Vontre's Deathgraf - DK theorycraft tool (beta) - Page 2

◊ Vontre · 11/02/08, 9:43 PM

I need you to link your results in order to analyze the problem, thank you. =)

Auluras · 11/04/08, 2:10 PM

I'm not sure if this will help, But I took the T7 25 man DPS gear along with what I though were good additions to the other slots along with enchants and Gems and came up with the total + to stats

Str= 805
Agi= 187
Hit Rating= 416 (I have no idea what the hit cap is with 2 handers always played a Rogue)
Haste Rating= 408
Crit Rating= 742
Attack Power= 720 (this is assuming 20 stacks from Fury of the Five Flights)

Add in the base stats of a race at lvl 80, which I don't know

, and you would have a decent basis to enter in on the calculator.

Also I gemmed for Socket Bonus in everything and used. Bold Cardinal Ruby for Red, Sovereign Dreadstone for Blue, and Smooth King's Amber for Yellow. I'm sure this could be improved upon greatly but just giving it my best shot maybe something to work with and plan out for materials and so on as you level up.

anyone know what spec the base Blood Deathknight on this calc is....I can't seem to match it no matter what I put in, The closest I can come is the 50/0/21 using Unholy Presence

Aeryn · 11/04/08, 9:01 PM

There's something weird going on. When you add say, two more blood specs and compare those to only the default blood spec, you get results A for your custom specs, but when you tick another default spec, like unholy, and calculate again, you get results B.

Example Link - tick Unholy, calculate again and see different results for Blood 4.

Also, isn't pet damage included anymore? Otherwise, it's fun to play around with that tool. Beautiful graphs.

◊ Vontre · 11/05/08, 4:20 AM

The base spec is something along the lines of 53/18. I'll be updating the thing to actually display the base specs at some point.

Lycade · 11/18/08, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

The base spec is something along the lines of 53/18. I'll be updating the thing to actually display the base specs at some point.

I'll be looking forward to seeing the specs you are using.

Mine is a full 300 dps lower than yours... hrm.

Asherett · 11/24/08, 8:57 AM

No matter what data I enter I get the following error when trying to display Stat Analysis:

Warning: include_once(includes/stat_analyze.php) [function.include-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 923

Warning: include_once() [function.include]: Failed opening 'includes/stat_analyze.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear') in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 923

Fatal error: Class 'Stat_Analyzer' not found in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 925

Also, some more documentation on entering data would be welcome. What is the "Tooltip" box by attack power, with "Enter" button? Is the weapon min/max damage to be taken from the item or from the char sheet (ie with or without AP). Is the weapon speed to be taken from the item or char sheet (ie with or without haste)?

Otherwise, glorious as usual. Many thanks

◊ Vontre · 11/24/08, 6:45 PM

I am working on a somewhat comprehensive update now that wotlk it out and level 80 armory data is actually available.

The "tooltip" box was supposed to be a quick way to get your actual AP bonus from gear, but that doesn't work due to talents and such, don't use it. I'm getting rid of it if I haven't already.

Hraka · 11/25/08, 6:46 AM

One thing to look into with your update is the cast sequencing of Icy Touch and Plague Strike. Depending upon if the DK has specced for Rage of Rivendare in Unholy or Tundra Stalker in frost, should this not alter the order these two spells are cast in?

Looks like a great tool, definitely looking forward to seeing how it works when glyphs for the other specs are added in.

Miracleknight · 11/25/08, 10:46 AM

Depends, if you have the Icy Touch Glyph you lose damage on your Icy Touch, but if you're running into a boss you can throw out Icy Touch well before you're there, saving you a valuable GCD because by the time you get there he's got a disease on him and you're good to go.

Melchior · 11/25/08, 12:28 PM

What spec are you using as the base for Frost? When I look at the cast sequence, it shows this:

Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.39
Blood Strike - 4.32
Blood Strike - 5.82
Frost Strike - 7.32
Obliterate - 11.82
Icy Touch - 13.32
Plague Strike - 14.71
Blood Strike - 16.21
Blood Strike - 17.71
Frost Strike - 19.21
Frost Strike - 20.71

It repeats this indefinitely, so it is simply using the death runes from Blood of the North to re-cast Blood Strike instead of an extra Obliterate. It could just be that the 2 x BS are more damage than 1 x Obliterate, but I think it's pretty unlikely with this build.

Nefastilock · 11/25/08, 3:59 PM

I`m getting the following error :

Warning: include_once(includes/stat_analyze.php) [function.include-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 923

Warning: include_once() [function.include]: Failed opening 'includes/stat_analyze.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear') in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 923

Fatal error: Class 'Stat_Analyzer' not found in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/home.php on line 925

Link http://www.magegraf.com/deathknight/...fda30237140d24
Using FF on MacOSX

◊ Vontre · 11/26/08, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by Melchior

What spec are you using as the base for Frost? When I look at the cast sequence, it shows this:

Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.39
Blood Strike - 4.32
Blood Strike - 5.82
Frost Strike - 7.32
Obliterate - 11.82
Icy Touch - 13.32
Plague Strike - 14.71
Blood Strike - 16.21
Blood Strike - 17.71
Frost Strike - 19.21
Frost Strike - 20.71

It repeats this indefinitely, so it is simply using the death runes from Blood of the North to re-cast Blood Strike instead of an extra Obliterate. It could just be that the 2 x BS are more damage than 1 x Obliterate, but I think it's pretty unlikely with this build.

2x Blood Strike is more damage than one Obliterate.

◊ Vontre · 11/26/08, 4:28 PM

Regarding Icy Touch and Plague Strike, in actual play I always use Icy Touch first because of its 20 yards range. IT is up and my global cooldown reset all before I even reach melee range with the target. I'm not sure if switching up the order later on is worthwhile, but I will look into this if I have spare time (which is unlikely given all the shit I still have to do here =p).

Karede · 11/26/08, 4:51 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Regarding Icy Touch and Plague Strike, in actual play I always use Icy Touch first because of its 20 yards range. IT is up and my global cooldown reset all before I even reach melee range with the target. I'm not sure if switching up the order later on is worthwhile, but I will look into this if I have spare time (which is unlikely given all the shit I still have to do here =p).

The reason that it can be considered better to have Plague Strike up before Icy Touch is Rage of Rivendare. Fully talented that will give a 10% damage increase not only your IT but the Frost Fever as well. I haven't looked at the numbers to see how much of a DPS increase this is, but I would wager that it's not insignificant.

• Lanky · 11/28/08, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Karede

The reason that it can be considered better to have Plague Strike up before Icy Touch is Rage of Rivendare. Fully talented that will give a 10% damage increase not only your IT but the Frost Fever as well. I haven't looked at the numbers to see how much of a DPS increase this is, but I would wager that it's not insignificant.

I'd wager it is insignificant enough to not compare to the additional GCD I just earned by casting it from 20 yards out. Frost Fever will check to see if Blood Plague is up every tick, the simple way to test this is to go to the dummy, cast Icy Touch, wait an even number of seconds (4 or 8 are good) and then cast Plague Strike. Now stand back and watch your Frost Fever disease ticks. They should vary based on the debuffs on the mob. Compare the first frost fever tick to the one that occurs with Blood Plague up.

Simply put, waiting to get to the mob before casting IT actually harms you twice, you lose effectively two GCDs worth or real DPS because you need to cast both Plague Strike and Icy Touch in melee, and the benefit you gained is literally one tick of a disease.

darklink · 11/28/08, 12:37 PM

I dont see 1h weapon on your weapon list for DK and chest selection dont seem to work for me.

Also i enter my own spec wich is a DWing frost spec (0/53/18) and it give me errors.

Hraka · 11/28/08, 6:22 PM

Regarding the Frost base spec (still trying to figure out how that differs from the frost spec I put in under frost raid, frost/unholy in link is just something weird someone mentioned in Frostdps thread), theres some major concerns I'm seeing in its cast sequence, its constantly letting the diseases tick all the way off in order to get the final disease tick but numbers we've run in the Frost dps thread show that you're losing out on dps every time you let those diseases tick their final tick instead of recasting IT as soon as its up, even glyphed. Because of this forced stopcasting the simulator constantly has dead zones in its casting where absolutely nothing is going on for 1-5 seconds when it could instead be casting a strike. So each time we're pushing these back we're further pushing back the rune cooldowns.

Is there a way to force 10 second rotations into your calculator? Also currently theres some interest in the Frost thread about a rotation that doesnt involve PS at all...
The rotation I've been looking at is:
IT, BS, OB, OB, RPDump repeat. this ends up being slightly more dps than having the PS in there if you have the OB glyph, just havent got around to figuring out what the best sequence would be for the first go around seeing as how the above sequence requires 1 death rune to work.

Edit: link I actually referred to would be a good idea to add to post:
http://www.magegraf.com/deathknight/...6786e82ea27ce0

tzenes · 11/28/08, 10:01 PM

So I spent some time going through this (with emphasis on spell detail) and I had a number of questions (in no particular order):

You have 2 data entries for PS and IT, which I assume are for dots, but why Blood Strike?
Why does Howling Blast have a base damage of 400 not 270 (or some number relating to 259 and 281)?
Where is the Multiplier for HB hitting a target with IT on it?
Why is the Rune Strike Cast time Weapon Speed instead of Weapon Speed/2 (assuming poisson arrival time)?
What is the 250 number on Frost Strike? (did you mean for this to be the 150 in bonus? if so why is it added before the 60% weapon multiplier)?
Likewise what is the "static bonus damage" on Blood Strike?
Why is 2h weapon spec applied to total damage instead of only weapon damage on abilities like Frost Strike?

I imagine many of these are merely clarity issues.

◊ Vontre · 11/29/08, 5:43 PM

I have 2 handed weapon spec increasing total damage of any weapon swing by 4%. I just assumed that's how it works.

The bonus damages are set up the way the internal game code uses them, as such they won't match the tooltip information. Vulajin came up with this scheme to fit some... odd rogue thing, I forget, but it works out the same.

The entires for Blood Strike are with and without diseases.

Howling Blast assumes IT is up, so its base and coefficient are doubled already.

Why would rune strike not have weapon speed as cast time?

Static bonus damage on Blood Strike is from Sigil of the Dark Rider.

◊ Vontre · 11/29/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hraka

Regarding the Frost base spec (still trying to figure out how that differs from the frost spec I put in under frost raid, frost/unholy in link is just something weird someone mentioned in Frostdps thread), theres some major concerns I'm seeing in its cast sequence, its constantly letting the diseases tick all the way off in order to get the final disease tick but numbers we've run in the Frost dps thread show that you're losing out on dps every time you let those diseases tick their final tick instead of recasting IT as soon as its up, even glyphed. Because of this forced stopcasting the simulator constantly has dead zones in its casting where absolutely nothing is going on for 1-5 seconds when it could instead be casting a strike. So each time we're pushing these back we're further pushing back the rune cooldowns.

Is there a way to force 10 second rotations into your calculator? Also currently theres some interest in the Frost thread about a rotation that doesnt involve PS at all...
The rotation I've been looking at is:
IT, BS, OB, OB, RPDump repeat. this ends up being slightly more dps than having the PS in there if you have the OB glyph, just havent got around to figuring out what the best sequence would be for the first go around seeing as how the above sequence requires 1 death rune to work.

Edit: link I actually referred to would be a good idea to add to post:
http://www.magegraf.com/deathknight/...6786e82ea27ce0

This is an interesting idea, I'll take a look at it.

◊ Vontre · 11/29/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by darklink

I dont see 1h weapon on your weapon list for DK and chest selection dont seem to work for me.

Also i enter my own spec wich is a DWing frost spec (0/53/18) and it give me errors.

Dual wield isn't support yet.

tzenes · 12/01/08, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Why would rune strike not have weapon speed as cast time?

Poisson arrival time based on dodge/parry percentage

Every strike does not trigger a rune strike, thus the time between rune strikes should be based upon the probability of a strike occurring.

I used the example of 1 in 2, but a real world example should be much rarer.

Question: You mentioned 2xBS > Oblit. Is 2xIT > 2xBS once you factor in Rime?

PaulchenP · 12/01/08, 5:14 PM

Where is the option to calculate the AEP for my dk? Would be nice, if you could implement it.

Btw, one question, how is the following cast sequence possible? (look at the times).


			
Heart Strike - 22.87

Heart Strike - 24.37

Heart Strike - 25.87

Heart Strike - 27.37

Heart Strike - 28.87

EwokChilli · 12/01/08, 5:33 PM

If someone double OB or DS and had 2 blood runes and 4 death runes during the next rotation. Would be pretty challenging to have any of those affected by diseases unless you OB, OB, Blood Tap, IT, HS? Or some other wierd variation.

Pyros · 12/01/08, 5:44 PM

OB for 2 deathrunes on one rotation, then simply IT/PS/HSx4(usual rotation) and bloodtap another HS in. Nothing weird about it at all, but can only be done every minute. Should be done every minute though.