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Old 10/13/09, 11:45 AM   #2221
athinker
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Magtheridon (EU)
delete please. (previous question amended appropriately)

Last edited by athinker : 10/13/09 at 11:50 AM.

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Old 10/13/09, 5:27 PM   #2222
Eneswar
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
Steamwheedle Cartel (EU)
Hello, im a Frost tank using this spec Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft.

Im wondering whats the proper way of gemming. So far I have gemmed stamina with dodge but some say stamina with defence is better. What does everyone else think?

Thanks

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Old 10/13/09, 5:50 PM   #2223
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by athinker View Post
I heard a poster here firmly believing that Death Strike is higher threat that Heart Strike (in Blood specced tanking). Is it true? The end-game tanking thread lists HS having a priority in single-target rotation while DS is glyphed.
One DS does more tps than one Heart Strike, however one costs 2 runes versus 1 rune. HS use is the correct priority (unless you needed a heal and DS lands in time, then you get half the heal's amount in threat, however usually healers beat you to it).

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Old 10/13/09, 7:00 PM   #2224
elf-boy
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Khaz Modan
Auto attack mechanics

Its seems such a simple thing yet I can’t find the answer in black and white anywhere.
How do auto attacks work?

Not so much how do they hit as what determines when and how often they swing?

Are they independent from strikes and spells (since except for AOTD all my spells are instant cast)?

Does haste and presence affect them?

I played around on the dummy a bit and got the impression melee just goes at a set rate independent of strikes etc and that unholy presence does increase the number of swing. Implying that haste would also increase white hits (in blood anyways).

Is this correct?

Another thing I am curious about and lack the knowledge of statistics and hard core math to figure on my own, after melee hit cap for dual wield, 5%, does additional hit increase white damage as a linier function? Or is it a curve of some sort?

Last edited by elf-boy : 10/14/09 at 5:23 PM.

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Old 10/14/09, 6:11 AM   #2225
Pintofbrew
Hand Wind Only
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Your question could be answered by merely looking at your character panel, or even the abysmal wikis that abound. Haste affects the swing timer, that's practically all it does unless you're casting. You could discover this just by swapping presences and reading your Melee tab. The melee hit cap is not 5% and hit never did increase anything as a linear function. Hit past any cap is pointless in PvE. Hit past the cap in PvP only serves as a mitigation to abilities that increase character resistance or racial resistance, like Cloak of Shadows or the Bloodelf magic resistance racial.

"i like farm pot, even only 1 gold drops from a pot, i will still farm it anyway for nothing just to hear the crisp sound. this is a superb playing style that you can't understand."

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Old 10/14/09, 5:57 PM   #2226
ValkyrĂ e
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Khadgar (EU)
Did a quick search about spell power scaling for DK's dps, but didn't really find anything useful so I'm asking this here:
Does spell power scale any at all for DK's? My mate was wondering if it did so he could put more accurate statweights to spell power regarding demonic pact in some simulator.
In case it does would it be possible to get some numbers? Like for example how much would 1 SP averagely increase dps.

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Old 10/14/09, 6:26 PM   #2227
Maxxthepenguin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Quel'dorei
Spell power has absolutely no effect on anything a DK does. Attack power functions like spell power for all our spells.

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Old 10/14/09, 9:56 PM   #2228
Dev93L
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Shadowsong
I did post this in the Rawr thread, but it can be posted here, just in a different degree. It doesn't seem as if that thread is getting a lot of traffic.

I hope this is not a stupid question, I've searched every thread I could think of to search.

I have a DW DK, 0/53/18. I have 4 piece T7. I have enough badges to purchase the T9 shoulders.

Rawr evaluated these shoulders as only a 6 unbuffed DPS upgrade, despite the new shoulders having almost 60 more attack power, more hit, crit, etc. I tried the correct color gem to make sure it was not breaking my meta, and so on.

I assumed the four piece bonus was not that great, but maybe the 4t7 is a lot better than I originally thought. I know I do throw a lot of Frost Strikes out, but since I'm usually capped on RP until I go to dump, I couldn't imagine it making that big of a difference.

Thoughts?

Last edited by Dev93L : 10/14/09 at 10:04 PM.

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Old 10/15/09, 2:23 AM   #2229
wlbromley
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Nazgrel
Simple Question

For a Death Knight, which is more important to focus on, strength or agility?

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Old 10/15/09, 6:45 AM   #2230
Lyssa
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Al'Akir (EU)
@ Dev93L: I don't know if RAWR is updated with the 4T7 nerf, which could account for the high value of the set (it used to be 10 extra RP). Either way, the T9 shoulders should definitely be an upgrade, and you should try to get 2 and 4 pieces of T9 as soon as possible.

@wlbromley: Strength is better for any spec by a huge margin.

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Old 10/15/09, 10:59 AM   #2231
elf-boy
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Khaz Modan
Originally Posted by Pintofbrew View Post
Your question could be answered by merely looking at your character panel, or even the abysmal wikis that abound. Haste affects the swing timer, that's practically all it does unless you're casting. You could discover this just by swapping presences and reading your Melee tab. The melee hit cap is not 5% and hit never did increase anything as a linear function. Hit past any cap is pointless in PvE. Hit past the cap in PvP only serves as a mitigation to abilities that increase character resistance or racial resistance, like Cloak of Shadows or the Bloodelf magic resistance racial.
I am aware that haste reduces swing time. Does it also reduce the GCD (provided your not in unholy presence) thus getting an additive effect. (faster swings more often).

How does melee attack frequency work? Is it independent from the global cool down? Is it independent from any strikes and/or spells cast? Does it sit there adding up damage at a pretty set rate despite anything else you might be doing? Or does other activity slow or interrupt white damage?

As for hit, I was unclear, I forgot to mention with respect to dual wielding where the strike hit cap is 5%. The dw melee hit cap being 24%. Does +hit over 5% add more damage in a liner function or with diminishing returns?

As hit gets closer to 24% it seems that the number of misses would start to diminish rapidly at some point. Where is the break in that curve? Or is it a straight line?

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Old 10/15/09, 11:48 AM   #2232
Thunderchylde
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Frostwolf
Haste reduces the swing time on your white hits. It also reduces the GCD on your spells (IT, BB, PE, DC, DnD) which means that you do get through most rotations at least slightly quicker (e.g. if you are under 200 or so haste it is better to run imp unholy, see the unholy thread for more info).

As far as hit is concerned - you should only focus on getting the 263 hit rating to ensure that you don't miss with special attacks, beyond that hit is far less attractive than other stats (you do however want to get to 13% spell hit including talents, so your spells won't miss). I can't answer to the maths of the curve though.

Unless you cast/do something that resets your swing timer your white attacks will continue while you cast other strikes - I can't speak to which spells reset the swing timer for DKs, apart from any non-instant.

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Old 10/15/09, 11:57 AM   #2233
Jimmy
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Shadow Council
Originally Posted by Thunderchylde View Post
Haste reduces the swing time on your white hits. It also reduces the GCD on your spells (IT, BB, PE, DC, DnD) which means that you do get through most rotations at least slightly quicker (e.g. if you are under 200 or so haste it is better to run imp unholy, see the unholy thread for more info).

As far as hit is concerned - you should only focus on getting the 263 hit rating to ensure that you don't miss with special attacks, beyond that hit is far less attractive than other stats (you do however want to get to 13% spell hit including talents, so your spells won't miss). I can't answer to the maths of the curve though.

Unless you cast/do something that resets your swing timer your white attacks will continue while you cast other strikes - I can't speak to which spells reset the swing timer for DKs, apart from any non-instant.
Note that the effects of haste depends a lot on your spec and ability usage. As mentioned, only a few abilities have their GCD reduced, so the effect of haste is increased/decreased by that. For example, Unholy specs that favor DC spam will get a good deal out of haste, whereas a Frost build that uses only one 'spell' every 20 seconds (either Icy touch or Pestilence, depending on IIT or GoD) get practically nothing. When in doubt, use Kahorie's sim I've found to be a good policy

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Old 10/16/09, 7:12 AM   #2234
Pintofbrew
Hand Wind Only
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Originally Posted by elf-boy View Post

As for hit, I was unclear, I forgot to mention with respect to dual wielding where the strike hit cap is 5%. The dw melee hit cap being 24%. Does +hit over 5% add more damage in a liner function or with diminishing returns?

As hit gets closer to 24% it seems that the number of misses would start to diminish rapidly at some point. Where is the break in that curve? Or is it a straight line?
You seem to be confusing linearity. Hit past 8% (not 5%, as I corrected you already) will not affect special melee attacks. Hit past 18% will not affect Spell attacks. Hit past 24% will not affect anything at all.

It's inaccurate to call it Linear to begin with. Each % of hit increase gives you less and less, relatively, for example a 50% hit increasing to 51% hit is a relative 2% increase, while a 99% going to 100% is just a relative 1.01% increase. The rate of decay, however, is totally linear.

There is no curves involved, and at no point is there a drop-off, an inflection point, or any irregularity related to maths.

Strictly, the only critical points are 8%, 18% and 24%, and then only because Hit stops affecting some part of your DPS cycle. Those are not related to the rate-of-decay of Hit rating's benefit however.

"i like farm pot, even only 1 gold drops from a pot, i will still farm it anyway for nothing just to hear the crisp sound. this is a superb playing style that you can't understand."

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Old 10/16/09, 9:19 AM   #2235
Amroo
LF sun
 
Amroo's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Originally Posted by Pintofbrew View Post
Strictly, the only critical points are 8%, 18% and 24%, and then only because Hit stops affecting some part of your DPS cycle. Those are not related to the rate-of-decay of Hit rating's benefit however.
In fact, the critical points are 8% melee, 17% spell and 27% melee.

At 8% (melee hit) 2H and special melee hit is capped. For DW with Nerves of Cold Steel this point is at 5%.
At 17% (spell hit) spell hit is capped. With Improved Faerie Fire / Misery (3%) and Virulence (3%) this point is at 11%. Notice, though, that spell hit scales faster than melee hit, so 11% spell hit equals about 9% melee hit.
At 27% (melee hit) DW autoattacks are capped. With Nerves of Cold Steel this point is at 24%.

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