Is the Ebon Plaguebringer bug bad enough to warrant a respec? I used to be the only Unholy DK in our raids, but recently our Blood switched over and now we're both putting out Ebon Plaguebringer. WWS still has me in the top 5 DPS for most fights, but it annoys me to know that I could be better if it weren't for some stupid bug.
Do you reccomend sticking with two Unholy DKs, or is it bad enough to warrant me changing to a Frost, Blood, or DW build? If so, do any of the alternative builds stand out, or are they close enough to let personal preference decide? From what I understand, 2H Unholy and DW are the strongest right now, but I really prefer 2H builds to DW.
Right now we generally have 1-2 Frost DK tanks, so the Frost buffs are a given in our raids, but no Bloods, Enhance Shammies, or MM Hunters; so no one is putting out the Abomination's Might type buff. I could go that route, but if Blood 2H is significantly worse DPS I feel like I might be better off just sucking up the DPS loss from Ebon Bugbringer and staying Unholy 2H.
I know one of us could spec into Crypt Fever, but since they're removing that option in 3.0.8 I don't really consider that a viable long term solution.
When you have a multitude of talents that provide +x% to (stat), how is it calculated? Is it [percentage of initial stat], followed by [percentage of the previous total], etc..., or are the +% added and then applied ([+5%+2%+4%]=11% more of stat x)?
Is the Ebon Plaguebringer bug bad enough to warrant a respec? I used to be the only Unholy DK in our raids, but recently one of our Bloods switched over and now we're both putting out Ebon Plaguebringer. WWS still has me in the top 5 DPS for most fights, but it annoys me to know that I could be better if it weren't for some stupid bug.
Do you reccomend sticking with two Unholy DKs, or is it bad enough to warrant me changing to a Frost, Blood, or DW build? If so, do any of the alternative builds stand out, or are they close enough to let personal preference decide? From what I understand, 2H Unholy and DW are the strongest right now, but I really prefer 2H builds to DW.
Right now we generally have 1-2 Frost DK tanks, so the Frost buffs are a given in our raids, but no Bloods, Enhance Shammies, or MM Hunters; so no one is putting out the Abomination's Might type buff. I could go that route, but if Blood 2H is significantly worse DPS I feel like I might be better off just sucking up the DPS loss from Ebon Bugbringer and staying Unholy 2H.
I know one of us could spec into Crypt Fever, but since they're removing that option in 3.0.8 I don't really consider that a viable long term solution.
Blood 2H DPS is fine. Your trash dps is going to drop since your AoE isn't as good, but on bosses you might even see an improvement vs Unholy (I know I did). Also, that 10% AP buff is huge if no one is bringing it. Even if you see your own DPS stay the same or even drop slightly, you're contributing a huge buff to your melee. My own AP with Horn of Winter only is about 4300. It rises fast with raid buffs, and we have Fury warriors and Feral druids much higher than that. Abom's Might is adding an almost constant 400-500 AP to every one of your melees, vastly surpassing any damage you might lose from Unholy Blight or Gargoyle.
I've been raiding as Blood since early December using 51/13/7, and I routinely place top 5, and often top 3 in the meters. On fights that are friendly to my cooldown length I compete with our Fury warriors for the top spot (Gluth is very friendly to us, for example).
This issue has been bugging me for quite some time.
I recently picked up a [The Jawbone] as well as an [Inevitable Defeat] and for the life of me I cannot decide which one is better for PvE DPS. I've ran quite a few dummy tests, but the results were murky. Therefore, it'd be great if someone could break it down for me.
My question is this, is it better to gem for strength or expertise until capped?
I'm currently hit capped but have very low expertise. Would my dps benefit more by eliminating dodges or pushing AP higher?
Go to TheoryCraft page. Look at Equivalence points for your respective spec. Pick which one is higher.
In general, unless you are blood (and maybe even not then), Str > Expertise.
Glass Joe
Wuzzy
Gnome Death Knight
Kirin Tor
Deathknight 2H weapons
This issue has been bugging me for quite some time.
I recently picked up a [The Jawbone] as well as an [Inevitable Defeat] and for the life of me I cannot decide which one is better for PvE DPS. I've ran quite a few dummy tests, but the results were murky. Therefore, it'd be great if someone could break it down for me.
Is the Ebon Plaguebringer bug bad enough to warrant a respec? I used to be the only Unholy DK in our raids, but recently our Blood switched over and now we're both putting out Ebon Plaguebringer. WWS still has me in the top 5 DPS for most fights, but it annoys me to know that I could be better if it weren't for some stupid bug.
Do you reccomend sticking with two Unholy DKs, or is it bad enough to warrant me changing to a Frost, Blood, or DW build? If so, do any of the alternative builds stand out, or are they close enough to let personal preference decide? From what I understand, 2H Unholy and DW are the strongest right now, but I really prefer 2H builds to DW.
Right now we generally have 1-2 Frost DK tanks, so the Frost buffs are a given in our raids, but no Bloods, Enhance Shammies, or MM Hunters; so no one is putting out the Abomination's Might type buff. I could go that route, but if Blood 2H is significantly worse DPS I feel like I might be better off just sucking up the DPS loss from Ebon Bugbringer and staying Unholy 2H.
I know one of us could spec into Crypt Fever, but since they're removing that option in 3.0.8 I don't really consider that a viable long term solution.
If no one is providing +10% ap, switching to blood will be a *significant* damage boost to the raid. Blood's dps isn't all that far behind unholy, in any case.
The TheoryCraft thread hasn't been updated in some time, and it does not have any direct comparisons between weapon delay and top end damage versus any of the basic stats such as str/crit/exp, which is the core comparison between Jawbone and ID.
Although, if I managed to miss something on that thread please point me in the right direction!
This issue has been bugging me for quite some time.
I recently picked up a [The Jawbone] as well as an [Inevitable Defeat] and for the life of me I cannot decide which one is better for PvE DPS. I've ran quite a few dummy tests, but the results were murky. Therefore, it'd be great if someone could break it down for me.
Thanks in advance!
Originally Posted by Wuzzy-KirinTor
The TheoryCraft thread hasn't been updated in some time, and it does not have any direct comparisons between weapon delay and top end damage versus any of the basic stats such as str/crit/exp, which is the core comparison between Jawbone and ID.
Although, if I managed to miss something on that thread please point me in the right direction!
Hmm stat wise, if we break everything down into ratings such as listed in the table above, [Inevitable Defeat] has a 44.0139 advantage over [The Jawbone] in terms of stats. This is the equivalent of ~17.7 additional Str or ~7 higher base weapon DPS.
However, we run into a snag in terms of weapon delay, and therefore average weapon damage, when calculating strike damage. According to the A treatis on Weapon Speed, 0.3 weapon speed roughly equals to 1% overall damage raid buffed. Using that figure and multiply by 2/3 for the sake of expediency, we are looking at a 0.67% increase in damage for [The Jawbone]. Assuming 4400 DPS raid buffed, that comes out to be ~29.5 DPS.
So, how does one reduce it further so the two can be compared? >.>
Hmm stat wise, if we break everything down into ratings such as listed in the table above, [Inevitable Defeat] has a 44.0139 advantage over [The Jawbone] in terms of stats. This is the equivalent of ~17.7 additional Str or ~7 higher base weapon DPS.
However, we run into a snag in terms of weapon delay, and therefore average weapon damage, when calculating strike damage. According to the A treatis on Weapon Speed, 0.3 weapon speed roughly equals to 1% overall damage raid buffed. Using that figure and multiply by 2/3 for the sake of expediency, we are looking at a 0.67% increase in damage for [The Jawbone]. Assuming 4400 DPS raid buffed, that comes out to be ~29.5 DPS.
So, how does one reduce it further so the two can be compared? >.>
I am not seeing where you read that. From what I had read in the thread, BCB is normalized, ergo faster weapon is better (procs). Slower weapons are for PvP (burst).
Really, I do not think that there would be too much of a difference between the two, you would have to get a large amount of data off of Target Dummies to see any reliable difference.
Edit: If you were to test on a target dummy, I would reduce your rotation as much as possible (no RP dumping, no IT, just PS, BS, and SS [without glyph]). Hell, I would even just spam SS (no glyph) if it weren't for the necessity of including BCB (which is questionable, because it is proc based, and thus subject to RNG, making an accurate data collection poor).
I would try to limit the number of external variables as much as possible (no Runeforge, no external buffs).
I recently picked up [Cryptfiend's Bite] and I am currently using [Demise]. The top end dmg is hard to pass up for threat using [Cryptfiend's Bite] but I will losing hit if I do not use [Demise], and threat is already bad for DK's the way it is. What is a good way to determine which of these is more efficient to use?
Sorry if something like this was mentioned previously that I did not see.
I recently picked up [Cryptfiend's Bite] and I am currently using [Demise]. The top end and mitigation of [Cryptfiend's Bite] seem to be better but I will losing hit if I use [Demise], and threat is already bad for DK's the way it is. What is a good way to determine which of these is more efficient to use?
Sorry if something like this was mentioned previously that I did not see.
You would gain more threat by using the higher DPS weapon.
If you don't have problems with threat as is, no need to worry about it. If you are currently having threat issues, make sure you know about the bug that disables the % Threat Gains in Frost Presence after death. Just swap into blood and back again to clear it.
I have a fairly simple question which may not have an entirely straightforward answer.
Two potential raiding DKs. One specced for Unholy tanking, other for Unholy DPS. The DPS has as close to perfect attendance as can honestly be expected of a human being. The tank's attendance will not be as high as the DPSers. Both are good players who pull their weight in a raid.
When running heroics I had the DPS yield the 3rd disease to the tank as much as he could and I noticed his DPS fell anywhere from 500-800 from what it normally is in said heroics with a warrior tank. I do not want to create a situation where one of the better DPSers is losing a good chunk of his damage, and I also don't want to create a sitaution where the warlocks are without Ebon Plague and the raid is without Unholy Aura more than need be.
My gut feeling is that the raider with the better attendance should probably be the Unholy representative, but I also realize that gut feelings sometimes get people into bad situations.
How should I handle this until the Ebon Plaguebringer issue is resolved?
I have a fairly simple question which may not have an entirely straightforward answer.
Two potential raiding DKs. One specced for Unholy tanking, other for Unholy DPS. The DPS has as close to perfect attendance as can honestly be expected of a human being. The tank's attendance will not be as high as the DPSers. Both are good players who pull their weight in a raid.
When running heroics I had the DPS yield the 3rd disease to the tank as much as he could and I noticed his DPS fell anywhere from 500-800 from what it normally is in said heroics with a warrior tank. I do not want to create a situation where one of the better DPSers is losing a good chunk of his damage, and I also don't want to create a sitaution where the warlocks are without Ebon Plague and the raid is without Unholy Aura more than need be.
My gut feeling is that the raider with the better attendance should probably be the Unholy representative, but I also realize that gut feelings sometimes get people into bad situations.
How should I handle this until the Ebon Plaguebringer issue is resolved?
Personally, if the tank has no problems holding aggro, then let the DPS get it.
I am not fully certain on the mechanics of Ebon Plague getting overwritten though, because I have had EP up on all mobs in an AoE, and when switching to a different target in that AoE, my FF and BP are up, but not EP.
I have a fairly simple question which may not have an entirely straightforward answer.
...
How should I handle this until the Ebon Plaguebringer issue is resolved?
Honestly, if I was that worried about it (which I usually am), I would just voluntarily respec as needed. With dailies and stuff, respecs are much more affordable than before. If you played a druid or warrior before, you'll probably be used to respec'ing frequently.
While you go through the frequent respec'ing it's a good opportunity to try out various other specs and see for yourself which ones work for you.
I've done a search through DW Builds, DK Think Tank, and Simple Questions/Simple Answers threads and haven't found any mention on the usage of using Enchant Weapon - Berserking as an off-hand enchant instead of the more common Cinderglacier and Razorice Runeforges. Enchanted on the off-hand because Rune of the Fallen Crusader would be on the main-hand of course. The chance to proc. a +400 AP boost seems like it would be a very beneficial enchant to have, but the lack discussion has me wondering if I've made a glaring oversight. Seeing as how most DW specs. don't use Bladed Armor anyways, the reduction in armor is moot (though it seems that they're dropping the reduction from -25% armor down to -5% armor). Could somebody help me with deciding whether to get Beserker or just go with Razorice or Cinderglacier? Thanks.
Semi-napkin math, see Proc Mechanics for variable definitions and such.
1127 strength unbuffed from my armory means a Fallen Crusader proc is worth 676 AP.
Fallen Crusader uptime on the mainhand with 1.6 speed and 1 strike every 5 seconds (averaging out a rotation with 2x PS 2x BS in 20 seconds):
p = ppm * 1 / swings per min = 1.2 / (60 / 1.6) = 3.2%
d = 15
v = autoswings per sec + strikes per sec = (1/1.6) + (1/5) = 0.825
u = 1 - (1 - p)^dv = 33.12% uptime, times 676 is 223 average AP.
Add in an offhand also with 1.6 speed and fallen crusader:
v = (2/1.6) + (1/5) = 1.45
u = 50.7% uptime, times 676 is 343 average AP, minus 223 is 120 AP gain from the offhand enchant.
Berserking on the offhand instead:
p = 3.2% as above, since berserking is also 1.2 PPM
d = 15
v = 1/1.6 = 0.625
u = 26.3%, times 400 is 105 average AP.
If I didn't screw anything up, the conclusion is clearly that berserking is worthless to us. Unless your gear is really really bad, and you don't get Kings, and you never summon your ghoul (who benefits from your STR, but not your AP). And if your gear is that bad, spend all the money on buying new gear instead of on mats for Berserking.
With our normal 25 man raid group, I am the only DK in the raid. I typically spec unholy with some variaition of the standard 17/0/54 spec. We virtually never have an enhancement shaman or a Marksman Hunter, but we do always have a Boomkin. This means that, at least on single targets, there is always the 13% magic damage buff but there is never the +10% AP or the 20% haste.
I am considering a respec for the benefit of the raid (I'm typically on top of the meters as Unholy and while that is nice for the epeen, in general I don't care about that if the entire raid is doing considerably better) and am wondering if Improved Icy Talons or Abomination's Might would be the better overall buff for the raid. We run 8 melee types on average.
I was thinking possibly something like the 31/39+1 DW build to gain Talons and keep Unholy Aura.
Anyone have any suggestion on what would be the most beneficial in this situation and that wouldn't entirely gimp me in the process?
I'd say Abomination's Might is a bigger raidbuff than talons. Haste isn't considered a very good buff for most meeles while AP is the prime stat for most
I am considering a respec for the benefit of the raid (I'm typically on top of the meters as Unholy and while that is nice for the epeen, in general I don't care about that if the entire raid is doing considerably better) and am wondering if Improved Icy Talons or Abomination's Might would be the better overall buff for the raid. We run 8 melee types on average.
I was thinking possibly something like the 31/39+1 DW build to gain Talons and keep Unholy Aura.
Anyone have any suggestion on what would be the most beneficial in this situation and that wouldn't entirely gimp me in the process?
Definitely Abomination's Might. You have no regular shamans either? Any shaman can drop a wf totem for 16% haste..
I've looked everywhere on these forums for numbers on unholy aura; the dps gain numbers. I tracked down something in the compendium and I've found a formula(Enhancement Shaman, TTT) showing why movement speed is a DPS increase.
I understand the concept, really. However, that equation has too many undefined variables I can't figure out.
Has anyone revisited this for real number on unholy aura?
Obviously it is a DPS increase. I'm just trying to find some clearly stated numbers.
01/14/09, 2:09 PM
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