Using the list of prorities does work. As a ret pally, I use that approach now and am holding my own against other dps rather well. Yes, you have to pay more attention than if you get to mash the same buttons in the same order every time. The advantage is it tends to be more interesting and, in my experience, more reactive to the situation--like when "runes keep proccing randomly."

 

nevinera

This, if you have the skill.
Even doing max dps with a retadin isn't all that easy, and DKs have a lot of cooldowns and durations to pay attention to.
I expect it to be a very involved class to play properly :-D

If you don't, I suspect you'll be able to decently with a set rotation and a few rules for 'what to do if'..
Especially if you avoid the rune masteries and spec for annihilation.

 

Feorthas

So, i've been doing some tanking/threat theorycraft as of late and came up with the following rotation, ignoring miss/resist issues:

Open:
IT -> PS -> (Deathchill + Howling Blast) -> BS -> BS -> FS

Middle:
Obliterate -> Obliterate -> Obliterate -> FS

Infinite Cycle:
IT -> PS -> Obliterate / DS -> BS -> BS -> FS -> *wait* -> Obliterate / DS (2x) -> IT -> PS -> FS -> *cycle intelligently*

Plusses:
-open + middle sustains near 1800 TPS (by my math, tried to lowball everything) with 2100ap / 20% crit / 130 dps 2h @ 3.6 (if everything hits)
-plenty of time to burn extra runes from a mastery (3 free gcds during waiting periods)
-2 death runes rather often (deep frost + blood of the north(?))
-perma +10% parry

Minuses:
-middle let's the IT haste buff AND debuff drop for a little
-only 5 RP available after middle so your only oh shit button is lichbourne
-deep frost misses out on a number of unholy toys
-not many points where you'll ever have a free rune for an oh shit moment without intelligently modifying the cycle and sacrificing threat
-I can't post a talent build because iPhones can't copy/paste :-/. Just go 50-some points in frost to get the good stuff, 10-15 blood, and 8-10 unholy. A number of talents were in flux anyway *shrug*

Thoughts?

 

Zurai

Misses, dodges, and parries aren't too bad if you don't have a rune mastery up unless you get several in a row (from a tanking, Blade Barrier perspective). They refund the rune cost to you, so you can just try again, but the rune actually does get spent for a half second or so, so Blade Barrier refreshes. You might have to play catch-up for a round of rune cooldowns, but Blade Barrier shouldn't drop from a single dodge/parry. With a rune mastery, they're really dangerous.

In a DPS sense, you shouldn't ever miss, get dodged, or be parried. You shouldn't have much problem getting hit capped, and attacking from behind the boss means that you have a lower expertise cap (since bosses have much more parry than dodge but they can't parry attacks from behind).

 

Flopi

What would be the best race tanking wise for DK at alliance side. Human because of Sword expertise or is WotLK so full of expertise gear that I can play Draenei without a care in my mind? Not that Draenei +hit racial would be a bad thing.