Deathwing

This is much different. Chances of a hunter on a ten man raid are much higher than a malediction lock or enhancement shaman.

Secondly, the Death Knight has to be tanking in order apply the buff, while the hunter is guaranteed to always have that buff up. Fights like bear and lynx in ZA will show the weakness of Frigid Dreadplate.

 

msg

I'm agreeing with you on this. The fact that fridged dreadplate only procs on bosses hitting you means that for all intensive purposes it's a self buff... and they've generally been making all self buffs + biggest external buff (with windfury haste, with improved curse of shadows) stack.

 

kriS411

Well, only thing is that the other class doesnt use this "Base Skill" the most time.
There arent bosses, not even Brutallus where Scorpid Sting is nessecary and the most top end guilds wont use it cause it cost shitloads of mana and is a DPS sacrifice for the hunter.

 

nevinera

Source?
I think you're full of it.

 

Septus

I'd be slightly miffed if Insect Swarm was 5% and didn't stack with Frigid Dreadplate. In the case of an enhancement shaman and windfury, perhaps in a 10 man, that shaman could just drop wrath of air instead if imp. icy talons is available; there's a useful alternative for the shaman.

For moonkin, the vast majority of time(or always, if some scaling factor favors just moonfire later on) the Moonkin will want to cast insect swarm no matter what, for the damage it brings.

 

nevinera

They never replied, Don't take them not stacking as gospel. Anyone tested yet?

edit: process for test

Get a healer and a hunter,
Let a servant beat on you for 5 minutes, then let it beat on you for 5 minutes with scorpid.
Report avoidance percentages, number of attacks, number of misses for each.

 

Rakki

To those of you who are fortunate enough to participate in the Beta, I would like to ask a few questions:

1. How does Blood-caked Blade work with dual wield? Does OH swing proc blood-caked strike on OH or MH?

2. Which specs actually favour dual wield?

3. Does Icy Talon (and imp. Icy Talon) work on boss mob? I deduced that it doesn't, based on the description of the talon. If the slow effect of Icy Touch actually work on boss, it will be overpowered, I reckon.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

Deathwing

2. You can figure this out yourself quite easily. Just find talents that work better when you get more hits/crits or are straight multipliers of your white dps. Examples of the first would be Blood Rune Mastery and Unholy Rune Mastery. Examples of the second would be Necrosis, Icy Talons, and Blood-Caked Blade. Typical DW builds would be tri-spec. Blood up to hysteria, frost up to Icy Talons, unholy up to BCB.

3. Please search the thread, this was answered before. Icy Touch works on bosses, it won't STACK with other slows. Wouldn't make much sense to have a talent like Improve Icy Talons and then not have Icy Touch work on bosses.

 

Pyros

Icy Touch works fine on bosses, just like Thunderclap works. It's not overpowered. No idea about your DW question, and haven't tested DW BCB.

 

Hisstok

BCB works OH procs the MH weapon as of last time it was mentioned
You've got to assume a 25% chance to proc up to 200% damage with all 4 diseases up will be pretty crazy with DW and will probably be subject to nerfs.

 

nevinera

15%, which works out to a 30% damage increase to white damage (perhaps more if it's pre-armor reduction).

Did they take off the 20s limit on swarm?
It's weaker than windfury, but it is a bit strong for unholy at the moment.
It would be fine if they fixed the offhand issue and made it post-armor reduction -
even with DW, our white damage shouldn't go past about half of our total.
(especially with unholy's 4-disease oblits)

 

novasphere

To be fair, right now there's a Druid Glyph that boosts Insect Swarm damage by 30% but removes the -hit% component. You still have an alternative if you're rolling with a Dreadplate DK.

 

Prepared

You know, I was about to go see if that was kind of like a weird version of the old Windfury, or whatever, by beating on a Servant for an hour or so. I'll see I can't get the log posted after work.

 

msg

If you go look up end game balance druids, a lot of them (if the fight doesn't require it) skip using insect swarm. It's efficient in terms of damage per mana, but it does very low damage for the 1.5 sec GCD so DPS wise, if you could afford the mana, your time was better spent just casting starfire,

 

novasphere

I hate to repeat the mantra, but we don't know how things will be at end-game WotLK.

 

Prepared

Small flaw in my experiment: I do not have any mods installed here on this machine, and both WWS and the parser I got from Curse either do not properly parse the data from the combat log (unrecognized format) or they don't show me minimal damage.

So I did it again with Recount, and here is the data. Keep in mind the damage is with absolutely no diseases, procs (except Bloodworms), trinkets, or anything.

So far, I'm 700 white hits into the test, and noticing something disturbing. The proc percentage seems really, really low. Here's a sample of the data, dual-wielding:

White damage:


Blood-Caked Blade damage:


(ignore the abilities. those were done to kill an add that my bloodworms found tasty, before I moved back to a spot out of range of pathing mobs)

Is it just me, or is the proc percentag way low for BCB? Here is another test, re-pulling the same mob (no add this time), and with only a single one-handed weapon:

White damage:


BCB damage:


At the end of this, I'm a little too tired to go doing the numbers, but just napkin math is disappointing so far. Any thoughts?

 

WiPe|Domin

Well you where just autohitting and BCB scales with number of diseases on the target so its natural that with no diseases used in your test the dmg is pathetic. Try with keeping diseases up.

 

Disargeria

It's not the damage, it's the number of procs. It's at 6% and 8% of his autoattacks.

 

P51mus

A quick calculation of % hits shows the blood caked strike as being 8.2% of your total melee hits. What are the speeds of the one handers you're using?

My gut instinct tells me that, the procs being about half what they should be, blood caked strike is only proccing on the main hand and not the offhand. Which hurts it for dual wield a lot.

 

Prepared

The damage was not what was in question, it was the proc chance and if the proc used MH or OH damage when it calculated. If I did this with diseases up, depending on uptime, the numbers would be skewed. I know it was going to do poor damage without diseases.

 

Hearteater

From your data:
7% of hits/crits/glances proc'd BCB while DWing
9% of hits/crits/galnces proc'd BCB while 1Hing

Only way that makes sense if they changed it to PPM. I'd be curious if the percent goes higher when you use a 2-Hander instead of just single wield one of your 1-Handers.

 

Disargeria

Hence the last two screenshots, done with only 1 1hander. I thought that was the case, too.

 

Prepared

I'm using a pair of these in the first test, and a single one in the second test: [Footman's Longsword]

 

P51mus

When you can dual wield, and you have nothing in the offhand, I thought you punch with the offhand instead of not attack at all? And the mod would record those punches as hits, no? Or am I wrong about this?

I remember a while ago near the beginning of WoW when some rogues thought that dual wielding penalty applied to skills as well, and would use some kind of "held in offhand" item to turn dual wielding off. I think, anyway, could be remembering wrong.

And has a baseline test been done with a two hander?

 

Prepared

That's a good question. I'm going to use my [Helboar Carving Blade] right now, just to check the percentage. It's enchanted, though, so damage will be a little off. I'll post back here in about a half hour.

I was watching myself, and no punching was going on. From my experience with my shaman, I'm 99% sure that only happens if your MH is disarmed (or breaks) and you have a weapon in your OH. No weapon in the OH means it doesn't even get checked when attacking.