DPS Compendium - Page 3

Nacht · 11/07/08, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Illundai

This link was posted in the other thread, they seem pretty accurate, so unless anyone sees any mistakes on there, I'll add it.

Most of the coefficients in that post are accurate. The one that is inaccurate is Gargoyle. The 0.42 listed is the base coefficient of 0.4 combined with the Orc pet racial of 5% pet damage. Non class specific Gargoyle scale is 0.4. For Orcs it would be 0.42.

tedv · 11/07/08, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Zurm

I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression that Bladed Armor is only affected by armor from gear/enchants/buffs (which can be modified by frost presence), hence why a talent like toughness does not affect it.

The tooltip just refers to armor. It should be easy to test though: Switch from Blood to Frost presence and see if your attack power increases.

Lanky · 11/07/08, 11:25 AM

Looks Good so Far, some comments on Specs listed,

Blood:
Currently, Bloodworms flat out suck. The 50/21 Spec has 2/3 points in it. I'd recommend a reassessment of that spec for Pure DPS figures, perhaps to something like this 50/21. Vampiric Blood in no way adds to directly to DPS, but it will save your life or help your healers far more than bloodworms on fights with lots of periodic damage or AoE attacks.

The 51/13/7 Spec is absolutely on the Money, and it should be noted that it will surpass the first spec in DPS output as gear scales, because it scales as a spec far better with gear.

Frost: I am really unsure about Killing Machine 5/5 in a Two Handed frost spec. it is a Critical strike, on auto-attack only talent. I'd almost say take Frost Aura, and Rune Tap +2/3 Imp Rune Tap, again for overall raid contributions and utility. Moreover, you can squeeze another point out of frost to fill out Rune Tap, and then glyph it to create an excellent instant-cast party heal. Frost Aura gives 80 resist to all schools at 80, and it stacks with Mark of the Wild. I wouldnt overlook those benefits, similar to those of Unholy Aura, for your raid.

Unholy: Is fine, It is by far the easiest to both model and spec into.

Leaflock · 11/07/08, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Pyros

Last time I played my DK, Toughness affected Bladed Armor. It wasn't always obvious at the first sight though, because of the internal cooldown refresh on bladed armor, so you'd fill toughness, see no increase, but if you waited 20secs or so it'd then refresh. However, rating agility over the gain from bladed armor is borderline useless. Agi>armor conversion is pretty damn low to begin with, and then armor > bladed armor is also low, so the gains per point would be absolutely negligible. Napkin math says: 2armor per agi, 5AP per 180armor, so ~0.05 AP per agi point.

I can confirm this-- Toughness affects Bladed Armor AP increases after a delay which varies, as does changing to Frost Presence. And, as argued in the previous thread, the AP gain from Toughness is too low to consider it a straight dps talent, despite Bladed Armor.

Also, as Lanky said above, the blood dps specs should not have Bloodworms. As I recall, we discussed several reasons they would actually be detrimental in raids. In particular, they messed up group healing spell mechanics. I would also suggest that Rune Tap is probably more useful than Vampiric Blood as dps-- with the reduction in potions and healthstones, having your own personal HS on a cooldown is a significant increase in survivability. You can't dps when you're dead.

On Unholy: I only see one rotation listed, but didn't we discuss that PS - IT - BS - BS - SS - PS - IT - SS - SS with the IT glyph was roughly equivalent, because of the runic power generated and potentially a little more Desecration uptime?

Andread · 11/07/08, 12:04 PM

Under Stats choices can AP be added - I assumed these are all compared to 1AP?

Torrential · 11/07/08, 12:12 PM

1 Request: Add in the numbers required (rating and conversion etc.) for expertise as is done with hit.

1 Comment: The DW tri-spec shouldn't ever use Obliterate.

Given the spec's dependence on non-strike damage (Howling Blast) I think the spec should look like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Given Chill of the Grave, Dirge, and the IT Glyph, and Blood Presence (You could do it in Unholy, but the shorter GCD just means you'll be waiting more and it would make you actually have to watch HB's cooldown rather than just use it in the rotation where it's CD fits) you can do this:

IT -> PS -> HB -> DC -> BS -> BS -> DC -> Wait (Letting diseases tick full)

If Rime procs you change to

IT -> PS -> HB -> DC -> BS -> BS -> HB -> DC

After 2 rime procs you'll have an excess 40 RP available and you can fill a Wait with a DC on one rotation.

Doing this you'll never have to obliterate. Also, as gargoyle's CD is nearing you can forgo both DCs in a rotation (using your DoT timer on Frost Fever to tell you when to IT (and thus start the rotation) again. This will leave you with 80 RP to use for gargoyle, and if you wanted max you just start one DC earlier and store up that RP too.

Note: That one point in virulence could be put into Corpse explosion, or Outbreak to boost PS a bit, it's just a lonely filler point to get to the gargoyle tier.

methods · 11/07/08, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

Just to confirm, this is assuming sundered/faerie fire boss mob correct? Also I am not sure if armor pen is applied first or last, I assume last which would decrease the value if you assumed first. I am pretty surprised how high the numbers are I didn't think it would be better than expertise & crit for blood/frost.

This is applied to the base value of armor for the mob. It also includes Sunders and FF. I could apply it to the the end of the formula instead if that makes more sense. Anyone have confirmation on which is accurate? You are right that this could lower the value.

This is what I used:
Damage reduction= (Armor*APR-debuffs)/(Armor*APR-debuffs)+15232.5)

Should it just be =(Armor/(Armor+15232.5))*APR?

I can change it in a few seconds if i can get a confirmation.

Illundai · 11/07/08, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Torrential

1 Request: Add in the numbers required (rating and conversion etc.) for expertise as is done with hit.

Can do. Just for some confirmation one point of Expertise converts to 0.25% less chance to be dodged and parried, right? I can't seem to find clear information on if this is still the case at level 80.

That aside, I'll re-evaluate the Tri-Spec build/rotation a bit later on tonight. Got no experience whatsoever with the spec though, so people feel free to evaluate whether we should change that bit or not.
I changed the Blood Specs to have Rune Tap and Mark of Blood instead of Bloodworms. You can put those points in other places obviously, but I think RT & MoB are the better choices for raiding.

I also added ArP to the stats comparison table, while adding AP there as well (at least I assumed it was comparing to 1 AP), added Glyphs and Attack Power coefficients. Next up will be fleshing out the Professions section.

Also, still need some stuff to put under the Pet section, I wish I had some clue about those and I would do it myself, but alas.

Aeryn · 11/07/08, 12:25 PM

It may be a good idea to mention the different auras in the paragraphs about benefits brought by a spec: they all provide very nice raid buffs, especially Unholy Aura for DPS. And somewhat surprisingly, the effects are all unique to DKs as opposed to other classes. Personally, I think they are essential in any spec (with the exception of DW tri-spec, obviously). Sure, you might lose out on 2% personal DPS with Blood or Frost Aura, but considering you increase the survivability of the entire raid, that seems like a small price to pay.

Torrential · 11/07/08, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

That aside, I'll re-evaluate the Tri-Spec build/rotation a bit later on tonight. Got no experience whatsoever with the spec though, so people feel free to evaluate whether we should change that bit or not.

I guess I should add the qualifier that I didn't play beta at all. What I came up with is based purely on a spreadsheet. In-game experience certainly trumps that if anybody sees a problem with what I proposed.

Rockers · 11/07/08, 12:29 PM

Very nice summary, Illundai.

For some of the dps questions we have to wait a bit longer i guess, till we can test it on life (like gargoyle and drw).

About professions:

Herbalism: [Fire Leaf] - Seems to be completely useless for DKs in its current implementation because of Bladed Armor. Hope they change it to increases physical damage taken by 20% or something like that.

Alchemy: Reports are either +60 AP (+33%) or +90 AP (+50%) for [Flask of Endless Rage]. Big problem is, you have to be able to make it yourself to get the bonus. You can only discover 1 recipe per week (so it might take 20+ weeks to get it).

Tailoring: Depends on internal cooldown. 25% proc chance. 1 ppm would be 75 AP average.

Flamingcloud · 11/07/08, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

Can do. Just for some confirmation one point of Expertise converts to 0.25% less chance to be dodged and parried, right? I can't seem to find clear information on if this is still the case at level 80.

That aside, I'll re-evaluate the Tri-Spec build/rotation a bit later on tonight. Got no experience whatsoever with the spec though, so people feel free to evaluate whether we should change that bit or not.
I changed the Blood Specs to have Rune Tap and Mark of Blood instead of Bloodworms. You can put those points in other places obviously, but I think RT & MoB are the better choices for raiding.

I also added ArP to the stats comparison table, while adding AP there as well (at least I assumed it was comparing to 1 AP), added Glyphs and Attack Power coefficients. Next up will be fleshing out the Professions section.

Also, still need some stuff to put under the Pet section, I wish I had some clue about those and I would do it myself, but alas.

1 Expertise Skill is 0.25%, 32.78998947 Rating is 1%, so 8.1974973675 rating is 1 skill. Fairly certain the original table is compared to a 1 dps increase and not 1 attack power(as 1 strength is not ever going to be 2.5+ ap)

Clandestine · 11/07/08, 12:32 PM

1 Point of Expertise is still equivalent to .25% dodge and parry reduction.

Blood Aura is not a significant survivability increase under normal circumstances, although it is useful for some gimmicks.

Illundai · 11/07/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

1 Expertise Skill is 0.25%, 32.78998947 Rating is 1%, so 8.1974973675 rating is 1 skill. Fairly certain the original table is compared to a 1 dps increase and not 1 attack power(as 1 strength is not ever going to be 2.5+ ap)

Thanks, and good catch. Not sure how I overlooked that.

Edit: Scrap that, it seems like it's compared to 1 AP after all. Putting it back up there :P.

methods · 11/07/08, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

1 Expertise Skill is 0.25%, 32.78998947 Rating is 1%, so 8.1974973675 rating is 1 skill. Fairly certain the original table is compared to a 1 dps increase and not 1 attack power(as 1 strength is not ever going to be 2.5+ ap)

It is based on stat vs ap. Str gets a lot of bonuses and stacks up very nicely in a raid environment. You have to consider Kings, Talents in each tree, AND Fallen Crusader especially (15 seconds of 30% more STR every minute).

1 STR before everything is worth 2 AP. All you would need is around a 25% increase in STR after all buffs to reach this level.

There is a possibility of mistakes as usual so when I get some time I'll double check.