Mathematically, Strength is a better stat. Hit and Expertise are "nicer" stats, in that they make your rotation much more predictable/etc., meaning you can pay a little less attention to your rotation and a little more attention to staying out of the fire.
Mathematically, Strength is a better stat. Hit and Expertise are "nicer" stats, in that they make your rotation much more predictable/etc., meaning you can pay a little less attention to your rotation and a little more attention to staying out of the fire.
Personally, I'll always go with what's better and also pay attention to the fire. This is especially true now that missed strikes from death runes don't repop as non-death runes anymore, before that change I was much more inclined to cap hit/exp first.
However, there are plenty of strong DKs (Zurm comes to mind) who prefer knowing their attacks are going to land when they want them to land. It's a valid personal preference, but to say it's universal is a pretty huge overstatement.
I remember reading that most PvP DKs put a small amount of Spell Penetration on their PvP gear.
Is this right?
If so, what is the magic number to gem for?
Its a good idea to use some spell pen. Your spells can be resisted like Mind Freeze and Strangulate, etc. and you can get partial resists of Scourge strike and diseases.
Some Classes that can have spell resistances, Priests (just Shadow), Paladins (can be 130 shadow or frost), Druid (75 to all), Frost DKs (80 to all plus can get a stacking resistance), in addition there is a 20 SR cloak enchant.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Its a good idea to use some spell pen. Your spells can be resisted like Mind Freeze and Strangulate, etc. and you can get partial resists of Scourge strike and diseases.
Some Classes that can have spell resistances, Priests (just Shadow), Paladins (can be 130 shadow or frost), Druid (75 to all), Frost DKs (80 to all plus can get a stacking resistance), in addition there is a 20 SR cloak enchant.
So I should aim for 130? Or is that gimping myself too much?
Mathematically, Strength is a better stat. Hit and Expertise are "nicer" stats, in that they make your rotation much more predictable/etc., meaning you can pay a little less attention to your rotation and a little more attention to staying out of the fire.
Except for the fact this started with a post me and darkside answered, and the post was talking about Unholy DPS. And unholy dps for single target has a rotation which is for most of the time just a SS spam. So misses/dodges/parries really means nothing for the rotation. You can't screw it. The only case when such rotation is a bit sensible to such events is when you need to reapply diseases manually.
That's why I asked for darkside to explain me his reasons, since all I could imagine for him to give his answer was to rise the aoe dps on trahses too (I'm under the assumption the values in TTT refear to single target dps only and aren't correct for aoe too). But unholy aoe dps is just throught spells, so only hit is needed (and much more than the melee normal anyway).
So I ended up with partial explaination for hit and no reason at all for expertise.
Who is/are the person(s) I should contact through PM's that are willing to look over my DK Tank outfit and are able to provide me with some decent recommendations what to look for in upgrades from Hc's etc so I could hold my own as off-tank / DPS in Naxx10 OS10 and such.
Personally, I'll always go with what's better and also pay attention to the fire. This is especially true now that missed strikes from death runes don't repop as non-death runes anymore, before that change I was much more inclined to cap hit/exp first.
However, there are plenty of strong DKs (Zurm comes to mind) who prefer knowing their attacks are going to land when they want them to land. It's a valid personal preference, but to say it's universal is a pretty huge overstatement.
Perhaps "pretty universally accepted" was a poor choice of wording...despite the fact that I worded it that way to account for those who simply choose Str over everything else. My main point was that I'd wager most do indeed prefer to know their attacks will land, especially since there's only 1 Patchwerk.
Who is/are the person(s) I should contact through PM's that are willing to look over my DK Tank outfit and are able to provide me with some decent recommendations what to look for in upgrades from Hc's etc so I could hold my own as off-tank / DPS in Naxx10 OS10 and such.
I'm fairly certain that the purpose of this thread is to give answers to simple questions that haven't been asked 100 times. It is not a meant to be a substitute for self help and a basic level of effort on your part. There are numerous threads, such as here and here in this very forum that deal with DK tank gearing. Not to mention, try using Rawr, and look for possible upgrades.
Simply PM'ing someone and asking them to tell you how to gear is no excuse for lack of effort on your part.
What spec should I go for if I'm just starting out as an 80 DK tank? Think gear in the Tempered Saronite stuff region and other such quality gear to start off with. I know the true and often said "All specs of DK can tank" sentence, but I admit I'm really trying to be the best and fastest DK tank I can be. Right now I'm levelling in a Blood spec that includes some tanking talents and also has 3/3 Morbidity, but it almost seems too little to really go through stuff fast at times. I know it seems silly but the 4-5 seconds I often have to wait for DnD to come off CD after the previous pack so I can pull the next make me crazy. I wonder if this will change in any way as once I get to 80? I'm guessing not, which makes me lean towards Frost, but I'm going to raid tank as Blood.. Anyway, thanks for any eventual opinions/answers.
Tanking aoe as blood probably implies a lot of target swapping (so that HS hits 2 different targets everytime) since you have only 1 really strong aoe ability (d&d).
I always tanked as frost at 80. While I was Unholy while levelling. I can tell the second one is way easier to handle, but the first one is more fun, for me at least (plus it used to require more skill when there was still a cd on pestilence).
Anyway, I suggest frost, since everywhere everything is only aoe, aoe, aoe.
This is true in heroics and in raids, as of now.
For a frost spec I highly suggest the one I'm currently using (I am not going to respec, so you can be sure what you see is what I suggest you). You sacrifice 2% dodge but you increase your dps/tps AND get a nice +6% stam which you can combine with garg on weapon for a neat increase of stam, which is kind of all the pugs want from a tank (so you can find group to gear up more easyly).
Point is that epidemic is nice only for aoe, where you can throw in 1 more blood boil instead of needing to pestilence.
For single target rotation you are going to reapply your disease (notice the lack of the final "s") at every rotation.
Plus if you are frost all you need to cast is HB in order to get nice aoe dps, morbidity isn't needed.
AoE rotation is pretty standard: "pre d&d" IT PS Pestilence, than HB BB etc
Single target works best with 1 disease rotation. But you need 1 death rune in the opening, so you may need to use your Blood Tap if you haven't one from the last fight.
IT OB OB BS "Rime + Rune dump"
Rince and repeat.
Depending on your gear you may have better results with HB, but due to the limited amount of hit we have (we cap for the 8% melee miss), it's easy that the chance to miss of spells (HB) and the +9% crit chance for OB make s it so it's better, dps/tps wise, to use OB on bosses.
I use HB in place of the first OB on everything but bosses since that's what works for my gear. At the beginning probably you should use OB in every circumstance.
EDIT:
Glyph wise I use Obliterate, Rune Strike and Icy Touch. The latter being a must.
That's kind of an aggressive setup, but as of now I can sacrifice Glyph of UA without a problem.
Glyph of IF + UA + IT was what I used, but you'll find out glyph of IF isn't really vital (you just need to be careful with your rp usage). UA is nice. I swapped it out since I couldn't decide what was better between RS and OB glyphs, and eventually I found I'm ok with my current glyph configuration.
P.S.
Since tps isn't going to be a problem, you can go for Rune tap + imp rune tap + glyph of rune tap if you don't trust the average pug healer, at the Dark Conviction (aka crit), but tps has never been a problem for me untill now so you'll manage. The only ones that beat me tps wise are pally tanks.
My death knight has been leveling as unholy and I'm getting close to 80. Over in the unholy DPS thread I notice the cookie cutter doesn't include outbreak and desecration in the talent build and the glyphs are ghoul; icy touch and scourge strike. Is there an increase to be had by dropping blood-caked blade and dirge and taking Outbreak and Desecration?
My reasoning is that with the PS glyph and the talent we can get a large boost to PS damage and since descration is a snare we'd get another 20% on BS. That seems like a lot to me; but cookie cutters are usually cookie cutters for a reason!
Last edited by adolchristin : 02/19/09 at 5:13 PM.
My death knight has been leveling as unholy and I'm getting close to 80. Over in the unholy DPS thread I notice the cookie cutter doesn't include outbreak and desecration in the talent build and the glyphs are ghoul; icy touch and scourge strike. Is there an increase to be had by dropping blood-caked blade and picking up and dirge and taking Pestilence and Desecration?
My reasoning is that with the PS glyph and the talent we can get a large boost to PS damage and since descration is a snare we'd get another 20% on BS. That seems like a lot to me; but cookie cutters are usually cookie cutters for a reason!
By Pestilence, do you mean the Outbreak talent?
The 2h unholy DPS builds I've seen don't take plague strike-based talents because the combination of extended durations on diseases and the scourge strike glyph causes you to not use plague strike very often. A typical 2h unholy rotation will go something like PS->IT->BS->BS->SS in the first 10 seconds, followed by three straight scourge strikes in the second 10, giving you four chances for the scourge strike glyph to refresh your disease rotation, in which case you carry on using scourge strike instead of plague strike and icy touch. Four 25% chances = just under 70% chance that one of them will happen, so it's very easy to go 30 seconds between uses of plague strike. Given all that, it's not worth putting talent points into boosting plague strike or talents that fire when you use plague strike.
A fair number of the dual wield specs out there do include Outbreak and/or Desecration, because they don't use scourge strike in their rotations, and therefore are plague striking enough for the talents to be worthwhile.
Woops; yes indeed. I think I could have been more clear; I am wondering if taking Outbreak and Desecration and the PS and BS glyphs would be a DPS increase over the SS strike glyph. Glyphs would be PS, BS and Ghoul.
PS Would get 45% from Outbreak and 20% from the glyph if you IT first in your rotation and BS would get 20% from the glyph since desecration works as a snare. Are all of these dps gains beaten by another Scourge Strike if you get a SS glyph proc?
Are all of these dps gains beaten by another Scourge Strike if you get a SS glyph proc?
Yes, until PS is changed to do more weapon damage, SS glyph will be the highest dps gain for sustained dps. I would assume for soloing PS glyph may be better, but soloing is not the reason for these boards.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Just switched from DPS to tanking and im wondering for tanking in Naxx10/25 should i use a specific rotation for threat and such or should i just use skills necessary to the time?
Just switched from DPS to tanking and im wondering for tanking in Naxx10/25 should i use a specific rotation for threat and such or should i just use skills necessary to the time?
Another quick question; which is worth more personal dps 2/2 Dirge or 2/2 Unholy Aura. I know Unholy Aura is invaluable to a raid but how much personal DPS can we estimate it's worth?
Another quick question; which is worth more personal dps 2/2 Dirge or 2/2 Unholy Aura. I know Unholy Aura is invaluable to a raid but how much personal DPS can we estimate it's worth?
Any decent PvE spec will pick up both Unholy Aura and Dirge if you're that deep in the tree. PvP specs often favor Unholy Aura.
We can't estimate how much personal DPS it's worth because it varies heavily depending on the fight and how much running you have to do. For example, on Patchwerk it's worth almost 0, but on Sarth it's worth a lot more. Even on the latter it will still vary based on your guild's strat and how unlucky you get on void zones and lava waves.
The only specific math I recall seeing on run speed is from the enhancement shaman TTT, and that came to the conclusion that run speed boot enchants were better than straight-dps boot enchants if you spent roughly 4 seconds moving between adds, running to the boss, etc., in a 5 minute fight, which is often enough that you should always go for run speed. Given that most fights that matter require and will probably continue to require a lot of movement for both survival and to get back on dps, that suggests that if you had to choose between the two, Unholy Aura will generally provide more benefit.
It's probably been posted, but there's A LOT of information to sift though.
How exactly is Killing Machine currently working? I know it's based off of PPM, but is DWing affecting it, is weapon speed, is haste? I'd appreciate it if someone who actually knew for a fact and not someone who "thinks" they "might" know how it works responded. Thanks in advance.
KM is 5 PPM (one per talent point) on mainhand white swings only. What that means is with no haste but hit/expertise capped, it will proc five times per minute on average. Base weapon speed does not affect the expected number of procs. Offhand swings do not have a chance to proc KM. Haste will increase the number of procs you get.
Suppose I am in a position where I HAVE to provide Abomination's Might. Would I be better off going for a full on Blood build? This is mainly for 10mans, so I can't just rely on other tanks to do all the AoE tanking, which means I want to either get Howling Blast or 3/3 Morbidity. Right now I am considering this mess:
Hi guys, i have problem with my gear . I think i have pretty good gear ,but my dps wont go past 5500 on patch. I think my problem is that i dont have greatness. Would greatness rly can do 500-1000dps difference ? And what stat i have to stack now ? Exp ? Armor p?
Suppose I am in a position where I HAVE to provide Abomination's Might. Would I be better off going for a full on Blood build? This is mainly for 10mans, so I can't just rely on other tanks to do all the AoE tanking, which means I want to either get Howling Blast or 3/3 Morbidity. Right now I am considering this mess:
I would go with this build:50/14/7
The reason being is that you want WotN and Epidemic. If you have a Paladin tank have him deal with AE pulls like the packs of small spiders (name?) but when its a 3-4 mob pull he will probably AE when you can just focus on generating threat on 1-2 targets. If you have a Warrior then its pretty much going to be both of you going for AE threat, for example you can IT>PS>Pest>Pest and then use Obliterate on targets someone has high threat on. You can also take Death Rune Mastery over Improved Rune Tap and then preAE pulls set it up to where you have 2 B and 4 D runes so that you can just Pest spam on the next pull. If you happen to have a bear then have him/her swipe spam the large spider groups.
The point is, you can have the other tank do most of the AE tanking and on groups of 2-4 mobs just pick up the 1-2 mobs the other tank doesn't, you could mark Skull and Star for the MT and then Cross and Square for you. This makes it easier for some tanks then to just run in and AE a group of mobs without knowing who will get the most threat, this also makes it easier for the healers to know who may be taking more damage or that they should heal both tanks and instead of waiting to see who gets the most threat on the mobs.
If someone says "Hey just drop DnD." well tell them you went a deep blood spec that doesn't have Improved DnD so its on a 30 second CD and you don't want to use it just in case the group accidentally pulls an extra pack or something of that nature.
02/18/09, 8:21 PM
Similar Threads
