Necrosis hits for 1 if the targets HP is at 1. so on most dummies, it's only gonna hit for 1 or so... but on bosses or the Boss-like dummies it'll hit for the actual 10%.
I just sort of left necrosis out of my calculations since i had no way to really record it.
As for my testing, yea DW has the potential to be better than 2h but like you said, we wont be able to really see it until we are able to stack haste gear (which would benefit both DW and 2h if you think about it) or until i can get ahold of a fast offhand weapon. Oh and if they make nerves of steel hold a little more damage, they can remove the hit on there. +45% (15/30/45) offhand weapon damage would be a fantastic improvement as well.
Either way 30% to BCB isnt enough... and 5k out of 590k damage is hardly worth spending 3 points on imo. Better to put my points back into Dirge and 1 more into Virulence i suppose.
Also, i wish Black Ice was easier to get to... 5 barely "beneficial" talents in order to get to the yummy +30% shadow damage.
Just as a note, Sudden Doom and Bloody Vengeance play very very nicely together indeed.
Also, I'm becoming more and more convinced that "priority queue" vs "strict rotation" may be the way to go. Between Doom procs, dodge/parry/miss and the resultant rune cooldown, DC usage to not "waste" RP generation, etc, it's become harder and harder to maintain a strict 1-2-3 sequence at all times.
@Leaflock: I don't think Obliterating your diseases off that quickly is beneficial. You're getting about 2 ticks from each one, missing at least another 3, for ~150-200 each or more (I'm getting ~150-170 at 77, with quest crap and no Unholy past Epidemic.), which would, I think, more than make up the damage from an early Obliterate wiping them off.
It's not giving shadow damage anymore?? Is that a bug?? or intended?? or what? can anyone else confirm this?
That's rather disheartening if it's true... sigh, i guess that was the big ol' nerf i kept hearing about with Unholy but i didnt see it.
Also, i went back and fixed some percentages from my test i messed up on a bit. Should be bigger numbers for each percentage and it makes scourge strike look even sexier while two-handing lol.
Necrosis doesn't overkill, so if you're hitting dummies it'll always hit for 1, or is it doing it to mobs too?
Ah, good point. I hadn't checked that.
Also, as for the GCD point I made about Blood spec dps above-- maybe it's time to try out Unholy Presence? More white damage, more GCDs for dumping runic power. I'm at work this evening, but I'll mess around with this later.
Great, so i just tested Black Ice out and Thrawnseng is right... No more +30% shadow damage increase. Yay for a waste of 10 points...
Oh well, i can get Dark conviction now and increase wandering plague chance lol. and i dont have to mess around trying to get into the stupid frost tree anymore heh
Why gargolye in both specs? Aren't you spending all yoru RP on FS as Frost? Or has the garg DPS been boosted enough to use it over FS?
It scales well with AP, and frost strike loses quite a bit of damage from not using a two-hander. I might get 1/5 impurity instead, depending on how well gargoyle ends up dpsing.
Due to the change to Black Ice, Scourge Strike, and BCB i wanted to see the difference in Unholy/Frost and Unholy/Blood specs. This was done on the lvl 65 dummies because my DK is only 73 and i didnt want to have to worry about dodges/parries. I basically casted Bone Shield then went until it expired.
Great, so i just tested Black Ice out and Thrawnseng is right... No more +30% shadow damage increase. Yay for a waste of 10 points...
Next time, read the last two pages before posting. The change was mentioned quite a few times.
Also, try to limit use of "lol" it annoying.
For Unholy, you want 16/0/55 type builds for PvE dps.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
So I've been lurking this thread watching for spec examples in the latest builds, and I was wondering if there's an effective Blood PVE spec, or is it all frost and unholy? I'm rather fond of blood, but I'm not sure about the exact spec to use. Any thoughts??
Alright going to try and type this properly this time.
Right now I'm slowly gathering some tanking gear and gonna get some hand into heroics or at least normal 80's tanking. (If there's a horde blacksmith on Northrend that can make the set please!!!)
Now my issue has been what to call a tanking spec, or at least half tanky to hit up a heroic. For now I've been mostly blood so I'm trying for one around that.
After a bit of thinking I came up with this 51/13/7 build.
Its basically move butchery and the 31 point line into blade barrier, although you could sacrifice bladed armor for it as well, and keep hysteria/blood aura or get spell deflection. Frost is relativly unchaned from a dps build, and just use the first points in unholy for anticipation.
Now my problem was 1)How big is lichborne is it to get worth sacrificing a point in epidemic worth? 2)without full epidemic is annihlation still worth it?
From what I can tell any tanking build is going to have 18 points dedicated to Toughness, anticipation, blade barrier, and imp icy touch.
Now my problem was 1)How big is lichborne is it to get worth sacrificing a point in epidemic worth? 2)without full epidemic is annihlation still worth it?
Honestly, if this is a tank build you do not need DRW, since currently is doesn't do that much damage and sometimes it attacks from the front thus causing parries.
Lichborne is great and so is epidemic, so I would do a 50/14/7 if you are serious about deep Blood. I wouldn't want to play a DK without epidemic.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I haven't found that Epidemic is really necessary at all in raids, though I've been running with at least a couple DKs in my raids that help keep pestilence going. The damage output of Rune Strike and Howling Blast can be quite incredible at times (See Patchwerk parse for Rune Strike damage). The Blade Barrier change makes it a lot easier to keep near 100% uptime when I put an effort into it (98.4% on Patchwerk). I haven't had the chance to main tank all of 25 man Naxx, but feel like I should be able to given the chance. I maintanked Kel'Thuzad the other night but didn't have logging on for it. I'm not sure yet if I would be able to tank Sapphiron as Frost without Annihilation (Death strike spam?), but would like to try if we get a chance again.
Raid History Couple nights of fights that I had logging on for. One interesting fight to compare is Maexxna - I tanked that Saturday and a paladin tanked that Sunday.
Ferrante DK Gear List - I updated my gear list on the right here, currently running at about 35,000 hp raid buffed and 62.5-64.5% base avoidance. Currently, I believe I am running with too much expertise - I really started to feel the lower hit affect my spell hits when I switched from Titansteel Destroyer to The Jawbone, even though my melee damage went higher. I think I need to gem in some +hit or balance the expertise with hit gear.
Edit: I've been looking over the logs and I noticed that the RP gain from Blessing of Sanctuary (See Gluth/Patchwerk) makes up a majority of the total RP gain I receive in fights, I get some from Anti-Magic Shell, Replenish, Glyph of Icy Touch, and normal Rune consumption, but BoS overshadows these, really allowing me to pump out Rune Strikes and Frost Strikes. I wonder if Blizzard has focused on this particular synergy - are DK tanks going to require paladins with BoSanct specced to back them up? Patchwerk : Ferrante (Click Casts and Gains, look at Power Gains)
Honestly, if this is a tank build you do not need DRW, since currently is doesn't do that much damage and sometimes it attacks from the front thus causing parries.
Lichborne is great and so is epidemic, so I would do a 50/14/7 if you are serious about deep Blood. I wouldn't want to play a DK without epidemic.
That makes a good point. I usually grab the 51 pointer since its "suppose" to be some super talent. Its a great dump, and at 1 min or 2 min added pretty stupid damage. These talents probably should serve a dual purpose, so far UB only fits the bill. HC has that whole "break on damage" thing (or is it just a useless stun to apply frost fever which pestilence does much better at), and DRW is strictly a dps talent.
But yea epidemic is pretty essential come to think of it. Namely for multiple targets. And I was still in a psudo dps mindset.
Jax, I think you linked a DPS build there. Though now looking at it, I could try unholy for decent tanking/dps needs.
I can't figure out how to make a spec for 2H unholy that isn't overshadowed by DW unholy (Starting to doubt it could ever exist). Right now in raid gear and buffs BCB is just too good to pass up for both 2H and DW but in the hands of a DW'er its worth close to 7-8% of their dps (which makes dps in total higher than 2H'ers).
This makes me sad. Looks like DW has found its home right in the middle of my favorite spec.
Edit: As a side note/clarification, without BCB dps between DW and 2H should be relatively equal. With it DW skyrockets.
I can't figure out how to make a spec for 2H unholy that isn't overshadowed by DW unholy (Starting to doubt it could ever exist). Right now in raid gear and buffs BCB is just too good to pass up for both 2H and DW but in the hands of a DW'er its worth close to 7-8% of their dps (which makes dps in total higher than 2H'ers).
This makes me sad. Looks like DW has found its home right in the middle of my favorite spec.
Edit: As a side note/clarification, without BCB dps between DW and 2H should be relatively equal. With it DW skyrockets.
It's 7-8% of their dps because their yellow damage drops substantially. Scourge strike is normalized much lower with one handed weapons (like oblit). BCB and necrosis are pretty necessary for a DW build, but DW frost/unholy is stronger than just DW unholy right now (HB and IcyT are both weapon damage independent).
From the front page of mmo-champion. Not live yet, but it looks like its coming.
-Tundra Stalker buffs Obliterate and Howling Blast. Adds double expertise.
-Acclimation buffs Rune Strike (in addition to its normal effects).
-Crypt Fever down to 10/20/30%.
-And the big one... when you miss, your runes activate in 1 sec instead of 2. This makes misses, dodges and parries a lot less painful.
The crypt fever change is a further nerf to unholy, I really don't see much a reason to spec anything OTHER than frost. Kind of depressing, unholy was really the spec I liked the most.
Also, in my own tests on beta a 17/0/54 unholy spec ALWAYS beat any kind of DW sub-frost spec (even with the DW weapons having more than 75-77% of the DPS of the 2her, which seems to be the going conversion by item level)... not sure where you guys are getting the idea that Unholy is better with DW but I'd like more info.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Crypt fever change also affects other dks in a raid group but it hurts unholy most and that was their intention.
Further does crypt fever reduce the usefullness of wandering plague since its just 100% disease damage.
Not sure if that change is needed though, the latest changes were good enough to tune down unholy.
From the front page of mmo-champion. Not live yet, but it looks like its coming.
The crypt fever change is a further nerf to unholy, I really don't see much a reason to spec anything OTHER than frost. Kind of depressing, unholy was really the spec I liked the most.
Also, in my own tests on beta a 17/0/54 unholy spec ALWAYS beat any kind of DW sub-frost spec (even with the DW weapons having more than 75-77% of the DPS of the 2her, which seems to be the going conversion by item level)... not sure where you guys are getting the idea that Unholy is better with DW but I'd like more info.
That's just him. I think Frost with unholy sub is better.
And the 75%-77% isn't the important part, it's that the weapons are normalized to a faster speed, resulting in lower scaling on all the 'strike' abilities.
From the front page of mmo-champion. Not live yet, but it looks like its coming.
The crypt fever change is a further nerf to unholy, I really don't see much a reason to spec anything OTHER than frost. Kind of depressing, unholy was really the spec I liked the most.
Also, in my own tests on beta a 17/0/54 unholy spec ALWAYS beat any kind of DW sub-frost spec (even with the DW weapons having more than 75-77% of the DPS of the 2her, which seems to be the going conversion by item level)... not sure where you guys are getting the idea that Unholy is better with DW but I'd like more info.
Now now, they're just doing normalizations right now.
As for the DW thing. yea its all about percentages. You don't MS with a 1h, and pretty much all of DK's moves are percentage wise just the same. And main hand only.
This just kind of angers me, be nice if blizzard gave a better "big picture" knowledge transfer. With these changes, there is no reason to spec heavily in a tree other than frost for PvP, DPS, or Tanking. I'm hoping that blood/unholy are going to get something to set them back in line with frost so they are at least competitive.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Now now, they're just doing normalizations right now.
As for the DW thing. yea its all about percentages. You don't MS with a 1h, and pretty much all of DK's moves are percentage wise just the same. And main hand only.
He's talking about the base damage of the weapon though, and it sounds like you are too. The fact that a one-hander has lower base damage is pretty much unimportant - the big issue is that one handed swords are normalized at a particular speed (somewhere around 2.2, I forget), and two-handers are normalized at a longer time period. That means that an Obliterate with a twohander gets more benefit from ap than does an oblit with a one-hander.
(If you're not following me, it's also why the actual speed of the weapon doesn't matter. Combat rogues use swords instead of daggers because daggers are for some reason normalized at a faster speed than other 1h weapons are.)
I just realised something amiss in Sunstealer's test results with DW and 2H unholy builds. In 5-min tests, BCB procced only 8 times for 2H, and 13 times for DW. That's abnormally low.
I don't know exactly which weapons he used for the tests, but it is safe to assume that the 2H axe has about 3.4s swing time, and the 1H axe 2.5s.
Expected no. of BCB procs for 2H = 300s/3.4s x 30% = 26.5
Expected no. of BCB procs for DW = 2 x 300/2.5s x 30% = 72
Either Recount, or BCB didn't work properly.
Even if Blizz had forgotten to increase the proc rate of BCB from 15% to 30%, the discrepancy between the expected and the actual numbers of procs was still huge.
10/05/08, 6:28 PM
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