I figure I should toss this in here instead of the tanking thread, but as the topic was just on it.

I was wondering, between the Black Heart and one of the two 245+ armour trinkets, is the latter two worth it (in a physical fight)?

edit: and yes, each Obliterate hit has a chance to proc rime, so DW frost gets 2 chances per Oblit.

As I understand it, Spell Penetration doesn't effect most PvE content because most bosses do not have resistances to any specific school of magic, only the innately higher chance to resist spells of lower level opponents. Spell Pen works by negating some of an opponent's spell resistance, so if your opponent has no resistances, then it does nothing.

CoE decreases resistances rather than penetrates. I know it used to be able to take resistances into the negative, but I'm not sure if it still does or not.

Anyway, Spell Penetration is almost purely a PvP stat now, as far as I'm aware.

You are right and he is an idiot.

Yes, dual wielded Obliterates do receive an extra chance to proc Rime. It works much like Mutilates chance to proc an extra combo point through Seal Fate with a critical strike of one, the other, or both.

In this case with Obliterate the formula to calculate each chance on an Obliterate to proc Rime would be:

2(.15) - (.15)^2 = 27.75%

In patch 3.3.3 - for a tank in mainly ilvl232 gear (eg T9 set) what would be the expected threat difference between 2H frost and DW?

There is no simple answer to a question like this. You basically have to sim your stats + & - the changes and see what works best. Those #'s are VERY genralized based on typical stats at those gear levels. Having a couple different pieces than the set it was simmed with, or gear spread out over multiple gear levels will completely throw off the numbers.

For Unholy, the BiS for 10man strict list Herkuml War Token as the trinket to use over DMC:Greatness.

How much of a DPS upgrade is it?(assuming all other slots are the BiS of 10m strict set)

You should run a EP simulation of your own gear to be sure, but generally, yes expertise is a weaker stat for unholy. This is because Unholy actually has a free GCD or two during the rotation and because of this dodged attacks won't set you back much. If you are at the point where diseases are falling off before you can finish every rotation because you keep getting dodged attacks, then you should invest in "some" expertise. However for Blood and Frost it is increasingly valuable because these rotations are much tighter and rely more on their physical attacks landing.

I'm currently going to try both meta-achievements on Lich King 10m encounter (last for our drakes), and I'm considering changing build for max AoE during last phase (non-exploding Vile Spirits). Ofcourse the only way of damaging them (and applying ebon plaguebringer) for DK is using Pestilence while they spawn. Now, assuming I meanage to reach and DoT all of them, I'm trying to get my build and gear as good as possible for AoE (DoT damage). I'm considering use of 4pc t9 and AP trinket (245 Death's Choice) instead of ArP trinket (277 Deathbringer's Will) and 4pc t10 (and ofc crit meta instead of agi one). Now, I also consider changing my build a bit to boots DoT damage (as single-target DPS requirements are joke in 10m anyways). Question is, witch of this builds should work better:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
or
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
[note: I'm the only person who can actually slow Valkyries during p2 so Desecration is must-to-take]
I'm not sure if 10% damage from both diseases (Black Ice) actuually wins over 2 extra points in Bladed Armor (more AP scaling with disease damage) and extra 5% crit for Blood Plague (assuming use of 4p t9). Cold logic says it is, but I cant get calculator to confirm or deny it for some reason :|. Any opiniony or advices?

We run setup with only 3 ranged, and just 2 of them (spriest and fire mage) being strong at AoE, so my diseases support is very usefull. It's gonna be RLY rng-based for us as any ranged being ported to Frostmourne means mostly like explidong spirits.

I'm allso not quite sure whare should I post this. Thanks.

You won't be able too

While I won't say you should not do it, I did the achivement with my regular trinkets DBW 264 and 258 deaths choice with agility meta gem (changing meta is marginal and should not be a concern) I used my 4 x tier 10, I mean considering the massiv strength boost and the 3% damage from the 4 set. I am pretty sure this will rival your crit from 4 x tier 9. Also consider that someone has to do single target dps or the encounter will never end here just keeping your regular gear and spec will be beneficial aswell


First of all it's 10 man, there is no need what so ever to spec into Desercration, you can just chains of ice it.
secondly thats not true you said yourself you got a shadowpriest & a fire mage both of which has very nice slows (mind flay will be the best option here) fair better then you specing some semi retarded spec when he can just use his "main nuke" not knowing the rest of your setup I would guess there is other slow options (frost shock forexample) and multiple of stuns. it's one add .. one! trust me it's handable without you respecing.

sub blood is better then sub frost, if you read the TOC unholy thread that was made obvious in there.

We did this with two more ranged (a warlock & a resto shaman going elemental) and I would strongly sugest you sit a melee for a warlock as SoC is ace here.
on our first port it was our spriest (our best aoe) and we still got all the sprits down so it is doable with 3 but if you get a ranged ported you are screwed. Do yourself a favor bring an extra ranged! Also you will/should use chains of ice alot on these it is amazingly usefull and buys your ranged much time as they start to come down chains them. Alittle sidenote elemental shamans can knock them back.

I wish you good luck, but I strongly sugest bringing more ranged dps, and use only 2 healers.
the drakes are worth it my friend.

Hi, I've been a frost DW tank ever since I created my DK. I really enjoy the Rime/KM 'proc' system.
Recently due unbalanced raid signteams, I've been 'forced' to dps sometimes in ICC 10 content.
Since my dpsgear is primary made up out of T9 emblem gear/and leftover tank weaponry I'm going to stick with DW'ing.

I was comparing the classic deep DW frost builds vs this DW Unholy spec (0/18/53) (Reapingless and 2/2 Dirge)
Since we almost never take an enh shaman to the raid, it seemed logical to always pick up IIT.
Due unbalanced raid setups, we somemes stack many melee (including Blood DK's), or many casters. So I guess it's better to go with the Unholy spec, since ITT and Cryptfever/Ebon Plague are pretty nice raidbuffs, boosting both melees and casters.
Or is the personnal dps loss too big compared to a classic deep frost DW build?

Also I'm not sure what to use as Runeforge... MH Rune of Fallen Crusader + OH: Rune of Cinderglacier
or 2x FC, 2x Cinder?