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Old 07/27/08, 1:58 PM   #751
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
Pyros's Avatar
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
They explained why Heart Strike is not instant though, so you can apply it first thing on a mob by queuing it before getting into melee range, and not wasting damage that will then be "deleted" by the -20%hps. Makes sense to me, and if you have a spare blood rune, Blood Strike does more damage than Heart Strike with like one disease up. If there's no disease up, you should probably not waste a blood rune on heart strike anyway and wait for diseases. As for refreshing it for raid bosses, I doubt it'll work, or be capped enough that the effect will become useless before the duration is done considering the raid damage.

So yeah not a big issue. Now frost runes and Frost Strike, another story, in the current state the only thing you can do is icy chill(and howling blast if it's off cd). I know it's getting boosted, but it's still a low boost. Instant Frost Strike though, that's a lot of damage, should make frost a very viable DPS option.

I hope they patch soon, lots of good changes and probably lots of stuff not yet known.

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Old 07/27/08, 5:14 PM   #752
Buanna
Piston Honda
 
Troll Shaman
 
Hellscream
Originally Posted by Zurai View Post
Deep Wounds is the %-critical-damage as bleed talent, right?

In that case, no, it doesn't, because BCB is a fixed-damage disease. At level 65, it does 200 damage/3 seconds (dunno if that changes with level or not). It works just like re-applying any other non-dynamic DOT before it wears off.
This isn't correct. If you spam any DOT in reapplication before a tick, that DOT never does any damage.

That's how it works on live anyway. Considering the number of ways they've added to refresh DOTs with spam attacks, I hope they'd fix that in WotLK.


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Old 07/27/08, 5:26 PM   #753
• Chicken
Mod
 
Chicken's Avatar
 
Gnome Monk
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Buanna View Post
This isn't correct. If you spam any DOT in reapplication before a tick, that DOT never does any damage.

That's how it works on live anyway. Considering the number of ways they've added to refresh DOTs with spam attacks, I hope they'd fix that in WotLK.
It depends on HoT/DoT in question actually. Some of them will never tick, others will keep on ticking at the same rate regardless of when you refreshed them. The typical difference lies in between stacking versus non-stacking HoTs/DoTs. Lifebloom and Deadly Poison both continue ticking at the timer as determined by their first application. Non-stacking HoTs/DoTs like Renew or Corruption never tick if you constantly refresh them.

It should probably be extended so any proc-based over time effects keep ticking at the same rate when refreshed, as it's a bit silly to get less effect from a HoT/DoT simply because you're proccing it too often.

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Old 07/27/08, 6:08 PM   #754
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Hmmmm. I never noticed that with Serpent Sting.

Of course, I don't exactly spam Serpent Sting, either.

Sorry, my mistake. I'll check and see if BCB works that way the next time I spec deep unholy.

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Old 07/27/08, 6:25 PM   #755
Darkrenown
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Aezoc View Post
Haven't seen it mentioned here yet - frost strike will be instant (source). I still think it should be RP-based instead of taking a rune, but this is an improvement at least. Hopefully heart strike also becomes instant.
There's another blue post later in that thread too:
Awesome feedback, guys. Keep it up!

I'm not sure if it made the talent trees, but we changed Frost Strike to be an instant attack with no chance to Freeze but bonus damage vs frozen targets. Use Chains or get a random freeze and then use Icy Touch (if talented) or Howling Blast at range or Frost Strike in melée.

We'll talk about some of the other feedback, especially Death Strike.
Also in that thread, someone mentioned Frost strike is still affected by armour. Can anyone confirm that? I thought the point of FS was all the damage was Frost thereby bypassing armour. Still, even if armour affects it I suppose CoE will help it and whatever debuffs frost mages put up.

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Old 07/27/08, 6:49 PM   #756
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
Still, even if armour affects it I suppose CoE will help it and whatever debuffs frost mages put up.
Not to mention Frostfever and Ebon Plague.

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Old 07/27/08, 8:55 PM   #757
Eej
Soda Popinski
 
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Eej
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
I'm still not seeing how a deep Frost build could ever compete with a 52/19/0 or 52/0/19 build. Just take my Runic Power suggestions for the Frost tree from the beta boards and leave it be as a Tanking/PvP tree.

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Old 07/28/08, 2:59 PM   #758
Cabal
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Warrior
 
<N/A>
Turalyon (EU)
I can confirm Obliterate is getting the bonus from improved blood strike talent, thats what´s making it ridiculously good atm then .

Still, even without it, my preferred rotation for soloing remains degeneration - obliterate - repeat. Full use of all runes, minimal clicking, great damage.

Edit: makes me wonder, blood strike feels so weak, maybe its not getting any bonus from imp blood strike talent? I´ll test that after raiding.

Last edited by Cabal : 07/28/08 at 3:11 PM.

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Old 07/28/08, 3:59 PM   #759
Zurai
Bald Bull
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Zurai View Post
I'll check and see if BCB works that way the next time I spec deep unholy.
I havn't been able to determine this, yet. I plan to go to blackfathom and beat on gamoo-rah a bit with dual wielded weapons and see if I can get it to multi-proc consistently.

I did confirm that all the shadow-damage bonuses increase damage on BCB and Necrosis, though. With a non-optimized build, my Necrosis damage was 34-37% of my white damage and my BCB ticks were going to over 350 damage (200 base).

Also, Wandering Plague double-dips damage bonuses. It takes the initial damage of the disease (modified by bonuses), then deals that damage modified by bonuses to everything within 8 yards. I had a BCB wandering plague tick for 500+ damage.

EDIT: Just noticed that BCB is 250 damage at level 70, so that explains a little of the "Wow, where did all that extra damage come from". It's absolutely double-dipping bonuses, though.

Last edited by Zurai : 07/28/08 at 4:54 PM.

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Old 07/28/08, 5:59 PM   #760
Caligula
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Priest
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Chicken View Post
It depends on HoT/DoT in question actually. Some of them will never tick, others will keep on ticking at the same rate regardless of when you refreshed them. The typical difference lies in between stacking versus non-stacking HoTs/DoTs. Lifebloom and Deadly Poison both continue ticking at the timer as determined by their first application. Non-stacking HoTs/DoTs like Renew or Corruption never tick if you constantly refresh them.

It should probably be extended so any proc-based over time effects keep ticking at the same rate when refreshed, as it's a bit silly to get less effect from a HoT/DoT simply because you're proccing it too often.
To add to this confusion, Shadow Word: Pain will be overwritten if you cast it on the same target twice (and restart the ticks) however, if you use the new talent Pain and Suffering - Spell - World of Warcraft and refresh SWP using MF, it will continue ticking at the normal rate.

I don't think there is any pattern or rhyme or reason really, some DoTs just get refreshed while others get overwritten, and in the case of SWP it's both.


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Old 07/28/08, 5:59 PM   #761
Eej
Soda Popinski
 
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Eej
Troll Hunter
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
I can confirm Obliterate is getting the bonus from improved blood strike talent, thats what´s making it ridiculously good atm then .

Still, even without it, my preferred rotation for soloing remains degeneration - obliterate - repeat. Full use of all runes, minimal clicking, great damage.

Edit: makes me wonder, blood strike feels so weak, maybe its not getting any bonus from imp blood strike talent? I´ll test that after raiding.
Already did these tests: WoW Forums -> [BUG] Obliterate is ridiculous

Obliterate does more damage because it's normalized, counts stacks as individual diseases and gains bonus from Imp Blood Strike.

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Old 07/28/08, 6:25 PM   #762
Code/Didymus
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Hyjal
Hey there guys. I'm Didymus on the beta (Northrend) one of the few level capped Death Knights right now. Figured I'd show my face in a productive forum and see if I can answer any questions/help with any testing etc. that people are interested in having done. So... if you have anything I can do or answer to help things along, don't hesitate!

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Old 07/28/08, 6:38 PM   #763
Sinazeel
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Code/Didymus View Post
Hey there guys. I'm Didymus on the beta (Northrend) one of the few level capped Death Knights right now. Figured I'd show my face in a productive forum and see if I can answer any questions/help with any testing etc. that people are interested in having done. So... if you have anything I can do or answer to help things along, don't hesitate!
Alright, here's one. Can Army of the Dead (a channeled spell afaik) be interrupted by something like Counterspell? And what abilities get locked out in the process? As well, what abilities get locked out due to silence effects?

Basically, what DK abilities are counted as "normal" abilities (like a Rogue's or Warrior's) and which are counted as spells? This might've been answered already, but a lot of the initial pages are alpha stuff that might've been changed by now.

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Old 07/28/08, 6:39 PM   #764
Septus
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ravenholdt
He's level capped at 77, Army is a lvl 80 spell.

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Old 07/28/08, 6:50 PM   #765
Code/Didymus
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Septus View Post
He's level capped at 77, Army is a lvl 80 spell.

He's right. level 80 spell. As for what can be silenced, CS'd etc. It's not too many effects. I'd go and check if the beta wasn't down to be sure before spouting off with information I'm only "pretty sure" about.

Icy Touch (20 yard range slow for casting/melee/ranged) can be silenced. Death Coil can be silenced. I don't think any of the strikes can be silenced, I don't recall explicitly any time where I was trying to strike and couldn't because of a silencing mechanic. Death and Decay obviously, the frost talented AE's and all that can be silenced.

The level 80 ability seems a little special, I wouldn't bet on it too much either way, but my bet is you won't be able to silence it. You also gain some survivability from your dodge/parry that I don't quite understand yet. The tool tip for the skill is very nondescript at the moment. It's also channeled... which is not similar to anything else a DK is doing before that point, so there's not a lot to compare it to.

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