Vontre's Deathgraf - DK theorycraft tool (beta) - Page 3

EwokChilli · 12/01/08, 5:47 PM

I thought that Blood Tap could only turn Blood Runes into Death Runes. So those would still be on CD from just being used x4. Now, Empower Runic Weapon would get it done.

◊ Vontre · 12/03/08, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by tzenes

Poisson arrival time based on dodge/parry percentage

Every strike does not trigger a rune strike, thus the time between rune strikes should be based upon the probability of a strike occurring.

Rune Strike is an on next attack ability.

Grondarg · 12/03/08, 10:37 AM

On next attack after your dodged or parried. So in a raid environement your not likely to use Rune Strike at all unless your tanking.

I noticed that rotations dont adjust to talents available. For example using my current spec Wow Talent Calc 51/20/0 the rotation generated is this rotation:

Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.5
Heart Strike - 3
Heart Strike - 4.5
Obliterate - 6
<---------------------Frost Fever Expires - 10
<---------------------Blood Plague Expires - 11.5
Obliterate - 11.84
Heart Strike - 13.34
Death Coil - 15.34
Icy Touch - 16.8
Plague Strike - 18.3

So because I dont have Epidemic a rotation should actually look like this:

Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.5
Heart Strike - 3
Heart Strike - 4.5
Obliterate - 6
Death Coil - 7.5
Icy Touch - 10
Plague Strike - 11.5

Also I've tested 53/18/0 and 53/0/18 and cannot match the dps output listed as the default blood spec. The closest i could come was 51/20/0 but then noting the issue above with roations the DPS is probably off on 51/20/0 as the 2nd OB and the 3rd HS dont get the bonus of diseases.

◊ Embar · 12/03/08, 5:55 PM

Found the following which I believe is a castsequence error. Using the 51/13/7 blood spec, Deathgraf (http://www.magegraf.com/deathgraf/in...6e57aa7ec287d6) shows:

0-17.52: Normal sequence of IT->PS->HSx2->OBx2->HSx4 (ending with BBUUFF runes up)
The sequence that follows it is puzzling.

Icy Touch - 19.02
Plague Strike - 20.52
Death Coil - 22.02
Heart Strike - 23.44
Heart Strike - 24.94
Death Coil - 26.44
Heart Strike - 27.87
Heart Strike - 29.37
Heart Strike - 30.87
Death Coil - 32.37
Heart Strike - 33.79
Obliterate - 35.29
Obliterate - 36.79

Simply put, there should be no possible way for HS to be usable again at 27.87, since the only 2 runes up should be UF, unless empower rune weapon was used - but even then that wouldn't account for the 3rd HS at 30.87.

Additionally, the code appears to be reducing the GCD of Death Coil with haste, but I'm not seeing haste have a similar effect in-game.

Enyalius · 12/03/08, 10:16 PM

For the blood spec with unholy presence typically for every IT, PS, oblit, HS, HS at the end you have time to throw 1 maybe maybe 2 death coils depending on your latency and such. I have found typically I yield higher dps with unholy presence than as blood presence bc I am able to throw around double the DC's even without the proc for a free one, including the procs it lets you get off a lot more deathcoils. Am I the only person noticing this?

Malan · 12/03/08, 10:20 PM

Vontre I was checking out your sim and just randomly entered a few things and hit the graph button, just too see what would happen, and it broke. Probably because I didn't fill in a bunch of stuff, but figured you might want to know.

Warning: Division by zero in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/cast.php on line 550
http://www.magegraf.com/deathgraf/in...f244e21fc19b51

tzenes · 12/03/08, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Rune Strike is an on next attack ability.

Ok, let me try again from a new example:

Rune Strike procs on dodge or parry.

Let's assume I have a 2 speed weapon.
Over 20 seconds I make 10 attacks.
Let's say 5% of which are dodged.

Every 20 seconds I get .5 Runic Strikes. Thus the average time between Runic Strikes is 40 seconds.

Now, add in 6 HS, 1 PS and an Oblit.

Now we have 18 attacks every 20 seconds for an average of .9 runic strikes. Thus the average time between Runic Strikes is 22.2~ seconds.

◊ Embar · 12/03/08, 11:23 PM

Rune strike procs when YOU dodge or parry attacks on you, not when your attacks are dodged or parried.

[edit] Therefore if you aren't being attacked at all, you'll net 0 RS procs which is what normally happens in a raid DPS situation. The number isn't affected at all by the other attacks you perform.

◊ Vontre · 12/04/08, 3:45 AM

Originally Posted by Grondarg

On next attack after your dodged or parried. So in a raid environement your not likely to use Rune Strike at all unless your tanking.

I noticed that rotations dont adjust to talents available. For example using my current spec Wow Talent Calc 51/20/0 the rotation generated is this rotation:

Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.5
Heart Strike - 3
Heart Strike - 4.5
Obliterate - 6
<---------------------Frost Fever Expires - 10
<---------------------Blood Plague Expires - 11.5
Obliterate - 11.84
Heart Strike - 13.34
Death Coil - 15.34
Icy Touch - 16.8
Plague Strike - 18.3

Diseases last 12 seconds, not 10.

◊ Vontre · 12/04/08, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Vontre I was checking out your sim and just randomly entered a few things and hit the graph button, just too see what would happen, and it broke. Probably because I didn't fill in a bunch of stuff, but figured you might want to know.

Warning: Division by zero in /var/www/public_html/magegraf.com/public/includes/cast.php on line 550
http://www.magegraf.com/deathgraf/in...f244e21fc19b51

It's because you don't have a weapon selected, so it can't really do anything with melee attacks.

◊ Vontre · 12/04/08, 3:52 AM

Originally Posted by tzenes

Ok, let me try again from a new example:

Rune Strike procs on dodge or parry.

Let's assume I have a 2 speed weapon.
Over 20 seconds I make 10 attacks.
Let's say 5% of which are dodged.

Every 20 seconds I get .5 Runic Strikes. Thus the average time between Runic Strikes is 40 seconds.

Now, add in 6 HS, 1 PS and an Oblit.

Now we have 18 attacks every 20 seconds for an average of .9 runic strikes. Thus the average time between Runic Strikes is 22.2~ seconds.

Rune Strike is not actually used in the simulation. The spell detail page is showing you the abilities actual cast time, which is your swing speed. It's not a particularly useful number, but that's what it is.

Ten · 12/04/08, 4:16 AM

Dunno if you noticed this already, but all the expertise talents appear to be calculated as giving expertise rating instead of actual expertise. I could be misreading it though.

Grondarg · 12/04/08, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Vontre

Diseases last 12 seconds, not 10.

Sorry. I'm not sure why i was thinking it was 10 sec. Still the last HS there isnt getting the benefit of both diseases.

Saliik · 12/05/08, 4:02 PM

I've noticed some strange behavior with the manual entry of expertise rating. Here's the setup I'm using, I imported my character then copied the values over to the manual entry so I could play with the stats.

http://www.magegraf.com/deathgraf/in...6a00bdd6c3e3a8

When I run this, I get 1699 DPS. Adding 9 expertise rating should give me 1 expertise, or 0.25% more attacks landed. Since unholy has a lot of spell damage, this should be somewhat less than 0.25% increased damage, or somewhere between 1699 and 1703 DPS, however my DPS jumps up to 1730, almost a 2% increase in damage.

Bump it up to 11 expertise, and the DPS goes down to 1729. I played around with the expertise value a bit and here's what I found. It seems anything over 15 yields 1720 DPS, below 15, I got:

0 - 1699
1 - 1707
2 - 1721
3 - 1721
4 - 1719
5 - 1721
6 - 1731
7 - 1733
8 - 1727
9 - 1730
10 - 1750
11 - 1729
12 - 1728
13 - 1729
14 - 1730
15+ - 1720

First thing that strikes me is that the calculation must be getting very confused somewhere, as the resulting DPS from exp is very erratic. Is it maybe that with differing chances for certain moves to land alters the sequence and causes it to find a better sequence? If that's the case, perhaps try getting the sequence it's using for 10 exp, and forcing it to use that with 0 exp, and see if it's higher.

Aside from that, however, I noticed that the numbers stop changing at 15, so I'm guessing that this is using Expertise, not rating. 15 entered + 5 from RoR = 20 Expertise = -5% dodge. You mentioned that it is calculating against a lvl 80, which means 15 expertise (123 rating) should be the cap. So whatever it is doing to get such odd DPS changes, it's capping at 15 expertise rating, rather than 123.

Edit: Hit seems kinda strange too: with 119 hit, I do 1697 DPS, drop down to 118 hit and I gain 22 DPS up to 1719.

◊ Vontre · 12/05/08, 8:12 PM

The expertise is probably confused somewhere on the different between rating and not, yeah. As for the cycle differences, I'll have to study that. Not sure what's going on there.

Gort · 12/06/08, 3:53 PM

There's something... Funky going on with Unholy/ghoul builds.

http://magegraf.com/deathknight/inde...5d7b0492e23ab9 shows me at ~900 DPS, no pet contribution, using a spec that very definitely is Ghoul-enabled. (No gargoyle, but I didn't say it was a GOOD build.) This is significantly lower (600DPS) than a Blood spec, same gear, which I would to some degree expect, but not THAT much. As a sanity check, I fired up Rawr, and unless my Mono install (On a Mac) is horking the Rawr.math significantly in the background, it has me around 1500 DPS, which seems more ballpark correct for the me/ghoul combination.

I suspect it's close on my personal DPS--it's a build with a bunch of tanking talents, and a bunch of Ghoul support talents--but is for some reason ignoring my little rotting buddy. Debug output doesn't mention him either that I saw. Is he not supported?

Melchior · 12/06/08, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gort

There's something... Funky going on with Unholy/ghoul builds.

http://magegraf.com/deathknight/inde...5d7b0492e23ab9 shows me at ~900 DPS, no pet contribution, using a spec that very definitely is Ghoul-enabled. (No gargoyle, but I didn't say it was a GOOD build.) This is significantly lower (600DPS) than a Blood spec, same gear, which I would to some degree expect, but not THAT much. As a sanity check, I fired up Rawr, and unless my Mono install (On a Mac) is horking the Rawr.math significantly in the background, it has me around 1500 DPS, which seems more ballpark correct for the me/ghoul combination.

I suspect it's close on my personal DPS--it's a build with a bunch of tanking talents, and a bunch of Ghoul support talents--but is for some reason ignoring my little rotting buddy. Debug output doesn't mention him either that I saw. Is he not supported?

Under "Encounter Data", click the "Use Pets" box. Otherwise it excludes them.

Grondarg · 12/08/08, 4:05 AM

Here's some more potential issues with rotations.

Current testing Spec: Blood DPS - MMo Champ Calc

The rotation generated by this spec on your page looks like this:
Icy Touch - 0
Plague Strike - 1.5
Heart Strike - 3
Heart Strike - 4.5
Death Strike - 6
Death Strike - 11.63
Heart Strike - 13.13
Heart Strike - 14.63
Heart Strike - 16.13
Heart Strike - 17.63
Icy Touch - 19.13
Plague Strike - 20.63
Heart Strike - 22.13
Heart Strike - 23.63
Heart Strike - 25.13
Heart Strike - 26.63
Heart Strike - 28.13
Heart Strike - 29.63
Heart Strike - 31.13
Heart Strike - 32.63
Death Strike - 34.13
Death Strike - 35.63
Death Coil - 37.13
Death Coil - 38.55
Death Coil - 42.73
Icy Touch - 44.15
Plague Strike - 45.65
Heart Strike - 47.15
Heart Strike - 48.65
Heart Strike - 50.15
Heart Strike - 51.65
Heart Strike - 53.15
Heart Strike - 54.65
Heart Strike - 56.15
Death Strike - 57.65
Death Strike - 59.15
Death Coil - 60.65
Death Coil - 62.06
Death Coil - 66.2

As you can see there are 2 spots where there are 7+ HS in a row. While this is technically possible if you start the rotation with 2 Blood and 4 Death runes but none of the runes would gain any benefit from Diseases. You won't actually have that many death runes because at 19.13 and 20.63 you reset 2 death runes to thier normal state when you cast icy touch and plague strike. The same occurs at 44.15 and 45.65. The rotation should look something like this:

Icy Touch -
Plague Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Death Strike -
Death Coil -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Death Coil
Icy Touch -
Plague Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Death Strike -
Death Coil -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Heart Strike -
Death Coil

◊ Vontre · 12/08/08, 8:28 PM

Yeah, there is clearly something wrong with the blood rotation. I'm giving the code another once-over and will update before too long.

◊ Vontre · 12/08/08, 9:15 PM

Posted another big update. I fixed more than a few problem with rotations (

), problem with runic power, fixed sudden doom, etc. Thank you guys for beta testing this, death knight modeling is a huge pain.

I still need to fix expertise, and I have some changes to make regarding modeling miss/dodge, but I wanted to get these other rotation fixes posted asap.

Melchior · 12/08/08, 9:36 PM

Nice update. Blood rotation looks clean from what I can tell.

Couple things I noticed just now; the chest slot options seem to be gone, and the gains from Butchery are displaying in the cast sequence output as "fill_time" entries (though that may be intended).

Eleven · 12/09/08, 6:54 AM

I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong place, but you have an option for a tri-spec build, but no second weapon slot for an off hand weapon.

◊ Bryne · 12/09/08, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Eleven

I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong place, but you have an option for a tri-spec build, but no second weapon slot for an off hand weapon.

Originally Posted by Vontre

Dual wield isn't support yet.

What he said.

◊ Vontre · 12/09/08, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Melchior

Nice update. Blood rotation looks clean from what I can tell.

Couple things I noticed just now; the chest slot options seem to be gone, and the gains from Butchery are displaying in the cast sequence output as "fill_time" entries (though that may be intended).

This is actually intended, not for butchery but in general, so it's easier to see gaps in the rotation. I can disable it if it annoys people. =)

Melchior · 12/09/08, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Vontre

This is actually intended, not for butchery but in general, so it's easier to see gaps in the rotation. I can disable it if it annoys people. =)

I kinda like it myself.

For the Blood rotation when using blood presence, I'm finding that 2 x Oblit 2 x HS does more damage on alternate rune cooldown sets because of the extra GCD for Death Coil usage. This may require both the glyph and the sigil, but I'm pretty sure only the glyph would be enough to put it higher. It doesn't look like that glyph is supported yet, though.