Does frost strike and howling blast follow melee rules to crit and hit like scourge strike? I never actually tested it myself and never thought about it untill GC mentioned how SS is working. I'd assume that FS would follow a similar rule while HB would work like a normal spell. But I haven't seen it confirmed either way.
Edit: Nevermind, I just read about runic focus. Nice touch.
Additionally, am I correct in saying that Epidemic is rather pointless if you have desecration, due to the fact you'll be wanting to hit Plague Strike every 12 seconds anyway?
Epidemic is still good for frost fever and aoe pulls togehter with pestilence. Would be nice if they increase the duration of desecration though.
With the latest buffs to obliterate, is scourge strike still better for unholy? Think someone was mentioning earlier that ss does not scale well in raids as obliterate.
Epidemic is still good for frost fever and aoe pulls togehter with pestilence. Would be nice if they increase the duration of desecration though.
With the latest buffs to obliterate, is scourge strike still better for unholy? Think someone was mentioning earlier that ss does not scale well in raids as obliterate.
A single Frost Rune is pretty much useless, you're just going to use it on Icy Touch anyways. It would be nice if they made Epidemic effect Desecration.
edit: that is, for PvE. For PvP Epidemic is decent because CoI is a huge Frost rune hog.
Epidemic is still good for frost fever and aoe pulls togehter with pestilence. Would be nice if they increase the duration of desecration though.
With the latest buffs to obliterate, is scourge strike still better for unholy? Think someone was mentioning earlier that ss does not scale well in raids as obliterate.
How long does desecration last? thought it as 20 seconds...
Oblit is going to be better than SS once the glyphs are in place. 120% weapon damage is going to realllly put it over the edge, and the loss of disease damage is very small compared to the gain.
Edit: I just checked the Beta forums, and the spell coefficients page was updated, some buffs and nerfs, but dammit Blood Boils was lowered. I guess they didnt want it to be a viable replacement to Blood Strike >_<. Kinda ruins my DW unholy spec now...
Someone on the Beta forums made a point I'm kinda interested it. How do you think DK dps will fair on trash? Especially multi-mob pulls where applying diseases to each mob will be difficult, time inefficient, and possibly impossible (due to Rune availability)?
At the moment, I guess we operate as full AoE on multi-mob pulls without CC (so, IT, PS, Pestilence etc), but what about pulls with crowd control?
Apologies if this has been covered, I only joined the discussion around page 60ish.
Oblit is going to be better than SS once the glyphs are in place.
I'm not sure if that specific glyph is in place, but I know for a fact there ARE DK glyphs on beta, as I'm currently using 3 major ones on mine.
Originally Posted by bathoz
Someone on the Beta forums made a point I'm kinda interested it. How do you think DK dps will fair on trash? Especially multi-mob pulls where applying diseases to each mob will be difficult, time inefficient, and possibly impossible (due to Rune availability)?
At the moment, I guess we operate as full AoE on multi-mob pulls without CC (so, IT, PS, Pestilence etc), but what about pulls with crowd control?
I personally dont see trash mobs dying that quickly early on that it will be too much of an issue. It's definitely a problem though, but if blizzard can find a way to fix that without making us too OP in PvP, kudo's to them (my idea would be to have disease apply to your weapon instead of the target... but that would create new balance issues). You could get by with a quick IT/PS on each without TOO much issue.
Last edited by Zurm : 09/25/08 at 9:16 AM.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Someone posted a link to a beta guy who had up to date coefficients for all but HB, he had Unholy Blight at 1% per tick. Sounds about right, puts it way below the other diseases anyway. Also, is the base tick damage of diseases at 80 really 127? the way they scale i would think it would be lower. Disease dps is insane and can usually come close to matching an entire rotations dps.
According to my spellbook Blood Plague is base 44.5 per tick while Frost Fever is 36 at level 80.
Frost strike got a lot better last patch and doesn't feel any better now. I think the mechanic change went in then and the tooltip didn't change untill now.
Also, the DK flying mount actually looks decent now, pics on deathknight.info.
Seems like IT and DC were pretty much reverted back to thier old damages before the nerf. IT does qite a bit of damage as an unholy/frost spec. DC is eqally impressive.
That combined with a niversal free 100% crit mod on spells makes rotations with double IT qite viable again.
I just did about an hour of testing DPS on a lvl 80 dummy with my PvP geared DK as blood spec and it's still too low, I think. I was too stupid to turn on /combatlog but I'll do another test later on tonight.
With a 53/13/07 build the numbers were quite disappointing: averaged at 1650-1700 dps.
Death Coil & Icy Touch damage is quite good now, so its definitely worth improving those. Melee is still the biggest portion of our DPS, that's why Icy Talons is so good I guess.
Although, I'm not quite sure Recount allocates Ghoul damage properly, or so it seems.
I recorded a combat log of a 51/13/7 spec on the ?? boss dummy in ebon hold, but WWS doesn't work with the beta log files so I don't know what to do with it. I was getting around 1600 DPS (up from 1200-1300 from pre-latest-patch), but I didn't pop out my ghoul.
I did two runs, both were 5 minutes. One in Blood Presence and the other in Unholy Presence. They both gave me roughly the same numbers, with Unholy Presence being a bit higher, iirc, due to the increased rate of my attacks ... i think ...
If anybody knows what I can do to make my combat log useful, please enlighten me.
EDIT: The rotation I used on both was IT > PS > HS HS > Oblit Oblit > HS HS HS HS, throwing in DC, Horn or DRW whenever I was sitting on cooldowns.
I just did about an hour of testing DPS on a lvl 80 dummy with my PvP geared DK as blood spec and it's still too low, I think. I was too stupid to turn on /combatlog but I'll do another test later on tonight.
With a 53/13/07 build the numbers were quite disappointing: averaged at 1650-1700 dps.
Death Coil & Icy Touch damage is quite good now, so its definitely worth improving those. Melee is still the biggest portion of our DPS, that's why Icy Talons is so good I guess.
Although, I'm not quite sure Recount allocates Ghoul damage properly, or so it seems.
It does make sense, with these changes. I think the results we saw from specs before were due to the fact that the attacks to refresh diseases were extremely weak, so your dps benefited from anything you could do to minimize using them (i.e., Epidemic and Annihilation together).
As for Icy Talons: Most of my Recount summaries pre-buff (I was busy yesterday and haven't been on the beta yet) showed white hits as around 30-35% of my dps. I'm guessing that's going to be less, since strikes and spells are doing so much more. So, it's essentially a 5-6% dps increase for 5 points, and now much more accessible for Blood if we don't need Epidemic. Compare that to going Unholy, where you get Necrosis (~3% for 5 points) + BCB (~2.5% for 3 points) for your white hits. Roughly the same overall, but factor in the other talents you're getting or trading off in each tree, and Frost seems like the sub-spec to go now for Blood dps. I'll try it out this afternoon.
One more thing-- I see some dps specs choosing Toughness over Glacier Rot, presumably for the damage increase from Bladed Armor. However, I have not observed my strength to increase when armor goes up from Toughness or even Frost Presence. Does anyone know more about this? Confirmed bug, or intended mechanic? Fixed now?
Bladed armor does not poll your armor very frequently for updates so it can remain in-accurate for some time.
To be more specific, it takes at least 30 seconds for the strength-> armor calculation to be updated. This happens every 30 seconds, so it could be near instant or take the full 30 seconds.
Oblit is going to be better than SS once the glyphs are in place. 120% weapon damage is going to realllly put it over the edge, and the loss of disease damage is very small compared to the gain.
I seriously doubt it.
Scourge Strike, with all applicable talents + Blood Presence, does 103.56% weapon damage + 195.74 extra per disease and bypasses armor. Obliterate glyphed with the same talents and presence deals 159.39% weapon damage + 96.96 extra per disease and is mitigated by armor.
Let's assume your weapon swings for 2000 (pre-Presence) and you have all 4 diseases up on an enemy with 20% armor mitigation*. SS will deal 2854 base damage, while Oblit deals 2860.5. Pretty much even, right? Wrong. Scourge Strike crits for 230%, while Oblit crits for 200%. Assuming a 25% crit rate, that brings us to 3781 expected damage for SS and 3575 for Oblit.
This is all self-buffed, and completely ignoring the considerable amount of damage diseases and Wandering Plague are dealing (they combine for ~30% of my DPS atm). In a raid situation, with extra stacking magic damage buffs and with the need to preserve diseases for the other DKs, Scourge Strike will still be king.
*My premade's average damage is 1233, for the record, so 2000 is pretty high.
Is Runic Focus new or has it been in for a while? The WoW Beta DK forums are talking about it like it was just implemented. I've not seen anything on it before now, but I'm also not the most observant person in the world.
Runic focus is new and passive. GC posted that its intended, should give us some more burst damage.
Thanks to the people who reported bugs, but I still need to find more.
I also wouldn't mind if someone started up a list of Gear from 5mans and h5mans for me to add in.
I still have the following questions;
Have we worked out a formula for including runic strike damage yet?
What about rime?
What is the frost dps spec/rotation?
What about ghoul dps (now that the nerfs have gone through)?
Scourge Strike, with all applicable talents + Blood Presence, does 103.56% weapon damage + 195.74 extra per disease and bypasses armor. Obliterate glyphed with the same talents and presence deals 159.39% weapon damage + 96.96 extra per disease and is mitigated by armor.
Let's assume your weapon swings for 2000 (pre-Presence) and you have all 4 diseases up on an enemy with 20% armor mitigation*. SS will deal 2854 base damage, while Oblit deals 2860.5. Pretty much even, right? Wrong. Scourge Strike crits for 230%, while Oblit crits for 200%. Assuming a 25% crit rate, that brings us to 3781 expected damage for SS and 3575 for Oblit.
This is all self-buffed, and completely ignoring the considerable amount of damage diseases and Wandering Plague are dealing (they combine for ~30% of my DPS atm). In a raid situation, with extra stacking magic damage buffs and with the need to preserve diseases for the other DKs, Scourge Strike will still be king.
*My premade's average damage is 1233, for the record, so 2000 is pretty high.
I dont think SS gets that high. on the % of weaon damage, what talents are you adding? the only talent it gets oblit does not is black ice, so it shouldnt be much better. You have oblit getting a 30ish % bons but SS getting over 70%.
However, you are right its not that far off, although at 2k white damage oblit will be much higher than SS.
The point is though, it really should never reach SS at all as unholy.
I dont think SS gets that high. on the % of weaon damage, what talents are you adding? the only talent it gets oblit does not is black ice, so it shouldnt be much better.
Not true. Scourge Strike is affected by both Black Ice and Ebon Plague, and all % modifiers in the game are multiplicative. That's a 15% and a 13% modifier multiplied by 15% (presence), 10% (rage of rivendare), and 5% (desecration).
So, no, at 2k base white damage Oblit will NOT be higher than Scourge Strike.
Im assuming the model for Kill Command would work.
A:
IT/PS Frequency
....
B:
Crit Rate
....
C:
Cooldown
15
D:
Chance rdy @ CD
1-POWER(1-B,C*A)
E:
Ave attack to crit
1/B
F:
Time for those attacks from previous RS
C+E/A
G:
Ave time to use RS
D*C+(1-D)*F
H:
RS DPS
RSdamage/G
Thats how it was in Excel, im assuming itd be similar in OpenOffice
The only difference is OpenOffice uses ; instead of ,
The only issue I found was that with crit rates between 12-20%, DPS numbers were 5-30dps. This seems impressively low, especially with G values of over 2 minutes.
09/25/08, 12:12 AM
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