Is it intended by obliterate to wipe all diseases (not only your ones).
Like if 2 dks are fighting one mob and i use my oblierate, it wipes all diseases, not just mine.
But when i wipe all, i only get benefit for my own diseases,
For pve with more than 1 dk it seems not intended that one dk can wipe all diseases.
No idea if it's intended, I reported it a few times, maybe just not high on their priority list. When I did the ring of blood event, I had a weird spec(unholy testing spec, so like all points in unholy), and I obliterated all the diseases from the other 2 DKs quite a few times, which sucked ^^. Not like the event if hard anyway, they'll need to tune it, nagrand one was quite interesting, this one I'm sure it's duoable with a tank+healer of any kind. We had 3DKs(2bloods and me as full unholy) and 2retadins, and I think I needed like 2heals total for the whole event, heals that I could have provided by myself with death strikes anyway. Might have had to do with the retarded DPS though.
Sounds like it's time to go farm me a [The Blackrock Slicer]! Though in all honesty, it'd probably be easier for me to just go get a [Corpsemaker].
Then there will be lots and lots of striking.
Grab a grey or white weapon with a tiny damage range and a weapon speed that is different than the normalization. [Blacksmith Hammer] is a good example. Be sure to hit things with the same armor every time (monsters of different levels have different armor). Critters would work best. Rats in the Deeprun Tram or the pigs outside Orgrimmar work well. Once you have your data set, take your numbers and work backwards to find out if you're getting AP / 14 * weapon_speed or AP / 14 * normalization_speed damage.
Grab a grey or white weapon with a tiny damage range and a weapon speed that is different than the normalization. [Blacksmith Hammer] is a good example. Be sure to hit things with the same armor every time (monsters of different levels have different armor). Critters would work best. Rats in the Deeprun Tram or the pigs outside Orgrimmar work well. Once you have your data set, take your numbers and work backwards to find out if you're getting AP / 14 * weapon_speed or AP / 14 * normalization_speed damage.
Oh well, the experience taught me something: bloodworms do not make soloing instances fun, they make it a chore.
EDIT: Nevermind, that won't work. I get the error "must have a Melee weapon equipped in the main hand".
What's the problem with Bloodworms in instances? Pulling adds?
You can get weapons with a low damage range at every lowbie vendor.
Even capital vendors like usually have sufficent weaponry for that, like Dolman Steelfury - NPC - World of Warcraft
I hope you don't hate me for that now
Also - did you remember any simultaneous procs of BCB while dual-wielding?
It might still be that it is a flat 15% proc, but with an internal cooldown to prevent insta-gibbing lottery.
Your numbers so far would likely support a mechanism like that.
So ran a few preliminary tests, but this stupid server keeps going down, and I'm gonna eat/level my 5boxing RAF accounts now. I ran some tests to find AP coeff for spells. I used this formula:
Coeff= (Damage Done - Base Damage)/AP
Found it on wiki.
Deathcoil=0.25
Corpse Explosion=0.156
Gargoyle=0.26 (went back to high school and did some math to find out base damage, which is 498 per bolt, with a small margin of error due to approximations)
Icy Touch=0.16
Pestilence=0.042
Stangulate=0.02
Death and Decay=0.044 per tick
Unholy Blight=0.039 per tick
I'll do the rest later, when the server stops crashing.
Pyros, for DnD, I assume that's the per second coefficient?
Also, can you check how Impurity works? Is it the same as Warlock's S&F? For instance, the +damage coefficient for shadowbolt would be 3/3.5 + .2. It would be awesome(but overpowered) if Impurity worked the same way.
Pyros, for DnD, I assume that's the per second coefficient?
Also, can you check how Impurity works? Is it the same as Warlock's S&F? For instance, the +damage coefficient for shadowbolt would be 3/3.5 + .2. It would be awesome(but overpowered) if Impurity worked the same way.
For D&D yeah it's per tick. I can check impurity later, but as I said, the euro server is being crappy as hell, keeps going down every 15mins, and it takes a while to get to blasted lands from the DK necropolis. I'll give it a try at 3AM or so before I go to bed, try to run some tests on howling blast and blight, and then I'll check impurity on deathcoil.
Alright, so here's the results of a couple of hours off-and-on of whacking rats.
Stats:
1104 AP
3.80 SPEED
387-432 PAPER DOLL WHITE DAMAGE
No talents which increase the damage of any strike were used, and I was in Frost Presence.
MELEE (~1,000 hits)
Normal hit
387-430
Critical
773-861
OBLITERATE (~520 hits)
Normal hit
676-719
Critical
1357-1438
HEART STRIKE (~480 hits)
Normal hit
262-289
Critical
525-577
I was going to have Plague Strike in there, too, but I was an idiot and put points into Vicious Strikes. :B
Though, for what it is worth, I have some numbers for that. Take into the account the small sample size, and the fact the crits are supposed to have 30% damage increase. I'll probably go back tonight or so and do a test for Plague Strike and, I dunno... Frost Strike?
PLAGUE STRIKE
Normal hit
220-246
Critical
510-562
"were death knights lol whats the worst that could happen"
"You get nerfed."
What's the problem with Bloodworms in instances? Pulling adds?
Worms and Ghouls will attack anything that is red to you and within a certain range, even if you do not have that target selected or if you are out of combat. The only time this doesn't happen is when you are mounted and running through an area. Best I can tell is that range is roughly 20-25 yards.
Obliterate is normalized almost perfectly. Heart Strike seems off though, way too low. Your base damage should be 87.34 to 132.34
.6*(87.34 + 1104*3.3/14)+115.2 = 323.74
.6*(132.34 + 1104*3.3/14)+115.2 = 350.74
What am I doing wrong there?
Plague Strike is a bit better. Normalized is coming in a bit too lower compared to your numbers, and non-normalized is coming in too high.
Non-related question: does Dancing Rune Weapon copy your every melee attack that you do(white and yellow) or does it have a mind of its own and attacks whatever it feels like(but still using your melee attacks). I'm basically wondering if you can count on double dps while DRW is up, or is something harder to model?
I'd like to know if there is a certain breakpoint where a combination of character screen weapon damage and critical chance will make a Heart Strike > Heart Strike > Oblit > Oblit > Heart Strike > Heart Strike > Oblit > Oblit rotation superior to Icy Touch > Plague Strike > Heart Strike > Heart Strike > Oblit > Death Coil > Heart Strike > Heart Strike > Oblit > Oblit (or refresh diseases instead of last Oblit).
I'm thinking of this build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...00000000000000 where you don't spend talent points into disease talents to make room for more DPS/utility talents (Blade Barrier/Bladed Armor). With the 60% crit damage bonus on Obliterate and Heart Strike compared to only 30% for Plague Strike and nothing for Icy Touch and the fact that Icy Touch gets no benefit from a scaling weapon damage - but the Plague Strike debuff will scale better with raid debuffs compared to Obliterate.
So could anyone who's more math-able than me post some napkin math to compare this with a "normal" rotation or this idea just plain unworkable?
Last edited by Zaroua : 08/15/08 at 8:28 PM.
Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory
Let me see if I understand the question correctly, you want to know if there's ever a point where rotations of 2x Heart Strike & 2x Obliterate are better than the standard one where diseases are maintained?
Basically, you lose 494 damage from each Obliterate, and 246*1.6 damage from each Heart Strike. I would have to know the specifics on Frost Fever and Blood Plague scaling before I could make that call. Pyros?
BTW, how does raid debuffs favor Obliterate more Plague Strike? Unless you're just talking about crit change debuffs?
Let me see if I understand the question correctly, you want to know if there's ever a point where rotations of 2x Heart Strike & 2x Obliterate are better than the standard one where diseases are maintained?
Basically, you lose 494 damage from each Obliterate, and 246*1.6 damage from each Heart Strike. I would have to know the specifics on Frost Fever and Blood Plague scaling before I could make that call. Pyros?
BTW, how does raid debuffs favor Obliterate more Plague Strike? Unless you're just talking about crit change debuffs?
Basically yes. But it also lets you gain more talents to spread around (no need for Annihilation or Blood Strikes, meaning points in Bladed Armor and making Necrosis easier to get).
As for Plague Strike and Obliterate: I wrote the wrong thing (I'll edit my post for clarity). The Plague Strike debuff will scale better because of raid debuffs increasing magic damage.
Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory
Obliterate is normalized almost perfectly. Heart Strike seems off though, way too low. Your base damage should be 87.34 to 132.34
(snip)
Plague Strike is a bit better. Normalized is coming in a bit too lower compared to your numbers, and non-normalized is coming in too high.
I agree that Heart and Plague Strike both seem to be off. I am going to try them both again, perhaps without any talents at all, to see what could be causing them to be so drastically different. I suppose to be thorough, I should also check a one-handed weapon.
"were death knights lol whats the worst that could happen"
"You get nerfed."
I don't think you'll be able to offset the loss of the disease damage and the disease bonus of both oblit/heartstrike with better gear. Diseases currently tick for like 300-600(depending on disease, build, AP and whatever else affects them, it seems pretty random). Each of these disease add to all of your strikes. What is sure though is, putting 2points in epidemic will let you skip disease every other rotations, and that will be superior to applying diseases every rotation.
Does ProcWatch still work, or something similar? I can't find a version that's been updated anything this year, much less something I think would work in the beta. Procodile fails, so far. :x
"were death knights lol whats the worst that could happen"
"You get nerfed."
Does ProcWatch still work, or something similar? I can't find a version that's been updated anything this year, much less something I think would work in the beta. Procodile fails, so far. :x
Isn't Recount enough? Could always log combat then use DIY(do it yourself) ^^. I assume procwatch was broken with combat log changes, but there might be a new version.
What is sure though is, putting 2points in epidemic will let you skip disease every other rotations, and that will be superior to applying diseases every rotation.
Also, can you check how Impurity works? Is it the same as Warlock's S&F? For instance, the +damage coefficient for shadowbolt would be 3/3.5 + .2. It would be awesome(but overpowered) if Impurity worked the same way.
There were some tests done in alpha in this thread:
The result was that Impurity increases your attack power contribution for spells by 25% (taking the updated talent into account). So the formula for calculating total spell damage with 5/5 Impurity would be:
Damage = BaseDamage + Coefficient * (AP * 1.25)
I guess it's worth checking again since the coefficients for Icy Touch and Death Coil seem to have changed from alpha.
Isn't Recount enough? Could always log combat then use DIY(do it yourself) ^^. I assume procwatch was broken with combat log changes, but there might be a new version.
I guess you're right, since I basically need to check the timestamps on procs and figure out if those are within a certain timeframe of one another. It's something I could do with the combatlog and perl... but I'm just lazy. :P
Also, to answer some PMs I received about my screenshots, I am using an addon called RuneHero to keep track of my runes. Currently you can get it here:
The thing that changes up Unholy's rotation more than anything is Epidemic. You should be able to skip the Icy Touch and Plague Strike the second time around and just wail away with Obliterates, Blood Strikes or the new Blood Boil
What is this "new Blood Boil"? I haven't heard anything.
After too much time on blood specc, last two weeks i have been trying out Unholy (awesome, love it) and now frost. Apart from its amazing burst damage, there are a couple of things that dont seem right.
Like for example, the talent Killing Machine. Five points for a spell crit after a white crit? Seems way too much to me, I did try it, but (and this is while solo questing mostly), the most it did for me was providing a howling blast crit on the next mob, that didnt even have frost fever of course. Reduce it to maybe 2 talent points, for 50% and 100% chance each. Also frost rune mastery, in practice, is next to zero... I dont even have the CD to fit an extra icy touch, usualy.
Like for example, the talent Killing Machine. Five points for a spell crit after a white crit? Seems way too much to me, I did try it, but (and this is while solo questing mostly), the most it did for me was providing a howling blast crit on the next mob, that didnt even have frost fever of course.
If you had runic power available pre-Howling Blast you could Hungering Cold to apply Frost Fever... Just saying .
Like for example, the talent Killing Machine. Five points for a spell crit after a white crit?
Guys, I have two words for you in regards to the Killing Machine talent: Frost Strike. Usually I lead off with Icy Touch before I even lay a sword on the guy, then PS, Oblit, BS, BS. If Killing Machine procs, pop Frost Strike. If not, refresh Icy and do another rotation.
Killing machine also procs a lot when dual wielding I guess, making it pretty interesting.
As for the new bloodboil, they haven't gone into details, but from what GC said, it'll be spammable(so I guess it's not a taunt anymore) to do damage, and replace pestilence for that, while I guess pestilence becomes the new AE taunt. Nothing confirmed yet, I can go search for the quotes if you want but they've been pretty vague anyway.
08/15/08, 1:41 PM
.
Similar Threads
