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Old 11/12/08, 6:29 PM   #211
Flamingcloud
Great Tiger
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by Avenrus View Post
Excuse my lack of knowledge, I do not understand why crit rating has such a low value for death knights?
I understand that crit is a powerhouse for us compared to enhancement shamans for example, but for 1 crit rating to be almost equal to 1 AP is dramatically low.
Part of that is because of the low stats he used(like a rare weapon), but part is dots don't crit, and we don't have anything absurd like flurry+impale+deep wounds.

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Old 11/12/08, 6:41 PM   #212
Sylari
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Flamingcloud View Post
but part is dots don't crit
Is deep unholy inviable for DPS then?

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Old 11/12/08, 7:43 PM   #213
Lanlaorn
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Khadgar
Is deep unholy inviable for DPS then?
Deep Unholy DoTs do crit (Wandering Plague).

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Old 11/12/08, 7:51 PM   #214
Saltificus
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Bloodhoof
The most current build (3.0.3) on WoWhead is showing that Unholy Blight has no runic power cost associated with it anymore. Can anyone confirm or deny this, as I've been calculating UB as a runic power dump. Thanks in advance.





Edit: It seems Wowhead was incorrectly marked, currently in game Unholy blight costs 60 runic power. Disregard or delete.

Last edited by Saltificus : 11/13/08 at 12:21 PM.

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Old 11/12/08, 7:57 PM   #215
Darkrenown
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Lanlaorn View Post
Deep Unholy DoTs do crit (Wandering Plague).
I think that was his point. You can't answer "Why is crit so lowly valued?" with "Because DoTs don't crit" when Unholy's DoTs do crit.

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Old 11/12/08, 8:15 PM   #216
Sylari
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
I think that was his point. You can't answer "Why is crit so lowly valued?" with "Because DoTs don't crit" when Unholy's DoTs do crit.
Yeah, to clarify I was asking if his assertion that DoTs don't crit meant that Wandering Plague and therefore Deep unholy was a bad DPS build.

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Old 11/12/08, 8:24 PM   #217
Flamingcloud
Great Tiger
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Cho'gall
Well we don't have flurry+deepwounds+impale or anything absurd like that which helps with crit scaling.

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Old 11/13/08, 6:24 AM   #218
Hunglo
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zangarmarsh
Originally Posted by Humanwarlock View Post
Are these weightings for the 50/0/21 spec, the 51/13/7 spec, or are they valid for both?
That was for the 51/13/7 spec. I was using Methods numbers as I know if I was trying to do the weightings, I'd buck something up and throw it way off.

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Old 11/13/08, 9:51 AM   #219
methods
Piston Honda
 
methods's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by Flamingcloud View Post
Part of that is because of the low stats he used(like a rare weapon), but part is dots don't crit, and we don't have anything absurd like flurry+impale+deep wounds.
I used a 180 dps 2H weapon in my tests. I just tried it again and the numbers don't change too much even with a Betrayer (~220 dps). Hit until capped. STR is still amazing for all specs. Crit and Exp are around the same (before capped). ApR good for blood but less for unholy but still decent for frost.

Really busy at work so I haven't been able to do many error searches so there could still be major flaws I'm missing. The only known bug/mistake I have that I haven't fixed yet is the lack of glancing blows in my white damage calculation as well as not using a "One Roll" system instead of normal averages.

For now it looks like for (after cap):

Unholy: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>AP>Haste>ApR

Blood: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>ApR>AP>Haste

Frost: 1WDPS>>>STR>CRIT>AP>APR>Haste

If i can get the time I'll try to post some actual numbers.

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Old 11/13/08, 10:46 AM   #220
Darkrenown
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Stormrage (EU)
Has anyone checked if the Glyph of death strike is still bugged? It was reported on the beta forum a while back and I haven't seen any mention of it being fixed.

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Old 11/13/08, 3:31 PM   #221
Hunglo
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Zangarmarsh
Originally Posted by methods View Post
For now it looks like for (after cap):

Unholy: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>AP>Haste>ApR

Blood: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>ApR>AP>Haste

Frost: 1WDPS>>>STR>CRIT>AP>APR>Haste

If i can get the time I'll try to post some actual numbers.
Methods, where would AGI be for each spec. I'm under the assumption that AGI is at least better than the worst stat (ApR for unholy, Haste for the others). But would it fit between the next stat up?

I.E.,
Unholy: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>Haste>ApR

Blood: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>ApR>AGI>AP>Haste

Frost: 1WDPS>>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>APR>Haste

Or would it remain only better than the worst stat? Also, I'm looking for your latest spreadsheet and have been unable to find it. I would think such a great tool would be on the first page.

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Old 11/13/08, 4:10 PM   #222
methods
Piston Honda
 
methods's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Frostmane
Originally Posted by Hunglo View Post
Methods, where would AGI be for each spec. I'm under the assumption that AGI is at least better than the worst stat (ApR for unholy, Haste for the others). But would it fit between the next stat up?

I.E.,
Unholy: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>Haste>ApR

Blood: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>ApR>AGI>AP>Haste

Frost: 1WDPS>>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>APR>Haste

Or would it remain only better than the worst stat? Also, I'm looking for your latest spreadsheet and have been unable to find it. I would think such a great tool would be on the first page.
I haven't added agility into my calculations totally yet so I can't give a full answer on that. You are right that it will be quite low on the priorities.

My sheets haven't been posted yet aside from a few PMs to other 'tool makers' on these boards. The reason is they (my sheets) are a shameful mess and are not very user friendly yet. When I have a less busy schedule I'll get the kinks out and have a presentable sheet posted. Meanwhile Tzenes' sheet is slightly different but could give you very similar answers by manually changing variables and recording the difference. I think we're all still working with approximates anyway.

Last edited by methods : 11/13/08 at 4:26 PM.

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Old 11/13/08, 4:57 PM   #223
Nethris
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by Hunglo View Post
Methods, where would AGI be for each spec. I'm under the assumption that AGI is at least better than the worst stat (ApR for unholy, Haste for the others). But would it fit between the next stat up?

I.E.,
Unholy: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>Haste>ApR

Blood: 1WDPS>>STR>CRIT>ApR>AGI>AP>Haste

Frost: 1WDPS>>>STR>CRIT>AP>AGI>APR>Haste

Or would it remain only better than the worst stat? Also, I'm looking for your latest spreadsheet and have been unable to find it. I would think such a great tool would be on the first page.
Agi might beat both APR and Haste for Unholy and Frost, putting it above AP for blood seems unlikely to me - or it will be better than AP for frost as well, as it should affect frost strike but not death coil, and a "standard" frost rotation for theory crafting doesn't use howling blast to my knowledge. I assume those rankings were for one point of each? AP doesn't get the same scaling as STR of course, but would 2 AP beat 1 ApR for blood for example (as that's closer to the same item budget cost so more likely to be the approximate tradeoff we see)?

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Old 11/14/08, 9:50 AM   #224
Septus
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ravenholdt
Originally Posted by intropy
1. If blood plague is down, plague strike.
2. If frost fever is down, icy touch.
3. If unholy blight is down, unholy blight.
4. Sourge strike.
5. Blood strike.
6. If unholy blight is up, death coil.
7. Delay.
I pulled this from the other DK thread. For Unholy, shouldn't this dps priority system be modified to place Death Coil right below Scourge Strike, given enough rp(or should it be more than 40, so as to leave some extra for the new UB)? I thought runic power usage trumped everything but applying diseases.

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Old 11/14/08, 10:05 AM   #225
Nacht
Von Kaiser
 
Nacht's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
Has anyone checked if the Glyph of death strike is still bugged? It was reported on the beta forum a while back and I haven't seen any mention of it being fixed.
I checked yesterday in Ebon Hold, and Glyph of Death Strike does appear to be working with Rage of Rivendare.

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