Prinsesa

Corpse Explosion - note that Corpse Explosion on your summoned Ghoul, and that you can summon a Ghoul even in a corpse-less situation via Corpse Dust, making it a non-zero DPS talent even in a single-target raid boss environment.

Gargoyle vs. Dancing Rune Weapon - as was noted in the Compendium, this is currently a wash. DRW has the advantage of being fire-and-forget, while the Gargoyle requires constant Runic Power production to get the full 1 minute duration. Apparently, the Gargoyle does better base damage, while DRW scales well with weapon upgrades, although it is unclear whether a point of inflection will be reached at any gear level.

Until we know more, if you want guaranteed damage, I would recommend DRW. Go with the Gargoyle once you're confident you can put out enough RP to maintain it.

Bloody Vengeance - this is a straight-up 9% DPS increase and is almost certainly superior to Might of Mograine and Abomination's Might's 2% STR increase. I do recommend finding room in your spec to get all three, though.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Theldon

I'm curious as to if anyone has any opinions on the best combination of professions to maximize DPS on a Death Knight? I'm strongly considering Jewelcrafting and Enchanting. JC for the trinkets and profession only gems and enchanting for the ring enchants. JC is also a great money maker later on in the game.

Other possible options are blacksmithing and engineering, but with the removal of the profession perk weapons blacksmithing doesn't seem as attractive.

Please don't factor in cost of levelling up the profession as they all will be expensive.

 

Spiero

Just a quick question about tanking stats, I've browsed this thread(I'm fairly certain I didn't miss it being discussed) and I've also read the other thread referenced here giving the DK breakdown.

If you wish to tank as a DK what are our stat weights going to be? The few set items I've had a chance to look at had none of the traditional tank stats IE: def, parry rating, dodge rating etc, they all seem to be more or less purely DPS sets, or is this right along with the theme of being a "caster tank" where dodge parry and defense really wouldn't matter?

 

Porta

I was talking to a friend about dual wielding tanking. He was saying that he heard that if you dual wield that you parry more often since you have two weapons to parry with. I'm not sure about that, so I wanted to verify here.

 

Janraea

Definitely not true.

 

Leaflock

Actually, the caster tank notion went out the window quite a while back. Our tanking set and most off-set items we'd go for do have the traditional stats: defense, stam, dodge, parry, and then assorted str, expertise, etc for threat. The DK is really an avoidance-type tank.

@Porta: The opposite is true, sort of. Dual-wielding will increase the number of attacks you make on the boss compared to a two-hander, so you have more opportunities to be parried, which resets the boss' swing timer.

 

misada

if money is no problem, i'd suggest inscription and JC. inscription can make it's own shoulder enchants (have also herd rumors of head ones but no proof as of yet), also eliminating your need to grind aldor/scryer rep. JC get lovely gems called "prismatic gems", they match any color slot, are limited to 3 equipped at any one time, but give much higher stats then the wotlk epic boe ones, making it not only easier to meet socket bonuses, but providing a much higher overall stat boost. some good examples are:

tank shoulder enchant
trinket
tanking gem 1
tanking gem 2

those are ones i had bookmarked, but comparable items can be assumed for dps, believe the shoulder dps is 41 ap and 15 crit, and i've seen a 40ish ap gem, as well as a 27 str gem.


a question i had, any thoughts on thisbuild for tanking? was assuming the extra damage from necrosis and BCB would be a nice extra boost of threat, without taking any of your runes or RP.

also, has anyone done any number crunching on the duel wield itemization? do we want fast offhand and slow mainhand, or two slow weapons, maybe even two fast weapons?

 

Talgog

There is no reason at all for a Death Knight to use fast weapons. None. The "smoothing" logic that was true to some extent for Fury warriors does not apply; runic power is driven by burning abilities and talents, not hitting the mob. On top of this, a death knight puts a warrior to shame in terms of the number of "weapon damage" attacks they drop. Using fast weapons only reduces the damage of these; none of them function like Bloodthirst.

Rune Strike functions somewhat like a Heroic Strike, but it has such a huge weapon damage multiplier that I can't see any argument at all for trading down weapon damage for a slightly faster "next melee."

Fast DK weapons for DPS fall in the same catagory as warriors using DW Mortal Strike (ignoring the Deep Wounds/Sudden Death abuse). There's nothing stopping you from doing it, but it is just flat-out ineffective compared to the alternatives because it isn't what the abilities are designed for.

DW tanking, on the other hand, is just dumb and dangerous, as well as ineffective. You're not only being sub optimal at this point. You are dramatically increasing the chances you could die, in addition to all the problems of DW'ing against a boss mob without wearing ideal DPS gear.

 

Enova

More to the point, you have two weapons that the target can parry against (unless you're expertise capped). And you do not want that to happen.
Also, there's no possible way to hit cap your dual wielding white attacks without gimping tanking stats. Basically, you'd be losing threat every time you miss. Short story is, Dual Wield tanking is not a good idea.

 

Janraea

Do some research next time. BCB procs the mainhand weapon off of the offhand weapon (like rogue sword spec), and Killing Machine also benefits from a faster offhand. Slow/Fast is definitely the best combination for dual-wielding.

I'm also pretty confident that the strikes are using normalized attack power - though slower ones do better strike damage, it's not a huge difference.

 

Yotka

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Using a Dual Wield trispec of this sort (and I've done some rather extensive testing it does far more dps than a 15/37/19 trispec just with the extra crit damage on howling blast alone).

I was wondering what I ought to use when my Deathrunes where up. I tried different things and settled for Icy touch hoping for it to proc rime allowing me to use obliterate.

If someone has a couple ideas... feel free to help.

Each step must carry the mark of one's blood - No one can hold a candle to me
Roudolf Khametovitch Nouriev
Vôtre score de connard prétentieux est très exactement de 95

 

Direheart

Which runes would work best? I am currently using Razorice on MH, considering that my heaviest attacks (HB and OB) are Frost-based, and Cinderglacier on OH since it is what generates procs. If anyone sees a flaw with this logic and has a suggestion, I'd appreciate it.

 

faight

What is the optimal Unholy AoE rotation as far as both solo grinding and instancing (non-tanking) are concerned? I'm well aware of the single target rotation, but I was curious as to what I should be doing in AoE situations, especially considering CC is pretty much nonexistent in 5mans these days.

Right now soloing after gathering up mobs I'm doing:
DND > IT > PS > Pest > UB if I have the RP, else wait on runes > BB > DS if I need healing, else CE if there is a body and I know it will kill something to activate the glyph. I realize CE kind of sucks, but I love the skill. Also occasionally I'll CE my pet during this AoEing if I'm killing humanoids, and since I'm "experimenting" I picked up Night of the Dead anyways so my Raise Dead is almost always off cooldown anyways.

Occasionally I toss in Icebound Fort after Pestilence if I feel I'm taking too much damage; I generally don't bother refreshing Bone Shield since it'll die so fast (unless Bone Shield has a "cooldown" between losing charges that I'm unaware of, much like Lighting Shield/etc, still giving you the -40% damage in the meantime).

As far as instancing I assume it'll be the normal rotation except with Pestilence and BB instead of two Blood Strikes; this would cause you to only get one Death Rune though. Also it's obvious that DND is much better DPS than BB, but it's high threat, however doing either Pestilence or DND removes the option of doing Scourge Strikes.

I guess I'm just wondering if there is a point where BB AoE will outweigh single target BS, or a magical number of mobs I need to make DND worth more than all the Scourge Strikes I'll miss out on, and whether using DND is a bad idea because of threat.

 

Pyros

For the solo rotation, I usually apply diseases first then D&D, so it benefits from ebon plaguebringer. Other than that, it varies between pulls, mobs and stuff like that. How you finish the mobs after you pestilenced/D&D/UB isn't really important.

For raiding/intancing, I believe the math in the other thread showed that Blood Boil overtakes Blood Strike starting at 2targets with outbreak(might have been 3 but I'm pretty sure it was the lowest possible), and D&D is always better than anything else if there's more than one target too. Threat shouldn't be an issue if you have a good tank and subversion.

 

Talgog

This has never been true for instant attacks. "Weapon damage" attacks still uses the damage range of your weapon (base weapon damage) even after weapon speed normalization. At a given DPS, there is every reason to use the slowest brick you can find for something that says "weapon damage +X" or "% of weapon damage".

The formula is, and has always been since 1.8:

normalized_damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14)

This is even more important for a death knight than a MS warrior, as the death knight uses far more instant attacks than any MS warrior could dream of absent Unrelenting Assault against something he's tanking with his face. They also have a weapon-damage dependent "Heroic OverRevenge" as Blizzard called Rune Strike.

I don't know what you're expecting in terms of "huge difference." At comporable DPS and sanely designed weapons, it's not going to be immediately apparent to the naked eye. That doesn't mean leaking damage on every one of your instant attacks isn't suboptimal or doesn't add up.

 

CKaz

Quick question on hit vs avoidance -
If I can get 1% hit vs 2% dodge, I have to imagine the latter is worth more in the long [tanking] run.
My question is, how much more? It might still be too early, but looking for thoughts on DK tank min/maxing.

 

dreadai

Dodge and Parry are your tanking bread and butter. I'd suggest given a choice, that going for Dodge would be better than your 1% hit. Especially if it is for an item that you will keep for a while.

 

Jasin

What experiences are you guys having with AoE tanking in instances? I ran UK and the Nexus last night, and I tried different things in response to my group pulling (it's worth mentioning that my group had T5-T6 geared DPS). Granted, this wasn't a big deal, and we only ever had a couple aggro deaths, but there's always room for improvement. Also, I'm specced for leveling, and I may gain some utility once I hit 80 and respec.

Rotation 1:
PS-IT-Pest-BB-SS
SS-BB-BB-SS

This one worked reasonably well, but the first mob often dies before the second half of the rotation where I'll get a good threat lead. I would lose the second target shortly after the first target died about 30-40% of the time. I can DC to get him back though.

Rotation 2:
Pull with DG (usually a caster)
DND-PS-IT-Pest
BB-SS-SS-BB

I had much better luck with this one. Given the rate at which they die, I tended to hold them much better.

Anyone using something different or see room for improvement? I realize that 5-mans are hardly difficult, but I haven't tanked since 60 (on a warrior), so I'm trying to build good tanking habits.

 

Janraea

You're misinterpreting me. I agree that that's how the strikes work. I said that it wouldn't be a huge difference because using a higher weapon dps is generally more important than using a slower weapon for a trispec DW. Of course the weapon speed makes a difference, and I can't actually quantify it without knowing every stat for the player in question, but going up a tier of weapon is worth more than keeping a slow one in your hand. I make this point because it is not the case for Enhancement shamans, who prefer a slow *green* weapon to a fast t5 epic.

In a nutshell, weapon speed affects our damage, but not our scaling.

 

heffroncm

It seems to me that Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting offer the largest gains. The extra gem slots in your Gloves and Boots, along with the super gems and unique-equipped BoP gems, seem to outweigh what any other profession has to offer. The bonuses from LW, Enchanting, Alchemy, and Inscription are all nice, but in terms of total stat gain you get the most from Blacksmithing and Jewelcrafting.

Convient, in a sense, in that you can work one up with Mining, then Mine up the thousands of Ore needed to grind the other from 1 to 425ish or whatever skill you get the bonuses at.

 

Jasin

I agree. I would add that this combination is also the most versatile. Moreso than the other trade skills, this combination allows you to mix/max at a granular level (per socket) over time. The others (e.g. LW-stam, Mining-HP) are nice bonuses, but you can't swap them for different stats if those are the best weighted stats for you in a particular snapshot of gear.

Personally, I went with Mining/BS to get the versatility of extra sockets while retaining a gathering skill. Given that I have only one other epic flying mounted character (herbalist), mining allows me to gather more resources for both crafting and selling within my (all too) finite playing time.

 

Mr. Pokeylope

What's a good way of keeping track of one's diseases? Ideally, I'd like a set of timer bars showing only my diseases on my current target. I've tried a couple different things: I've got an EBB bar group set to show only DK diseases on my target, but it shows diseases from other DKs as well; I've also tried to set up a separate DoTimer anchor to show diseases I cast on my target, but it doesn't handle switching targets very well. Any suggestions?

 

Keline

[Reaping]

What is the Death Rune and what does it do?

 

Xelopheris

@Keline: Death Runes are basically wildcard runes -- they can be used in place of any type of rune for their next use.

As an example, a typical unholy rotation is:

Icy Touch, Plague Strike, Blood Strike, Blood Strike, Scourge Strike
Scourge Strike, Scourge Strike, Scourge Strike.

The two blood strikes refreshed into Death Runes via reaping, and could be used as a Frost and Unholy rune for the extra Scourge Strike.

After death runes are used, they change back into their original rune type.

 

Janraea

The mod called 'NeedToKnow' is very clean, and can do exactly what you want.