Death Knight: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 16

chrsjxn · 11/20/08, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by Xelopheris

A lot of information to give out here for one post...

Rune Strike only triggers on INCOMING attacks. Luckily, when soloing, DK's strength gives them a hefty amount of parry, so we can proc it a lot that way. It does not proc on outgoing attacks.

Necrosis - Damages, never seen it dodge or parry, not sure about miss.

BCB - Procs can get parried/dodged/miss. It's like an extra attack (think sword-spec)

Killing Machine - This is a chance on hit to gain a buff -- has nothing to do with outgoing attacks and procs.

I think LockApologist was asking if Rune Strike triggered the extra damage from Necrosis or the procs of BCB and Killing Machine.

LockApologist · 11/20/08, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Xelopheris

A lot of information to give out here for one post...

Rune Strike only triggers on INCOMING attacks. Luckily, when soloing, DK's strength gives them a hefty amount of parry, so we can proc it a lot that way. It does not proc on outgoing attacks.

Necrosis - Damages, never seen it dodge or parry, not sure about miss.

BCB - Procs can get parried/dodged/miss. It's like an extra attack (think sword-spec)

Killing Machine - This is a chance on hit to gain a buff -- has nothing to do with outgoing attacks and procs.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I understand that my dodge/parry triggers rune strike. I understand that Necro/BCB/KM are triggered from my auto attacks hitting.

My question is, since Runestrike is an on next melee attack, will it proc the 'on auto attack' talents listed above? So, if I use Rune strike, will it also apply BCB/Necro/KM? i.e. Heroic strike proc'ing old Wind fury vs MS not proc'ing old Wind fury

ranalin · 11/20/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by slant

Desecration: Another debatable one. This talent locks the DK into using plague strike, eliminating the choice of the scourge strike glyph, and offers a 20/40/60/80/100% chance of 5% overall damage in a small static area. I disregard the snare effect. If desecration was a 100% chance of a 1/2/3/4/5% damage increase and the effect moved with my character, this would be a much more attractive talent. Based purely on numbers it's worthwhile; in the actual game I try to skip it.

It might as well be 100% there's rarely a fight i'm in where it doesn't proc and using the Blood Strike glyph that causes blood strike to do +20% damage to snared targets is a nice increase to dps.

Malphayden · 11/20/08, 3:45 PM

Most frost builds I've seen all seem to take all 5 points in Killing machine. I even took it in a build I just put together. But, I find myself wondering if it's really worth the 5 points if your using a 2h wep. I'm 72 at the moment, so still leveling. It doesn't seem like I'm doing many auto attacks. I'm using PS>IT>BS>BS>OB>FS. After that most mobs are dead. Bottom line, is it really worth 5 points if you're using a slow 2 hander?

Gort · 11/20/08, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by ranalin

It might as well be 100% there's rarely a fight i'm in where it doesn't proc and using the Blood Strike glyph that causes blood strike to do +20% damage to snared targets is a nice increase to dps.

The Desecration snare does not, to the best of my knowledge, work on bosses, making the BS glyph useful for trash and PVP only.

Feorthas · 11/20/08, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Malphayden

Most frost builds I've seen all seem to take all 5 points in Killing machine. I even took it in a build I just put together. But, I find myself wondering if it's really worth the 5 points if your using a 2h wep. I'm 72 at the moment, so still leveling. It doesn't seem like I'm doing many auto attacks. I'm using PS>IT>BS>BS>OB>FS. After that most mobs are dead. Bottom line, is it really worth 5 points if you're using a slow 2 hander?

Short & vague answer: It depends on your critrate, hitrate, spell pen, and what you use the proc on (need a spreadsheet to figure it out).

Longer, mildly promising answer:
(Warnings: Napkin math, no resist or miss taken into account)

IF...
... You have a 3.5 speed weapon
... Your critrate is 10%
... You succeed at using KM on Frost Strike ONLY
... Frost Strike is critting @ 260% (how off is my memory? :-/)

You will see up to a 41.4% increase in Frost Strike damage.

A 20% critrate yields a 32% increase and a 30% critrate nets a little above 25%.

Remember, the key is that you'll only be using an applicable ability so often so while you only crit, say, one in 10 swings, you just bumped another ability's critrate enormously because you use it about 1/3rd as often!
-----
Edit: Ok, so Frost Strike Crits for 245%--that probably lowers the increase a bit but not a horrible amount. Probably 5-7.5% per.

Pyran · 11/20/08, 5:18 PM

How long do death runes last for when unused? I've tried running a bunch of tests on it and come up with inconsistent results. Sometimes the runes revert to their original type immediately after battle, sometimes 10 seconds, sometimes 30 seconds, and occasionally I can run across a third of a zone and still have my death runes available. Is there any consistent formula that can be used to determine when they'll revert?

Prinsesa · 11/20/08, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Keline

How is the Death Coil damage calculation working? It says 208 damage on the tooltip and I'm easily coiling for 600+

Death Coil's tooltip does not indicate the coefficient calculation, and thus will only show the base damage.

-Abakus- · 11/21/08, 12:40 AM

the tooltip of DRW says that it will perform the same attacks as the death knight.
It follows that if you do a death strike, the DRW will also do a death strike.

My question is, however, does the DRW's death strike heal you?
i'll try to test this later myself, if no one has an immediate answer. i'm also interested in knowing if diseases applied by the DRW stack with yours, if it can proc bloodworms, etc.

Noraj · 11/21/08, 2:15 AM

Originally Posted by -Abakus-

the tooltip of DRW says that it will perform the same attacks as the death knight.
It follows that if you do a death strike, the DRW will also do a death strike.

My question is, however, does the DRW's death strike heal you?
i'll try to test this later myself, if no one has an immediate answer. i'm also interested in knowing if diseases applied by the DRW stack with yours, if it can proc bloodworms, etc.

No, you can't be healed by its DS, nor should it be able to proc bloodworms. HOWEVER, if you use Raise Dead while Dancing Rune Weapon is active, it will summon a second ghoul that will last for the remainder the DRW's duration. I haven't levelled high enough to test it, or asked a level 80 player to, but I suspect the same sort of thing can happen with Army of the Dead.

Keline · 11/21/08, 3:03 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Death Coil's tooltip does not indicate the coefficient calculation, and thus will only show the base damage.

Since I don't have any spell damage, what is the coefficient?

Prinsesa · 11/21/08, 3:20 AM

As mentioned in the DK DPS Compendium, Death Coil has a 15% AP coefficient.

Boneknight112 · 11/21/08, 5:03 AM

I'm currently unholy spec'd and was wondering how much Dodge and Parry is recommended for tanking heroics and or naxx. Also can someone tell me how to work out how much avoidance i have or tell me what the formula for working it out is. Thanks any help is appreciated.

dreadai · 11/21/08, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by Boneknight112

I'm currently unholy spec'd and was wondering how much Dodge and Parry is recommended for tanking heroics and or naxx. Also can someone tell me how to work out how much avoidance i have or tell me what the formula for working it out is. Thanks any help is appreciated.

As with anything tank based, your initial concern should be to become uncrittable through Defence, this will also increase your dodge/parry more than looking at individual ratings. There is some theorycraft for DK tanking around, a lot is on DeathKnight.info but also check out TankSpot

Originally Posted by Deth

What is blood tap used for? I am trying to figure out when this ability would be useful. Only place I can see using it is in PvP when your rune cooldowns may go off track and you need to do a FU maneuver badly.

I find it useful to utilise the Death Rune's ability to be used in place of another rune. Mostly when AE tanking (as frost), I can do D&D, HB, Pestilence, PS, IT, Blood Tap, BB as it brings up death runes, allowing Bloodboil to be used. But, then again, I do tank for maniacs sometimes. As D&D + HB should be enough to hold most things.

Calgar · 11/21/08, 10:30 AM

Question about the Blood Strike Glyph.

Blood Strike

1. Does it work on raid bosses if say, frost bolt debuff, or whatever other snare is up? I ask since most bosses aren't affected by snares and was wondering if this would work.

2. Does it work with heart strike? Since heart and blood strike are interchange-able in many places I'm not certain.