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Old 05/14/09, 1:47 PM   #1576
 Darkside
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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Originally Posted by coca View Post
Thanks for the quick response. I have the sigil from XT maybe that is why i'm seeing larger numbers from FS. Other questions I have is should I glyph for HB or go for IT? Or maybe that is dependent on whether I play 1 disease or 2. I'll glyph for IT and go for 2 diseases. Should I HB whenever Rime procs? That does cost me a GCD so I was wondering if it is worth it. As it is now I always have some button to press whether it is OB or FS or BS but there doesn't seem to be any downtime and I just feel like I have more runic power than I can spend. I'm running in Blood btw maybe i can try it with Unholy presence instead maybe that'll change things.

For now I'll just go similair path with Unholy and replace DC with FS and SS with OB?
You have the right idea, 1 disease with HB, 2 with IT.

I play frost in Unholy Presence with the IT glyph, since I've found that I'm almost always GCD capped in some form in Blood Presence. There's just too much to do with a 130 RP cap and a 32 RP high damage attack. In UP, I generally HB on every Rime proc, as the extra damage can't hurt (so long as my runes are on cooldown and I'm not RP capped).

As a general rule, you can replace DC with FS and SS with OB, but it'll end up being a different in practice. Your disease will be 3s shorter, so you'll have to renew them more often and OB won't refresh their duration. FS is a much more spammy move than DC as well, so you'll find that you're dumping RP a lot more often that you were with Unholy.

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Old 05/14/09, 1:53 PM   #1577
Nimic
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Firetree
Originally Posted by coca View Post
Thanks for the quick response. I have the sigil from XT maybe that is why i'm seeing larger numbers from FS. Other questions I have is should I glyph for HB or go for IT? Or maybe that is dependent on whether I play 1 disease or 2. I'll glyph for IT and go for 2 diseases. Should I HB whenever Rime procs? That does cost me a GCD so I was wondering if it is worth it. As it is now I always have some button to press whether it is OB or FS or BS but there doesn't seem to be any downtime and I just feel like I have more runic power than I can spend. I'm running in Blood btw maybe i can try it with Unholy presence instead maybe that'll change things.

For now I'll just go similair path with Unholy and replace DC with FS and SS with OB?
Glyph for IT. If you are running a two disease rotation then FF application from HB would be a waste. The extra runic power generated from the IT glyph will provide you with a few extra FS over the course of a boss battle. Save the rime proc for when your runes are down when possible. Priority wise it should be low priority to use the rime proc, unless you are AOE'ing. Definitely use blood presence, the 15% loss in damage will hurt you on the meters. If the rotations feel tight, it's because you're not used to them yet.

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Old 05/14/09, 2:05 PM   #1578
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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Originally Posted by Nimic View Post
Definitely use blood presence, the 15% loss in damage will hurt you on the meters. If the rotations feel tight, it's because you're not used to them yet.
This is flat out not true. It varies widely on a fight to fight basis, as you can tell by looking through the Wowmeter boards.

Personally, I've found Unholy Presence to generally be better DPS than Blood, just because my RP generation is so high with Glyphed IT and the abundance of magic damage present in Ulduar. I tend to gain about 200-300 RP from AMS alone on any given fight and I have nowhere near the GCDs to use it all in Blood Presence.

For those who are interested, here's my latest parse of Frost in Unholy Presence: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis.

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

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Old 05/14/09, 3:38 PM   #1579
Bryne
The Treachery of Forums
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
Personally, I've found Unholy Presence to generally be better DPS than Blood, just because my RP generation is so high with Glyphed IT and the abundance of magic damage present in Ulduar. I tend to gain about 200-300 RP from AMS alone on any given fight and I have nowhere near the GCDs to use it all in Blood Presence. World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis.
This was my experience trying out glyphed IT as well last night. Using death runes on IT with the odd AMS filling up my bar kept me almost GCD-locked even in unholy with the sheer amount of FS spam possible.

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Old 05/14/09, 4:47 PM   #1580
coca
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by Bryne View Post
This was my experience trying out glyphed IT as well last night. Using death runes on IT with the odd AMS filling up my bar kept me almost GCD-locked even in unholy with the sheer amount of FS spam possible.
That is new to me to use IT on Death Runes? Is this a dps increase over using OB? I guess is using IT twice and FS better than OB? I guess I have to test it out to determine if we have enough GCD to use that extra FS in the rotation or not and whether the dps from IT and those extra FS outdps the OB. If others have already tested this and I'm just being ignorant please do tell.

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Old 05/14/09, 4:53 PM   #1581
 Darkside
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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Originally Posted by coca View Post
That is new to me to use IT on Death Runes? Is this a dps increase over using OB? I guess is using IT twice and FS better than OB? I guess I have to test it out to determine if we have enough GCD to use that extra FS in the rotation or not and whether the dps from IT and those extra FS outdps the OB. If others have already tested this and I'm just being ignorant please do tell.
On a given raid night for me, two ITs will hit for about 5804 and generate 50 RP. Oblit will hit for an average of 6890 and generate about 25 RP. So you can see that by using IT instead of OB, you lose about 1k damage and gain 25 RP. This runic power gain EASILY offsets the loss of damage, resulting in a net DPS gain.

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

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Old 05/14/09, 5:38 PM   #1582
richard
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Kazzak (EU)
How does [Glyph of Icebound Fortitude] work? Is it useful as a tank, or will it only increase the amount reduced if you have 0 defense rating?

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Old 05/14/09, 5:47 PM   #1583
 Darkside
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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Originally Posted by richard View Post
How does [Glyph of Icebound Fortitude] work? Is it useful as a tank, or will it only increase the amount reduced if you have 0 defense rating?
According to this the glyph simply adds 10% to the reduction given by IBF, regardless of your defense skill.

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

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Originally Posted by Zeroblack View Post
The Ignore functionality doesn't work if you guys keep quoting him.

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Old 05/15/09, 3:11 AM   #1584
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Anybody know what Cinderglacier's proc rate looks like? I've only been able to find guesses that it is ~1 PPM, but I'd like to get a more solid idea of where it is and how it behaves in order to implement it in the rawr.DPSDK module.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:34 AM   #1585
Vlakith
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Im interested if you can recommand any add-on for dks, especially something that could help with disease and UB timers.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:38 AM   #1586
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
MagicRunes tracks rune cooldowns, RP, diseases, and UB all in one convenient, customizable package.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:39 AM   #1587
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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NeedToKnow : WoWInterface Downloads : Buff/Debuff/Spell Mods

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

And remember:
Originally Posted by Zeroblack View Post
The Ignore functionality doesn't work if you guys keep quoting him.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:47 AM   #1588
Bloody_sorcerer
back in my day, we tanked uphill in the snow
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Did the change to razorice ("Rune of Razorice now affects Frost damage done by the death knight only, but stacks up to 10%.") from the 3.1 patchnotes actually go live? I haven't looked at RI in game recently, can't currently log in, and wowhead doesn't have a definitive answer.

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Old 05/15/09, 11:48 AM   #1589
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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The rune currently works as stated on it's tooltip (it only affects the Death Knight).

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

And remember:
Originally Posted by Zeroblack View Post
The Ignore functionality doesn't work if you guys keep quoting him.

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Old 05/15/09, 12:32 PM   #1590
Bryne
The Treachery of Forums
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Razorice was stealth nerfed/bugged in 3.1 to only stack to 5%, it has never been 10% on live servers despite patch notes. It's really not worth using for any spec on any fight (except maybe Hodir and even that is pretty thin).

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Old 05/15/09, 12:39 PM   #1591
thumper242
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Whisperwind
Last night I tried out WoWwebstats for the first time on our second night in naxx and was shocked to find that White damage made up nearly a third of my overall damage.

51/0/20 is my spec.
Major Glyphs are [Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon], [Glyph of Dark Death], and [Glyph of Death Strike]
Minor are [Glyph of Pestilence], [Glyph of Raise Dead], and [Glyph of Horn of Winter].

For my rotation I have a macro that I mash.
/castsequence reset=1 Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Death Strike, Death Coil, Death Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Heart Strike, Death Coil, Death Coil
Then a Macro I use for burst damage and/or getting horn of winter up once I get some death runes and full runic power.
/castsequence reset=1 Horn of Winter, Blood Tap, Dancing Rune Weapon, Vampiric Blood, Raise Dead
The report, seen here, shows white damage at 27% of my total output, followed by heart strike and death strike at 23% and 13% respectively.

In a 20 second rotation I auto attack five times, compared to heart strike's six and death strike's 2. These numbers just seem a bit out of wack.

I suppose my question, after all that, is why is my white damage so high? My DPS seems to match my gear so I'm not too concerned. But I also don't want to be sitting idly by while there is some DPS to be had.

** Edited to fix redundant typo

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Old 05/15/09, 12:49 PM   #1592
Bryne
The Treachery of Forums
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by thumper242 View Post
Last night I tried out WoWwebstats for the first time on our second night in naxx and was shocked to find that White damage made up nearly a third of my overall damage.

For my rotation I have a macro that I mash.
Your white damage is so high because you are using a shitty macro. Learn how to run the rotations correctly and manually and you should see your DPS go up as your % of white damage goes down.

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Old 05/15/09, 1:00 PM   #1593
Amroo
Lycanthrope Mastermind
 
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Worgen Death Knight
 
Alexstrasza (EU)
Castsequence-macros never yield the same DPS as actually learning the rotation and being proficient at it yourself. Although a Blood spec at a Patchwerk-like fight might be the sole exception to this, since you really can't do a lot wrong there - if you are expertise capped.

Which you are not. Which isn't terribly bad unless you are using a castsequence macro. As you can see you missed more than 8% of your Heart Strikes, which is your main nuke in Blood. If you do the rotation yourself you just HS again, if you use a macro the HS ist lost. So using a macro yields inefficient use of abilities, therefore the percentage of white damage increases (since you can't mess up a lot there). If you think 4k DPS is a lot for your gear status, imagine what heights you would be able to reach if you actually pushed more than one button.

Also, 27% is closer to one quarter than one third, I think usually white DPS jumps between 20 and 25% for Blood.
But seriously, I'd recommend you don't even start using cast sequence macros. They might not be terribly shitty in Naxx, but as content progresses it will probably progress without you, since the DPS gap only increases as encounters become more versatile and difficult. Also, Blood rotation isn't very hard to learn.

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Old 05/15/09, 1:54 PM   #1594
shopshopshop
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Death Knight
 
Alexstrasza
Imp. Icy Talons

How valuable is Improved Icy Talons to a raid? My guild doesn't currently run with an Enh. Shaman and I usually spec Frost DPS, but recently I've been considering swapping to Unholy or just trying out different specs. Is it worth staying Frost to keep buffing the raid?

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Old 05/15/09, 2:50 PM   #1595
Ashur25
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Kargath (EU)
Originally Posted by shopshopshop View Post
How valuable is Improved Icy Talons to a raid? My guild doesn't currently run with an Enh. Shaman and I usually spec Frost DPS, but recently I've been considering swapping to Unholy or just trying out different specs. Is it worth staying Frost to keep buffing the raid?
simple answer: Yes, giving your whole raid 20% haste is a much bigger (raid) dps increase than you could ever get by switching to blood or unholy

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Old 05/15/09, 8:14 PM   #1596
coca
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by Ashur25 View Post
simple answer: Yes, giving your whole raid 20% haste is a much bigger (raid) dps increase than you could ever get by switching to blood or unholy
Well this really does depends on your raid composition. Are you running 25 or 10? If you're running 10 and you're caster heavy then being unholy would be more beneficial because of the 13% magic debuff. If you're melee heavy then frost would be more beneficial. In 25 man I'm pretty sure you're half melee and half caster so you'd most likely benefit the raid more with a haste benefit for the melee.

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Old 05/15/09, 8:45 PM   #1597
richard
Piston Honda
 
Human Death Knight
 
Kazzak (EU)
It depends on the specs of other classes, if you don't have the 10% AP buff it would be more beneficial to raid DPS to spec blood and let a shaman use windfury (16%) anyway.

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Old 05/16/09, 1:25 AM   #1598
Feru
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Exodar
I'm curious to know how the [Furious Gladiator's Crusher] stacks up against the PvE weapons.

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Old 05/16/09, 1:50 AM   #1599
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
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Originally Posted by Feru View Post
I'm curious to know how the [Furious Gladiator's Crusher] stacks up against the PvE weapons.
They actually stack up very nicely, assuming you can actually get your hands on one. The high base damage makes them very comparable to Aesir's/Voldrethar and they probably edge out a lot of the 232 weapons (especially those without strength).

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

And remember:
Originally Posted by Zeroblack View Post
The Ignore functionality doesn't work if you guys keep quoting him.

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Old 05/16/09, 11:02 PM   #1600
Redhorn
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Nagrand
For dps, which is better? 3/3 Morbidity or 5/5 Necrosis?

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