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Old 04/03/10, 10:20 AM   #2716
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
There is not, to the best of my knowledge, an addon that does such a thing. I would discourage it as I think it would lead to poorer play, as an addon can't ever be as effective as you are when it comes to decision making and Frost really isn't that hard to play.

Originally Posted by Fric View Post
ginger booty get on with yo bad self

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Old 04/03/10, 8:29 PM   #2717
Totentanz
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Crushridge (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
There is not, to the best of my knowledge, an addon that does such a thing. I would discourage it as I think it would lead to poorer play, as an addon can't ever be as effective as you are when it comes to decision making and Frost really isn't that hard to play.
It's not a matter of easy/hard. It's a matter of better dps (since a human player will hardly be able to know exactly when to time a pestilence without wasting gcds) and a way to focus on other things (player position, boss abilities etc)
without having to keep track of disease timers, spells cds, various class/talent/item procs.

"An addon can't ever be as effective as you are". Yes, I guess addons are only used by unexprienced players.

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Old 04/03/10, 8:48 PM   #2718
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
It's not a matter of easy/hard. It's a matter of better dps (since a human player will hardly be able to know exactly when to time a pestilence without wasting gcds) and a way to focus on other things (player position, boss abilities etc)
without having to keep track of disease timers, spells cds, various class/talent/item procs.

"An addon can't ever be as effective as you are". Yes, I guess addons are only used by unexprienced players.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Using pestilence to refresh your diseases is really simple right now, you simply wait until there are <2s left on the disease timers and hit pest. If you do it right, you will *always* have a blood rune up, so all you really have to do is remember "when I have a blood rune, I need to hit pestilence".

I don't grasp your intent with the jab at the end of your post. Obviously not all addons encourage poor play; many of them actually improve player skill. However, something that tells you which buttons which to push and when will only lead to a poor understanding of class mechanics and result in lower quality play in the dynamic situations presented during various raid encounters.

Last edited by Darkside : 04/03/10 at 9:24 PM.

Originally Posted by Fric View Post
ginger booty get on with yo bad self

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Old 04/03/10, 9:00 PM   #2719
Amroo
LF sun
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
"An addon can't ever be as effective as you are". Yes, I guess addons are only used by unexprienced players.
Addons are usually used to present information or to present decisions that always follow as a result of given information (boss mod telling you to get out of the fire). Addons that yield decisions that depend on multiple factors, many of which can't be observed / predicted by the addon (like how the fight will evolve in the next 15 seconds), but can be easily observed by the player ("I will have to run away from the boss, so it might be better to save ability X for that time, because I won't be able to use ability Y then, although the addon tells me I should use ability X now") are usually inferior to on-the-spot decisions by the player.

Originally Posted by Frozn View Post
You can be sure that I will never post something anymore. Your arrogance and snobism makes me feel sick, enjoy your idiot infractions. Your community just lost one of the best moonkin of the alliance (gearscore).

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Old 04/04/10, 5:25 AM   #2720
Totentanz
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Crushridge (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Using pestilence to refresh your diseases is really simple right now, you simply wait until there are <2s left on the disease timers and hit pest. If you do it right, you will *always* have a blood rune up, so all you really have to do is remember "when I have a blood rune, I need to hit pestilence".
I don't think so. Assuming your spec is DW Frost, you will have to play according to a priority system instead o a fixed rotation, assuming information published in this thread is correct
Frost DPS in 3.3.3::This will be a day long remembered

now, nothing grants that you will have a blood rune up when disease timers will be inferior to 2 seconds if you play according to that rotation. And you will probabily don't have Blood Tap ready since it will be linked with Unbreakable Armor in a macro.

So you will have to think about using pestilence when timers are inferior to 10 seconds, which is a rune cooldown timer,
you will have to think that if you activate both blood runes in that time frame (using an obliterate on 2 death, or using 2 blood strikes) you won't be able to refresh diseases. Now explain me why doing that and simultaneously have the fight, the player position, and all that priority system under control is trivial.
Most enh shamans use ShockAndAwe addon, why should they? Their combat system is comparable to Frost DW DKs', like 7-8-9 abilities with a (almost) fixed priority order.

Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
I don't grasp your intent with the jab at the end of your post. Obviously not all addons encourage poor play; many of them actually improve player skill. However, something that tells you which buttons which to push and when will only lead to a poor understanding of class mechanics and result in lower quality play in the dynamic situations presented during various raid encounters.
I assume players using that kind of addon actually could be knowing their class mechanics. It's just most humans can't be as efficient as a machine when it comes to numbers crunching. Of course the addon won't solve all of your problems, it's not an auto-pilot. It will just ease some complex calculations about which spell should be cast next. Assuming , obviously, you don't think playing a Frost DK just means learning a spell rotation and spamming it.

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Old 04/04/10, 10:05 AM   #2721
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Totentanz View Post
I don't think so. Assuming your spec is DW Frost, you will have to play according to a priority system instead o a fixed rotation, assuming information published in this thread is correct
Frost DPS in 3.3.3::This will be a day long remembered

now, nothing grants that you will have a blood rune up when disease timers will be inferior to 2 seconds if you play according to that rotation. And you will probably don't have Blood Tap ready since it will be linked with Unbreakable Armor in a macro.
You simply make a priority out of using your Death Runes before you have less than 10 seconds left on your disease duration. It's not really as hard as you make it out to be, and certainly nothing in the Frost priority system requires a mod like you're looking for unless you're a bit scatter brained and can't keep track of what you need to do for both your rotation and the encounter you're engaged in.

The GoD play style is a little more rigid and rotation-like than non-GoD because of the need to keep a handle on your Blood Runes, but other than that the way you play remains largely the same.

There's already enough to keep track of on-screen that I can't imagine a priority frame would be more help than a distraction anyway.

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Old 04/05/10, 11:22 AM   #2722
Pugageddon
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Dawnbringer
With the runeforge discussion going on in the frost thread atm, I find myself curious as to the exact mechanics of BCB.

1) Does BCB proc MH damage no matter which weapon proc'd the strike similar to the way sword spec always procs a MH swing, or does it deal it's damage based on the weapon that caused the proc.

2) Will blood caked strikes proc runeforges (can't see any reason that they wouldn't, but I'd like confirmation)?

My interest lies in determining if this would help influence the decison to RI/FC or FC/RI based on the relative value of the procs- more uptime on FC or a few more RI procs. Granted, the dps difference would likely be minimal either way, but it's static and requires no maintenance once the runeforges are applied.

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Old 04/06/10, 12:44 AM   #2723
Nerdrage_
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Jubei'Thos
While I actually do think a "Shock and Awe" type mod for Frost DK's would benefit people who are perhaps newer to the spec, the problem in general with such mods for death-knights (in my brief tests of them) has been that they do not handle rune cool-downs (particularly with death runes) very well. This leads to it often suggesting attacks which can no longer be done and/or quickly changing the suggestion just before you press your button -- which just gets confusing.

I think it has a lot to do with the 2 second rule.

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Old 04/07/10, 12:33 PM   #2724
Taathan
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Azshara
Top DPS

I've looked and can not find a simple answer. What spec has the highest single target dps?

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Old 04/07/10, 12:57 PM   #2725
Yubble
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Bladefist
Originally Posted by Taathan View Post
I've looked and can not find a simple answer. What spec has the highest single target dps?
Heh... probably because there isn't a simple answer. All three can out-dps each other depending on raid makeup/buffs present. In absolutely best in slot gear, including Shadowmourne, and skill being equal, Blood is probably the highest single target dps. The most simple to play and do competitive dps under most situations is probably Unholy. With two really good 1h's, and enhance sham and unholy dk in the raid, Frost will often be the highest. All these situations assume that gear and skill are equal between specs.

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Old 04/07/10, 1:05 PM   #2726
Yubble
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Bladefist
Didn't know where else to post this...

Just want to compare my dps to others with similar gear. I'm dw frost.

I'm pulling about 9500-10k on stand still fights in 25 ICC with the 5% dmg buff. I've seen logs of people pulling a decent amount more (11-12k) with slightly better gear than me. I really don't think I can perform much better - my priority is good, I use KM almost exclusively for FS, my diseases are always up, etc.

I'm wondering if this dps looks about right for my gear level, and if a couple trinket upgrades, GoD, and more armor pen could possibly push me into that 12k range. Any advice/criticism is much appreciated. Thanks

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Old 04/07/10, 2:41 PM   #2727
Tikiman49
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Paladin
 
Wyrmrest Accord
Through the grace of the WoW gods, I finally got an ilvl 251 OH to drop for me last night in ICC... which brings me to an interesting question. Prior to this change, I was using 2 Ony25 weapons as my offhands, one with Cinderglacier for trash/heroics, and one with Razorice for raid bosses.

So, now I'm stuck. Is it worth it for me to use a statless 245 weapon with Cinderglacier for trash, or will the higher melee damage and AP/Crit/Agi on the Frost Giant's Cleaver (with Razorice) balance out the lack of CG?

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Old 04/07/10, 2:42 PM   #2728
Ripebear
Banned
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Alonsus (EU)
Expertise

I posted before about expertise, but I realise I was actually mistaken because with Unholy it's beneficial to reapply diseases just as there falling off and with dodges would make this incredibly hard with a rigid rotation.

But i'll ask again, should I go for expertise cap on Unholy/Frost sub spec?

Some say I shouldn't gem for it, and just leave it as my gear gives (22)

Some say I should just cap it to avoid any dodges from behind (26)

And according to Rawr, gearing for it is a dps loss. (As in pure crit/arp pieces over it putting me to about 10/12 expertise)
I'm just a bit confused as to which I should go with, since testing it is pretty damn difficult with the randomness of dodges, just wanted peoples opinions on the matter.

Thanks

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Old 04/07/10, 2:52 PM   #2729
Yubble
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Bladefist
Originally Posted by Tikiman49 View Post
Through the grace of the WoW gods, I finally got an ilvl 251 OH to drop for me last night in ICC... which brings me to an interesting question. Prior to this change, I was using 2 Ony25 weapons as my offhands, one with Cinderglacier for trash/heroics, and one with Razorice for raid bosses.

So, now I'm stuck. Is it worth it for me to use a statless 245 weapon with Cinderglacier for trash, or will the higher melee damage and AP/Crit/Agi on the Frost Giant's Cleaver (with Razorice) balance out the lack of CG?
Why aren't you using Fallen Crusader? It's far superior to both of those runes. Most dk's do razorice on one and fallen crusader on the other. It's been that way for a LOOONG time now.

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Old 04/07/10, 2:54 PM   #2730
Yubble
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Bladefist
Originally Posted by Ripebear View Post
I posted before about expertise, but I realise I was actually mistaken because with Unholy it's beneficial to reapply diseases just as there falling off and with dodges would make this incredibly hard with a rigid rotation.

But i'll ask again, should I go for expertise cap on Unholy/Frost sub spec?

Some say I shouldn't gem for it, and just leave it as my gear gives (22)

Some say I should just cap it to avoid any dodges from behind (26)

And according to Rawr, gearing for it is a dps loss. (As in pure crit/arp pieces over it putting me to about 10/12 expertise)
I'm just a bit confused as to which I should go with, since testing it is pretty damn difficult with the randomness of dodges, just wanted peoples opinions on the matter.

Thanks
Gearing or gemming for expertise as Unholy is a dps loss. It's not hard to cap it with the current gear available, and doing so will only slightly nerf your dps. If you hate variability, then do that. If you don't mind a few dodges here and there (it will happen 5% of the time on your specials if you have 0 expertise), then don't worry about it.

Overcapping expertise is a very bad idea for unholy - in many cases, you'd probably get more benefit out of using the next lowest tier of a similar item.

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