Death Knight: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 26

Cyandire · 12/02/08, 2:04 AM

Quick question about enchants, apologies if this has already been covered but about our weapons is it better to go with the Rune forging enchants or go 110 ap to weapon? Rune of the fallen crusader seems nice with the strength buff (i assume kings affects it to?) but i remember reading it had a 1 ppm. I was just wondering if something like this is still better than the static 110 or 85 ap enchant, thoughts?

Radogor · 12/02/08, 6:13 AM

30% of current strength will give your something like 360 AP (it is for my current stats, blue 80 lvl gear, should be more in naxx gear). This is more than 110, obviously. The next thing I saw from Xyrm's WWS is that the buff is up for a lot of time (the proc rate seems about 35% - proced 146 times, and 140 times proced shaman' unleashed rage, which proc each melee crit, and melee crit is about 35%, according to same WWS).
What the disadvantage is that it is temporary buff, and basically it could proc exactly when you need to move, so you can not hit. These are my 2 cents.
What would be nice to see here is what the proc rate because I had no chance to verify it by myself yet.

Noraj · 12/02/08, 10:52 AM

[quote=Pyran;993689]I was looking at the DPS compendium again (specifically, the 51/13/7 Blood spec, which I'm working towards) and I have a question: Why is Toughness ignored, given the synergy with Bladed Armor?

Also, I just noticed, Improved Icy Touch and Glyph of Plague Strike would be incompatible, wouldn't they. Each one provides more damaged to diseased enemies, so if you have both one of the spells on your IT-PS-HS rotation (or PS-IT-HS) wouldn't get the benefit.

If you weren't using the Glyph would the tradeoff of Toughness for Improved Icy Touch/Glacier Rot even be worth it? I calculate that at 10k armor the extra bonus from Toughness would add just over 41 ap (assuming Blood Presence or Unholy Presence):

10000 * 1.15 = 11500
11500 - 1000 = 1500
1500 / 180 = 8.33
8.33 * 5 = 41.65 ap
41.65 / 14 = 2.975 dps

Are you saying trade only Icy Talons OR Glacier Rot for points in Toughness, or filling out Toughness for both?

At 5/5, Toughness would add 3,000 armor to a 10,000 armor base. 3000/180*5 ~= 80AP gained.

Granted, it's nothing to sneeze at, and it scales, but general theory is that five entire talent points spent for such a relatively minimal gain isn't worth it, even in a min max setting.

As for Icy Touch, between Glacier Rot and Black Ice it'll hit and crit for around as much damage as Blood Strike in pre-heroic gear. It won't approach Heart Strike and Obliterate, but it becomes a fairly strong attack, especially when it crits with the fact that it ignores armor and crits for 200% damage through class mechanics alone.

Originally Posted by Radogor

30% of current strength will give your something like 360 AP (it is for my current stats, blue 80 lvl gear, should be more in naxx gear). This is more than 110, obviously. The next thing I saw from Xyrm's WWS is that the buff is up for a lot of time (the proc rate seems about 35% - proced 146 times, and 140 times proced shaman' unleashed rage, which proc each melee crit, and melee crit is about 35%, according to same WWS).
What the disadvantage is that it is temporary buff, and basically it could proc exactly when you need to move, so you can not hit. These are my 2 cents.
What would be nice to see here is what the proc rate because I had no chance to verify it by myself yet.

Fallen Crusader is a 1ppm enchant as far as I've seen in this thread.

thevidon · 12/02/08, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Noraj

Fallen Crusader is a 1ppm enchant as far as I've seen in this thread.

Can someone please verify this? I seem to remember seeing my fallen crusader proc several times within a 10 second window....

Begotten · 12/02/08, 11:53 AM

delete

Noraj · 12/02/08, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by thevidon

Can someone please verify this? I seem to remember seeing my fallen crusader proc several times within a 10 second window....

I'll go test it myself once the servers are back up, because honestly now I don't know. For some reason I was of the impression that it definitely shared the common 1ppm with other enchants, but you're not the only person to have suggested differently, and what's more, it's possible there's not even an internal cooldown on it right now, though the Unholy Strength buff it grants won't stack (could have some dual wielding implications regarding approaching 100% uptime while maintaining decent healing).

NeuroMedivh · 12/02/08, 1:07 PM

Fallen Crusader is a 1ppm enchant, but it has no internal cooldown, thus it can proc multiple times in rapid succession if that's the way the RNG goes.

Noraj · 12/02/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by NeuroMedivh

Fallen Crusader is a 1ppm enchant, but it has no internal cooldown, thus it can proc multiple times in rapid succession if that's the way the RNG goes.

Therein lies the confusion people are seeing then in assuming that 1ppm automatically means it can only proc once every 60 seconds instead of statistically proccing once per minute.

Now for some different questions for the mix: Which attacks can it proc from? I'd assume every auto attack and strike, but not spells. Also, can it proc from BCB procs? That would lead into further discussion about any benefits of placing it on both weapons in a dual wielding build for greater uptime.

Also, I checked a couple of WWS reports and noted 4 procs over 3'44" for one deathknight, and 6 procs over 3'45" for another. Chances are that it procced more than that, but since WWS only records buff gains, and a proc while Unholy Strength was up wouldn't count towards the total, it's difficult to tell. Still, those two in particular had a 1.08ppm rate, and 1.7ppm respectively, meaning they had 27% and 40% uptime of the buff. (60 seconds / 244 seconds, 90 seconds / 244 seconds)

pfooti · 12/02/08, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Noraj

Therein lies the confusion people are seeing then in assuming that 1ppm automatically means it can only proc once every 60 seconds instead of statistically proccing once per minute.

My understanding of the PPM mechanic is that it's even more complex. The likelihood of any strike proccing the enchant is a function of the PPM and the weapon speed. But that chance doesn't change based on haste and specials. So if you use a special every GCD and are hasted, you'll see better uptime of the enchant, and this means a slow weapon will have a better chance to proc off of specials.

IOW: if you have a 1 PPM enchant, and you hit a target dummy with auto attack for N minutes, you should see N procs. If you do other stuff, you'll see more procs. That's why mongoose was so great on my rogue, it was up all the time, between the SnD buff for haste and all the sinister striking, I was attacking a lot faster than the base rate.

Fatedtolive · 12/02/08, 4:31 PM

I don't remember seeing this explained in any of the threads on these forums.

But, is there a "breaking point" where one runeforge is better than another in terms of Personal DPS, and Raid DPS?

Noraj · 12/02/08, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by pfooti

My understanding of the PPM mechanic is that it's even more complex. The likelihood of any strike proccing the enchant is a function of the PPM and the weapon speed. But that chance doesn't change based on haste and specials. So if you use a special every GCD and are hasted, you'll see better uptime of the enchant, and this means a slow weapon will have a better chance to proc off of specials.

IOW: if you have a 1 PPM enchant, and you hit a target dummy with auto attack for N minutes, you should see N procs. If you do other stuff, you'll see more procs. That's why mongoose was so great on my rogue, it was up all the time, between the SnD buff for haste and all the sinister striking, I was attacking a lot faster than the base rate.

Right...So for a 3.5 speed weapon, you should have (1/60)*(60/3.5)= 21% chance per autoattack to proc it.

Septus · 12/02/08, 6:31 PM

Which is then applied to special attacks right, since they're not factored into the PPM calc? So 21% per attack?

Bibdy · 12/02/08, 6:38 PM

PPM is the normalised representation of the proc rate. The chance to proc per melee swing is the thing that ends up being a function of your weapon's attack speed. For example, a 3.0 speed weapon will have double the chance of proccing than a 1.5 speed weapon, but then, the 1.5s speed weapon swings twice as often. So, in the long run, the number of procs in a given minute is equal.

The uptime of the buff, however, can depend on whether or not it overwrites itself. You could have a 3m fight, but the RNG gods screw you and you end up with 3 procs on your first 3 swings and no procs for the next 3 minutes. That's an extreme example, because of odds of that are pretty damn slim, but I hope you get the idea.

slacman69 · 12/02/08, 7:08 PM

I'm currently testing out a DW spec that allows me at lvl 75 to do a consistent 1200 dps in a 5 man instance.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

this is my current gear i may still be in tank gear when you click the link i dont know how long it will take to update armory.

The World of Warcraft Armory

typically my rotation for single target is

IT->HB->BS->BS->FS
IT->HB->BS->BS->FS->FS

my rotation for aoe is

IT->Pestilience->HB->BS->FS

im just looking to get some feedback on this spec. It seems to be great on single target and aoe dps seeing as the main ability for it is an aoe. Since I'm DW Killing Machine is almost always up making most of my frost strikes crit.

Bibdy · 12/02/08, 7:19 PM

Are you not using Plague Strike at all? It provides good damage, a buffer for your Blood Strikes and make use of that Unholy Rune you're letting rot.

In general I use PS and IT regardless of my build, but I'm open to ideas.