Pyros

About Rune Strike, GC said the current implementation fails, and how it's supposed to work is being a true instant(no GCD), which might prove to be fun, especially in a DW build.

Source: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Rune Strike:

Also Path of Frost(waterwalking) is removed upon any damage and stuff like that, someone asked earlier.

 

Valderen

Something needed to be done, DRW is a lot of damage when it's up. I think they should have lowered the damage rather then a longer cooldown.

In the time that it will be up...it's still gonna be pretty powerful, so not sure if it really fixed anything.

 

Flopi

According to this Rune Strike is intended to be off the GCD.

edit: Pyros was faster this time and also thx for the Frozen Path update.

 

Deathwing

60 RP feels like too much. For the situations I imagine I would need it, I'd like to have it available almost right away. Let's assume you start a pull at 0 RP and it's an AE pull. It will take you at least 13s to build up 60RP. If you don't have AE control by then, 13s is far too late to try to assert it.

I thought the low initial cost + RP drain per second was a great fix to this.

 

Eishara

I don't get the point of Rune Strike, they changed Kill Command because the way it triggered and worked meant people just put it into macros which they didn't like... and so they make Rune Strike work in the exact same way? Seems a bit backwards to me but whatever, should be a useful skill for DPS.

 

Thorakk

I'm not disagreeing but it seems to me that spending 10 runic power on a macro could create more problems for a player than an insignifigant mana cost.

 

Caggy

Rune strike was the idea to add an extra mix to your rotations. Yes, it probably is just going to be macro'd into something, even with its cooldown.

I decided to try out frost this build, so went a 15/51/2 build at 77.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...00000000000000

Some sort of psudo tanking build. Though I think epidemic is going to be much more important than any points in conviction.

Damage doesn't feel too different from my old blood build, less personal healing since I'm using my UF's for HB and Oblits.

Might as well install Recount and take a look at the parsing. Even if its just grinding.

 

Prepared

I agree, the cost is pretty high. Even if you had both Dirge and Chill of the Grave, opening with DND and then IT and a Death/Plague/Scourge Strike, that would be about 6 seconds, or so? A Paladin could already have pretty good control by the end of that time, while doing other things.

"were death knights lol whats the worst that could happen"
"You get nerfed."

 

Pyros

Yeah new UB is not so great. I hope they change it to what it was, like, use 10-20RP to boot, then lasts 20secs max, and consumes the rest of the RP in the duration. Lets you start it earlier, while keeping the 60RP cost. Once you get it going, you can keep it permanently pretty much(as long as you fight), but the start is slow. You definitely want Butcher to keep more RP between fights for example.

Chill of the Grave is pretty buggy(dirge is probably too), it seems to add the RP on random stuff. Like, I pull with Icy Touch, I get 20 RP, then howling blast and I get 10RP, then I use plaguestrike, and get 20RP out of it(I suspect 10 from scourge and the 10 from howling blast that were moved). The 130RP is nice though, I'm swimming in RP even with frost strike.

 

Mild Confusion

Death Knight blue pvp set. I don't think they are finished with it though. There is no glove bonus or 4 piece bonus. At least I hope it's not finished and they are not gonna go live with it like that.

 

delany

I don't know were the problem with UB. It is not a Tanking spell to my understanding, there for you have DnD.

 

Prepared

Fair enough, but the damage would definitely be very nice for AoE tanking, since they removed the taunt from BB.

"were death knights lol whats the worst that could happen"
"You get nerfed."

 

delany

So what?

DnD tool tip: This ability produces a high amount of threat. and this is not new.

 

Pyros

Tanking or not, it's not practical for AEing because by the time you can turn it on, at least one mob is dead assuming they're normal mobs, and pretty much everything is dead if it was an AE pull. The issue with it is, the only way to maitain it decently is when it's used as a single target damage spell on boss fights. That's pretty counterintuitive for an AE.

 

Clandestine

Yeah, I was posting about that in the thread they linked. Ghostcrawler was reading and responding to my posts so I'm hoping that they change their mind on how to implement Rune Strike, Kill Command is not fun.

 

Valderen

It's different then kill command though...it cost 10RP. If you bind it to all abilities and you crit twice in a rotation...that's 20RP less per rotation. Since you generate about 60RP or less in a rotation...it means you might not be able to use AMS, IBF, Death Coil, Frost Strike or any other RP abilities in a normal rotation.

As Frost, I am not gonna compromise a FS for the Runic Strike...unless I have RP to waste...which I think is what the ability is for. I mean it's one FS every 2 rotation...and 3 Runic Strike do nowhere near the damage 1 FS does...at this time anyways.

 

Lapp

Hello again, DK friends. With Frost being FotP (flavor of the push--ha, ha), I've done some theorycrafting with a Frost raiddips rotation.

The idea is fairly similar to what I did with the Blood rotations the last time (top of page 57), except with slightly different abilities and different RP usage.

The spec (14/50/7): Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Obviously it could be tweaked considerably, but the 48 in Frost (what the spec has minus Lichborne and Unbreakable Armor) are absolutely necessary for gooddips. Epidemic seems to be a must-have, letting you have less diseases in your rotations, but if someone can show me a 12-second disease rotation that has the potential of working better (due to IT actually doing allright dips), please do so. The Blood talents I've chosen seem to make the most sense, though it's possible Bladed Armor may be better (if Conviction is only melee crit? honestly not sure).

Time to copypasta from previous post! D:

I've made a chart for this rotation, and the columns are structured like so: the first denotes the time, and the interval is a GCD (1.5s - I'm assuming 0 haste rating for this, though it shouldn't affect the rotation if you have a little--just more empty time), except for twice during a rotation where you wait 2.5s, due to rune CDs being 10 seconds, which does not divide 1.5; the next denotes the skill being used at that GCD; the remainder of the columns denote which runes and how much runic power is available immediately before said skill is used (an available rune is denoted by 0.0, and an unvailable one is shown by the amount of time available until it activates, in seconds); for RP calculation, each used rune ability provides 10 RP, except Icy Touch and Howling Blast due to CotG, obviously; there's a gain of 1 RP / 2.5s from Butchery, and FS costs 40 RP. I'm currently not using RS in this, seeing as it's currently unusable; it will be in the future, but we don't know the exact way it'll function nor if it will be worth using (damage/RP better than FS?).

Key:

IT - Icy Touch, PS - Plague Strike, HB - Howling Blast, OB - Obliterate, BS - Blood Strike, FS - Frost Strike, -- denotes an empty GCD
B - Blood, F - Frost, U - Unholy, RP - Runic Power.

A bolded GCD indicates a 2.5s interval from the previous; a bolded rune timer indicates that that rune is being used at that GCD, and this also applies to RP (omg I changed my chart! I think this makes it easier to see). I'm also bolding all Frost Strikes--explained later.

The chart goes through two iterations of the rotation.

If you understood the charts in my first post, this one should be no problem :P

So, minor spec variations aside, this seems like what you'd want to do as Frost DPS. If you notice the bold, in the second iteration of the rotation, you're able to use 3 Frost Strikes, and in every subsequent one, also. When Rune Strike is changed, however, it may be worth using, so you would probably only have 2 FS per rotation. To be determined later, I guess.

Another point: using CDs is more cumbersome with this spec, as you'd have to cut out an entire Obliterate in order to use Unbreakable Armor (if you have it). Thankfully, Deathchill and Lichborne (if you have it) are not on GCD.

Anyway, that's all.

 

mrboh

Yeah, I'd say that's what happened.

 

Pyros

To be honest, as frost spec, I doubt you'll ever use Rune Strike. Frost Strike is insane damage, because it's affected by a ton of talents, and ignores armor. Rune Strike, once it's fixed to scale with AP, is still only 100%weap dmg while frost is 100%+a big number+big modifiers such as black ice, glacier rot etc. Guess we'll see, but currently frost strike is simply monstruous, it's like old oblit pretty much, but not rune based. I guess it depends on how much RP you can use in a standard rotation though, it'd be a good way to stabilize RP if you're generating more than you can burn on FS without destroying the rotation.

Frost is funny cause like, you're doing these big huge hitters, then you run out of frost runes/rp, and you pop the usual stuff, and you do like 400plague strike 600blood strikes(in comparison, icy touch hits for like 800) and it's like, why am I doing specials for less than my autoattack. Weird stuff imo, but very fun in the current state for leveling. It's a bit weak in the healing department, so I speced vendetta in blood(so have 0 in unholy, which explains the terrible plagues), and I can pretty much chain kill very fast. I'll upload a quick stream video later to show the current stuff. But pretty much, the howling blast change alone made frost go from meh to awesome.


Edit: Since it's not worth making a new reply, here's a short video of frost currently:
frostgrind.avi - FileFront.com

 

coolballer

Currently as frost, there is no reason to use rune strike... at all. You have so many abilities which are better. I do like the concept of rune strike, but currently with frost at least, there are plenty of other superior abilities which do at least weapon damage in addition to other added effects. I did find that as blood spec, with obliterate no longer gaining from Might of mograin, I did fit rune strike into many rotations... but as frost there is really no reason to use it over the myriad of superior abilities available.

Currently as frost, I am getting 4700ish howling blast crits and up to 10k frost strike crits. Not to mention that if my initial icy touch, howling blast, and frost strike don't crit, I still have plague strike, and 2 blood strikes left in my rotation to regain more runic power for more frost strikes. As you can see, with this kind of dps potential, it is hard to justify using rune strike currently.

 

Clandestine

It doesn't matter that Frost Strike will do more damage per strike than Rune Strike - Rune Strike costs 25% as much Runic Power as Frost Strike - it will simply ALWAYS be the single most efficient damaging Runic Power ability. It will ALWAYS be best to bind Rune Strike to every single ability, for PvE DPS.

 

mrboh

Rune Strike is meant to be off the GCD so you can't really compare it to Frost Strike or any of the other strikes really (source).

I don't really understand the purpose of the ability to be honest. Unless you're hugely starved for RP then as mentioned you can just bind it to every ability and get close to a free 200% weapon damage per rotation with zero work required, as long as your crit percentage is reasonable.

 

Aéquitas

I got the feeling people forget that Runestrike has a 5 sec cooldown. In 10 seconds a Frostknight generates 73/74RP if I go by Lapp's chart. This will mean If I use Runestrike every time its of cooldown I will still have 50 RP left so I can do a FS or DC and then have 10 left for the next RS etc.

Instead of doing 5 froststrikes in 43 seconds with 37 RP to spare you will do 9 runestrikes + 3 froststrikes. So even if runestrike is the better dpsmove it will not mean it replaces your froststrike.

++ Its a nice way to improve your dps.
-- It will probably not be "used" much and instead be bound to all skills.

 

Pyros

The fact it'll be macroed in stuff will probably get it changed though, I doubt they changed kill command to add a new KC to another class, doesn't make much sense.

 

coolballer

I was not aware it was not intended to be on the GCD. When it gets fixed it will definitely be worth using at every oppertunity, but as it stands with it eating a GCD (at least it seems to be doing so for me), I can't justify using it.