DPS Compendium - Page 12

Eetabeetay · 11/10/08, 3:33 PM

A while back, I saw something in the old thread that said that you dps as blood spec in unholy presence, and that you dps as unholy spec in blood presence. Does this still hold true, because if I understood correctly this compendium says everyone dpses in blood presence.

• Zurm · 11/10/08, 3:37 PM

Originally Posted by Eetabeetay

A while back, I saw something in the old thread that said that you dps as blood spec in unholy presence, and that you dps as unholy spec in blood presence. Does this still hold true, because if I understood correctly this compendium says everyone dpses in blood presence.

The answer isn't a yes or no. Ideally, you have a good connection and computer. In this case, you should be able to pull off the rotation for Blood spec in Blood Presence, getting a 15% damage boost (which is significant). If this is not the case, or you are PvPing, then you want the extra breathing room of 1 second GCDs to pull off your rotation. In other words, you should be able to pull of the rotation with Blood Presence, but if you have a bad computer/connection/reaction time, sticking with unholy presence MIGHT improve your DPS. As a general rule, you do want to use blood presence for PvE DPS.

This is because Blood spec's rotation is typically tighter and involving more GCDs in the same time frame as other rotations (unholy being the most forgiving).

Kyrre · 11/10/08, 4:34 PM

I'd like to point out something concerning the Icy Touch glyph, Butchery and Arcane Torrent which may have been missed.

A regular IT/PS/BS/BS/OB FS -> IT/PS/OB/OB FS rotation pumps out enough runic power for 3.25 frost strikes per 20 seconds.
If you add butchery, Glyph of Icy Touch and use Arcane torrent at the beginning of a fight - your runic power per 10 seconds increases from 65 to 79+Arcane torrent - thus increasing the amount of frost strikes per 20 seconds to 4. (IT/PS/BS/BS/OB/FS/FS, IT/PS/OB/OB/FS/FS. In theory this should equate to a 10% loss of icy touch dps but a ~23% increase in frost strike dps. The increase in global cooldowns to 10.5 should not matter thanks to the 2 second 'buffer' window for rune regen.

Something to think about for an all out dps rotation.

Najani · 11/10/08, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by bathoz

During the (brief) discussion about efficient ability priorities when dealing with different sized AoE situations, one of the posters mentioned working in ERW to squeeze out more BBs.

Is there any school of thought on when would be the most efficient time to use ERW? Or do most people consider it a "oh crap" button for use when you totally mess up your rotation, or need to do something like emergency tank?

When I was considering this, is that it might be useful use fairly shortly after popping a gargoyle.

I was giving OOC RP gen some thought yesterday and realized that with the right combination, its possible to hit 60 without the use of consumables. Assuming you're a blood elf (Arcane Torrent, +15 RP), you have the minor Glyph of Raise Dead (+20 RP on summon), and ERW (+25 RP), all three can be popped on the pull for an immediate UB or the much hated on HC. Both would provide a rather nice boost to initial AOE threat generation. While HC is situational, running into a pack and popping HC followed with a Deathchilled HB would pretty much eliminate the possibility of an early pull by the raid AOE. The PVP usage of such a technique sound rather promising as well.

Perhaps there is a replacement for Arcane Torrent that I'm missing which would open the ability up to all races.

Any thoughts?

Edit: Also, I'd imagine corpse explosioning a ghoul on the pull might be a quick way to snag some initial aggro.

Dev93L · 11/10/08, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

The rogue class has been around for a LONG time... you're going to have to give us some time to come up with a model to make theorycrafting easy-mode. My Rawr module is technically complete (all the functionality is coded) but the math seems a bit off, I'm registering almost 6k AP in raids (granted, Rune of the Fallen Crusader has to count as a static 7.5% increase to strength) and almost 6k dps. I'll be double checking my math off tzenes/methods' spreadsheets, but any of us could be wrong.

The sheets, as of now, are more of a private tool the authors were kind enough to share with us. Once I get the Rawr module more accurate (which I dont expect to really happen until 2-3 weeks into WOTLK) we will hopefully have an accurate model available that offers built-in talent, gear, and stat comparison graphs.

If anyone has screenshots showing DPS breakdowns (I need the individual DPS per attack type or total dps and the percent that a given ability provided) and could provide me your spec and rotation with that screenshot (sent VIA PM, to avoid forum clutter), I should be able to narrow down some of the math issues and hopefully get it out with the main Rawr release for WOTLK.

Certainly, and I didn't mean to suggest anyone should rush, I was just curious what was the current state of what we were using to model with. Your post makes sense and I appreciate it.

Is there a link up for methods' sheet?

Lurker · 11/10/08, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Najani

I was giving OOC RP gen some thought yesterday and realized that with the right combination, its possible to hit 60 without the use of consumables. Assuming you're a blood elf (Arcane Torrent, +15 RP), you have the minor Glyph of Raise Dead (+20 RP on summon), and ERW (+25 RP), all three can be popped on the pull for an immediate UB or the much hated on HC. Both would provide a rather nice boost to initial AOE threat generation. While HC is situational, running into a pack and popping HC followed with a Deathchilled HB would pretty much eliminate the possibility of an early pull by the raid AOE. The PVP usage of such a technique sound rather promising as well.

Perhaps there is a replacement for Arcane Torrent that I'm missing which would open the ability up to all races.

Any thoughts?

Edit: Also, I'd imagine corpse explosioning a ghoul on the pull might be a quick way to snag some initial aggro.

Was Blood Tap still giving RP as the beta ended?

tzenes · 11/10/08, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by CumpsD

Is it normal I always get a message from Excel 2007 saying it has to recover data? All the version I tried so far had this problem. Any chance anyone else said this as well? Happening on multiple computers for me

I've only been trying on Excel 2003, so its possible there is a bug I'm unaware of.
I'll try to fix this and get back to you.

Also, after the error can you still use the sheet per normal?

Najani · 11/10/08, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lurker

Was Blood Tap still giving RP as the beta ended?

Not that I'm aware of. The tooltip only mentions the blood rune conversion and activation, although knowing Bliz that doesn't mean much. I don't remember noticing an RP gain while using it before beta went down, but I wasn't really looking for it either.

I'd be inclined to say 'probably not, but maybe'.

EDIT: Wowhead and Thott list the third effect as Energize (100 RP). Now I'm wondering how old/new those listings are.

Lurker · 11/10/08, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Najani

Not that I'm aware of. The tooltip only mentions the blood rune conversion and activation, although knowing Bliz that doesn't mean much. I don't remember noticing an RP gain while using it before beta went down, but I wasn't really looking for it either.

I'd be inclined to say 'probably not, but maybe'.

EDIT: Wowhead and Thott list the third effect as Energize (100 RP). Now I'm wondering how old/new those listings are.

I'm probably mistaken. I just remember using some abilities to use Horn out of combat and thought BT was one of them.

Clandestine · 11/10/08, 6:09 PM

No, you're correct, Blood Tap was giving 10 RP. I guess it's possible that it was removed towards the end, but it was still in as of just before 3.0 went live. Didn't do much testing after that because there wasn't anyone around on the beta realms afterwards for the most part.

Flamingcloud · 11/10/08, 8:50 PM

Death & Decay, Blood Tap, Rune Tap, Unbreakable Armor, Bone Armor, and Vampiric Blood were all at the very least generating rp OOC in beta. If you had 3/3 Morbidity it was fairly easy to keep your self at 100 rp out of combat.

c0nscript · 11/11/08, 12:05 AM

6.1.7. Haste Rating

Haste Rating will directly increase the contribution of white swings to your DPS - 1% Haste will generate 1% more auto attack DPS.

Unlike many other melee based classes, Death Knights draw a much smaller portion of their dps from White damage. As a result, Haste is a much less desirable stat. As you can also see, the value of Haste is effected by the spec. Abilities like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade allow for Unholy specs to gain much better damage per Haste Rating. Additionally, Killing machine works similarly.

While Haste is never a particularly desirable stat for Death Knights, we must remember how it effects their GCD. Because of dense rotations additional haste rating can reduce the strain on a player and allow for a larger margin of error. However, stacking too much of it is also not recommended, due to its low value.

We require 32.79 Rating for 1% Haste.

My questions are:

Why does the T7 Death Knight DPS set have haste on nearly all pieces?

Why does the DPS set not give a boost to Blood Strike?

And my final question is, what is the difference between Blood Strike and Heart Strike? Just the weapon damage?

Sorry for these questions but I've been trying to study Death Knight for quite sometime since the beta came out I've read almost every post I could find on them. I plan on changing my main from a Fury Warrior to a DPS Death Knight in the expansion for the guild. We are currently a BT guild just to give my experience.

It just seems everything I have been reading from this guide clashes with the actual Death Knight set pieces. Don't get me wrong this guide is amazing and has helped answered A LOT of my questions but some remain unanswered and has brought up some confusion.

I was really pushing towards ( 50 / 0 / 21 )
but now I'm not so sure and I am thinking about leaning towards Unholy because of the set bonuses.

tzenes · 11/11/08, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by c0nscript

My questions are:

Why does the T7 Death Knight DPS set have haste on nearly all pieces?

Why does the DPS set not give a boost to Blood Strike?

And my final question is, what is the difference between Blood Strike and Heart Strike? Just the weapon damage?

Sorry for these questions but I've been trying to study Death Knight for quite sometime since the beta came out I've read almost every post I could find on them. I plan on changing my main from a Fury Warrior to a DPS Death Knight in the expansion for the guild. We are currently a BT guild just to give my experience.

It just seems everything I have been reading from this guide clashes with the actual Death Knight set pieces. Don't get me wrong this guide is amazing and has helped answered A LOT of my questions but some remain unanswered and has brought up some confusion.

I was really pushing towards ( 50 / 0 / 21 )
but now I'm not so sure and I am thinking about leaning towards Unholy because of the set bonuses.

You really have two questions here.

In answer to the first question: Haste isn't useless, and obviously bliz wanted to add one more kind of stat to our T7 items. Plus the flexibility it gives us is always nice.

In answer to your second question: the t7 set bonus has a nice bonus to Obliterate which is a core ability in a Blood build. I think you'll find it to be a nice bonus, but not game breaking.

I recommend the 50/0/21 spec, because I believe it provides the best dps of any DK spec without having to micro manage a pet.

pldcanfly · 11/11/08, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by c0nscript

I was really pushing towards ( 50 / 0 / 21 )
but now I'm not so sure and I am thinking about leaning towards Unholy because of the set bonuses.

Epidemic is completely useless in a 50/0/21, since Obliterate will consume your diseases and you have to renew them every 10 seconds.

Clemz · 11/11/08, 4:07 AM

I'm of that mind too, it's not entirely useless, Leaflock pointed out a situation earlier in the thread that would make Epidemic worthwhile, but I wouldn't suggest points in it hoping that situation comes to light. As for haste, it's not so much they wanted to add one more stat, it's that haste is a secondary stat, from Blizzard's own words(paraphrasing obviously) they can only add so much of the primary stats due to item budget, for instance, an item with 100 strength would cost mroe than an item with 65 strength and 30 haste. The more of a stat there is, the more expensive it gets to add. I'm sure comeone could explain that better than I could, but that's the gist of it.

Edit: Found the quote I was referring to! Thread here. Was directed towards Hunters, but applies to everyone.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

We do put a lot of haste on gear. Part of that is because we don't have a huge canvas to work with. We can't put a ton of Strength and Spirit on hunter gear. Also, keep in mind that we aren't trying to make the best possible gear for you. We want you to toss out less optimal pieces for more optimal pieces. Finally, keep in mind that gear is one of the things we use to let players demonstrate mastery of the game. Making the decision of whether that new ring or belt is an upgrade should require a little bit of thought. That's what makes it interesting. But I will bring up the issue of haste and we can talk it over again.