Death Knight: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 51

Janraea · 01/12/09, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Fireflash38

I have read about this yet I do not fully understand the reasoning behind not using a Rime Proc.
Can you please explain?

A rime proc-using HB only gives 5 RP (if you have Chill, none if you don't). While it is technically better dps to use the rime proc and cast an IT afterward before continuing with the previous rotation/priorities, it's not a big gain, and proc-watching uses a lot of attention. If the skills are going to be cast in the same order anyway, cancelling the proc gets you an extra 15 RP.

Originally Posted by Ritualist

I have a question reguarding the Darkmoon Card: Greatness. I only need one more card to complete my deck and before I made the commitment to equip instead of selling I wanted to make sure about the item itself in reference to DKs. Does the proc effect stack with all talents involving +%Str (Ravenous Dead, VoTW, SoD, etc) and/or Rune of the Fallen Crusader?

I believe so. Certainly it is the best available trinket for a DK either way. It is, on the other hand, worth around 20,000 gold on any server with a few dedicated guilds.

Taidaisher · 01/12/09, 2:51 PM

I'm a lvl 76 unholy DK. This is my currentSPEC. From what I've been reading, I should be using a rotation of

IT - PS - BS - BS - SS - runedump (HoW)
SS - SS - SS - runedump (D&D or UB)
SS - BS - BS - SS - runedump (D&D or UB)

I had been using a rotation of

IT - PS - BS - SS - DS

I have tried to change to the rotation I posted above, but run into GCD issues. Is anyone else running into this issue? What do you do to get around the GCDs?

EwokChilli · 01/12/09, 3:12 PM

Does the static 5% haste from ImpIcyTalons stack with the 20% haste from our own IcyTalons??

Fatedtolive · 01/12/09, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by EwokChilli

Does the static 5% haste from ImpIcyTalons stack with the 20% haste from our own IcyTalons??

It should, considering they are two separate sources of haste.

And question:
The "ideal" DPS rotation for Frost DKs is:
IT-BS-OB-OB-FS Repeat

But the tanking rotation everyone uses is(I think):
IT-PS-BS-BS-OB-FS
IT-PS-OB-OB

Am I wrong in using the DPS rotation while tanking, under the mindset that more dps = more threat. On top of one less parryable ability per rotation?

joypunk · 01/12/09, 4:48 PM

In a 20/51 DW build, what rotation would I be looking at?

The best answer I could find was a post-patch speculation post by kurokaze: Dual Wield Builds - Post #780

His spreadsheet showed an optimal rotation of PS IT BS IT DC IT DC / PS IT BS DC IT DC IT DC.

However, this only uses 5 runes per rotation (only one blood rune) among other things.

Janraea · 01/12/09, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by joypunk

In a 20/51 DW build, what rotation would I be looking at?
The best answer I could find was a post-patch speculation post by kurokaze: Dual Wield Builds - Post #780
His spreadsheet showed an optimal rotation of PS IT BS IT DC IT DC / PS IT BS DC IT DC IT DC.
However, this only uses 5 runes per rotation (only one blood rune) among other things.

If you must use a rotation, the best one I can think of is PS,IT,PS,IT,DC,IT,BS - PS,IT,DC,IT,DC,BS,IT, until 3.0.8. If you mean to ask about post-3.0.8, then PS,IT,UB,IT,DC,IT,BS - PS,IT,DC,IT,DC,IT,BS.

Using the priority system will serve you better though.

joypunk · 01/12/09, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Janraea

If you must use a rotation, the best one I can think of is PS,IT,PS,IT,DC,IT,BS - PS,IT,DC,IT,DC,BS,IT, until 3.0.8. If you mean to ask about post-3.0.8, then PS,IT,UB,IT,DC,IT,BS - PS,IT,DC,IT,DC,IT,BS.

Using the priority system will serve you better though.

I wasn't sure if there was a priority system considering the bulk of your rune uses goes to Icy Touch... a rotation seemed more logical in this case. I am more concerned with post-3.0.8 and would much rather have a priority system than a rotation.

What would the priority system be? From the looks of the rotation you posted (post-3.0.8) each line would start with PS IT followed by using BS to convert Death Runes, dumping RP to keep UB up, using Icy Touch, and then using Death Coil when your next rune use would put you over the RP cap.

Janraea · 01/12/09, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by joypunk

I wasn't sure if there was a priority system considering the bulk of your rune uses goes to Icy Touch... a rotation seemed more logical in this case. I am more concerned with post-3.0.8 and would much rather have a priority system than a rotation.

What would the priority system be? From the looks of the rotation you posted (post-3.0.8) each line would start with PS IT followed by using BS to convert Death Runes, dumping RP to keep UB up, using Icy Touch, and then using Death Coil when your next rune use would put you over the RP cap.

A priority system for 20/51 goes like: PS (no bp) > IT (KM up, or 2+ frost runes available)> UP (if it's down) > BS > DC > IT (no KM and only one frost rune active) > PS
Note that that's not strict - you'll need to adapt it for the period before and after you summon a gargoyle, and other cooldowns. If you don't want to spare the attention to watch KM procs, just combine the two IT priorities and stick it where the (KM up) IT is at now.

kurokaze · 01/12/09, 6:50 PM

That wasn't an 'optimal' rotation, it was the only one I tried. I got it off some post in the DW thread way back probably by Gothya. It looked very good so I didn't mess around with it.

It skips an unholy rune, not a blood rune; like the Antiseptic 2H Frost rotation, it assumes one death rune active per rotation segment from either a Blood Tap before the pull or from replacing an IT with a BS in the very first rotation.

I've definitely soured on the whole rotation idea though. I never use one in practice anyway. I've started recoding my tool to use priority systems instead, but the complexity of doing so (and doing it well) necessitated a complete restart and switch to C++, which adds considerable interface design overhead time. So don't expect anything more from me on that front for at least another week.

Crackensan · 01/13/09, 10:10 AM

At what gear level does Blood start to catch up to the other specs in terms of DPS?

I ask this because 100% of the DPS Death Knights in my guild are Unholy. Is it weapon, or overall gear level, or some odd fusion of both those factors? (The third hidden factor is not being stupid, and a faceroller, but let's assume that's correct).

I wanna start moving back into Blood, but Unholy is quite ridiculous with it's damage out, since most of it's damage is not mitigated by high armoured bosses.

Janraea · 01/13/09, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Crackensan

At what gear level does Blood start to catch up to the other specs in terms of DPS?

I ask this because 100% of the DPS Death Knights in my guild are Unholy. Is it weapon, or overall gear level, or some odd fusion of both those factors? (The third hidden factor is not being stupid, and a faceroller, but let's assume that's correct).

I wanna start moving back into Blood, but Unholy is quite ridiculous with it's damage out, since most of it's damage is not mitigated by high armoured bosses.

Never does. I hope it gets a buff someday, because it's pretty fun to play. Right now the only reason to use blood is if you have no marksmen or enhancement shamans.

DaveyD1200 · 01/13/09, 11:38 AM

What is the expertise 'cap' for 2H and for DW?

I know it was proven recently that the hit 'cap' is now 8% but I havent been able to find any information on expertise.

Pretoriaan · 01/13/09, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Janraea

Never does. I hope it gets a buff someday, because it's pretty fun to play. Right now the only reason to use blood is if you have no marksmen or enhancement shamans.

I have been playing DK for a while now, its my alt so havnt gear him up to perfect standard yet but still have 3.1k ap, 30% crit, hit capped and so on.
I also have the 2set bonus from tier 7 for the extra crit.

I cant really find any good guide or decide what specc to go for... i am aiming for playing my DK as a pure dps class. Cant decide what specc to use, been 51/13/7 and unholy dps specced also. As far i see that Blood does about the same but bit more dps on a single target and unholy totally owns in aoe dmg and still very good dps on single target.

Well i can go on and on about this but the question is, what specc is best suited for DPS in 10man/25man raid bosses?

Janraea · 01/13/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Pretoriaan

I have been playing DK for a while now, its my alt so havnt gear him up to perfect standard yet but still have 3.1k ap, 30% crit, hit capped and so on.
I also have the 2set bonus from tier 7 for the extra crit.

I cant really find any good guide or decide what specc to go for... i am aiming for playing my DK as a pure dps class. Cant decide what specc to use, been 51/13/7 and unholy dps specced also. As far i see that Blood does about the same but bit more dps on a single target and unholy totally owns in aoe dmg and still very good dps on single target.

Well i can go on and on about this but the question is, what specc is best suited for DPS in 10man/25man raid bosses?

At the moment, 31/39+1 dual wield. We don't know about after the patch, but it doesn't look like it'll take too big a hit then either. If you must stick with a two-hander, deep unholy is on top, followed by deep blood. Post-patch, I suspect 2h Frost will catch up a bit.

Pretoriaan · 01/13/09, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Janraea

At the moment, 31/39+1 dual wield. We don't know about after the patch, but it doesn't look like it'll take too big a hit then either. If you must stick with a two-hander, deep unholy is on top, followed by deep blood. Post-patch, I suspect 2h Frost will catch up a bit.

3 questions about that:

1: Could you possible link that specc?

2: And what kind of rotation is best to use with DW?

3: Is it best to use classic fury wepon speed like slow main hand and fast off hand?