Slider_1128

Im new to the deathknight class, and there is ALOT of great info in these forums!

I do have a question, since the Deathknight forum doesnt have much on PVP, What are the pros and cons of each of the talent trees? I did some research and looked up all the Deathknights in the top 10 on 2v2 grps and 3v3 grps. and 95% of them are Unholy with close to the same build. I can see how the build would be effective. But i would think its blood would be effective cause of its longevity. I tried out lvling as both blood and unholy and found i liked blood more. Maybe its cause its more my play style, i prefer survivablity to max dps. And i would expect to see more of these in upper pvp tiers.

Anyway has anyone done testing with pvp.

 

crazy dodo

It does not take the racial bonus into consideration. So you're at 9%

You can always check this by dividing your hit rating by 32.79 (at lvl80) for melee hit% and 26.23 for spell hit% (yes they are different)

 

Fingaz

I've been gearing my DK with ulduar gear and trying for most of the BiS unholy gear. I'm currently using 0/10/61. I've got 4 pieces of T8 and aseirs egdge but I can't seem to top the dps meters on boss's. I don't have a lot of t7.5 since I came back to the game right before uld came out. I don't do any tanking. I mainly sped time raiding as dps and pvp'n. I'm looking for a spec that will maximize my dps. I want to be in the top 5 on the dps meters as much as possible. One of the DK tanks in our guild when he goes dps spec destroys everybody. I can't even stay close to him. He's using frost btw. Any advice on a spec for maximun dps on boss fights would be appreciated. I do not have the sigil yet from xt but if I do decide to go frost I will be getting it asap. Thanks in advance

 

crazy dodo

your spec is not the issue. I find unholy cookie cutter build to be superior to frost and at par with blood, so it's your gear or your rotation.

Your armory currently shows you with quite a few pvp pieces, is this your actual raiding gear (hopefuly not) and what tier bonuses are you currently using?
If you're more T8 heavy you can try the UB glyph (check the Unholy DPS thread for pros/cons) but it takes some getting used to. And on that note, what is your current rotation?

 

Fingaz

No that's my pvp gear not my raiding gear. My current rotation is IT,PS,BSx2,SS,UB,SSx3,Rune dump,if scourge strike glyph procs, get BSx2,SSx2 next rotation. I throw my gargole in whenever it's up and try to max out RP before I use it to max it's time. In aoe fights on trash I'm pulling top dps no problem but in boss fights I can't seem to beat some of the rogues and hunters but the other DK is. Trying to figure out why.

 

• frmorrison

The hit bonus does not show on your sheet (it only shows hit rating converted to hit), so you have 9.03% melee hit.

You want to use Garg when your weapon enchant procs at least instead of just blowing it on cooldown. Using /cast Potion of Speed /cast Garg will help, and reading the Unholy thread for other tips. Your situation sounds like a gear issue as well (you need some upgrades).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Wistful

Hi there, not sure if this is the right place to post this.. and I know this is probably the 572195729 "I need help with my dps" post that you guys have read, but having said that, I would really appreciate some advice on improving my dps in raids.

First of all, some background info, am playing currently as a Blood (51/0/20) Blood Elf DK. I have been playing as a melee class (rogue) since Vanilla, thus, I am familiar with the basic rules of PvE dps. Have also been keeping myself fairly up-to-date on how to maximise PvE dps (eg. priority system, item weights for Blood, etcetc) by reading EJ fairly regularly.

Recently, I have been finding myself posting poor numbers at single target bosses (usually last amongst melee classes by a substantial amount) and am wondering where have I gone wrong.

With regards to my gear, I usually run with 4pc T8 with some other ArP pieces from Ulduar 10/25. I am aware of the 420ArP soft-cap (have Mjolnir Runestone) and Aesir's Edge hasn't been dropping for me. Am currently geared for hit cap but not expertise cap.

Below is a parse from one of my XT hard mode fights (which I feel is one of the best ways to judge sustained melee dps, barring Gravity/Light bombs and ignoring Heart DPS):

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

I understand that my rotation in that parse had some flaws (too few Heart Strikes / Death Coils and too many Death Strikes) in that parse as it was a rather frantic attempt for myself. With that notwithstanding, I am unsure as to why I am coming up with such numbers.

To hazard a wild guess, I noticed that the number of skills performed (DS, HS, DC, etc) from my 09:23 kill was similar to the number of other DKs with shorter kill times, eg. WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay or WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay.

FWIW, I am running on Oceanic ping (400 - 500ms) and have been finding few free GCDs even with the supposed loose rotation that Blood is supposed to have.

Thus, I would really appreciate any feedback if there are any fundamental issues with my playstyle, rotation or gearing before I can further pinpoint what is hindering my dps.

Apologies for the long post.

Cheers

 

Xequecal

Is there any way to macro Rune Strike to Death and Decay? Simply making a macro with /cast Rune Strike /cast Death and Decay doesn't work, no idea why.

 

crazy dodo

try
this will attempt to queue a Rune Strike (if you have available RP) before casting Death and Decay, you can use the same macro with any other skill (Obliterate, Icy Touch, etc.) depending on how you prefer to use up your RP

 

thedudeabides

Just getting into tanking on my DK, and i specced the Blood build from Suno's Endgame Tanking Thread here. This build picks up 3/3 Spell Deflection (in my build i drop hysteria and mark of blood for 3/3 DRM, but that's apart from my question).

However, i noticed when looking at many of the armory's of posters in the end of the thread, that they drop 3/3 Spell Deflection, and pick up either subverion, morbidity, or in some cases sudden doom + morbidity (dropping rune tap).

Why are tanks dropping Spell Deflection? With a parry of ~18-20%, that means about 1 in 5 spells will take 45% less damage. Are they dropping because the term "direct damage spell" doesn't apply to many encounters, or because the actual proc rate is so low (thus unreliable) or because they are trying to get more TPS?

 

• emptyrepublic

Personally I take Spell Deflection myself given some of the content my guild and I are on at the moment. Many people prefer the "constant" effect that Subversion, Morbidity, etc provide given that Spell Deflection is a chance effect. In reality it's a personal preference. You are balancing potentially more mitigation against a specific type of damage versus an increase in overall threat. It depends what you and your guild are doing and your play style on which path you wish to take.

 

• Darkside

Most people are dropping the talen because it has very little application in the current end-game raiding; almost no bosses use DD spells on the player (I actually can't think of any right now). On the flip side, many of the encounters in Ulduar are threat sensitive (Hodir, Vezax etc.) so grabbing extra threat talents like Necrosis, Sudden Doom etc. are extremely helpful.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

thedudeabides

Thank you for the reply. For my understanding, can you give me a few examples from Naxx and Ulduar of what constitute a DD spell and what does not (even though you take spell damage?)

ie. blizzard from Saph, flame jets from ignis, eye beam from Kologarn, light/gravity bombs on XT (not that a MT should worry about those)

 

• Darkside

The biggest example would be Sarth's flame breath. This is the only notable example though, as pretty much every other DD spell in the game hits for tiddlywinks, so you don't have to worry about gearing around it. Examples of attacks that don't count would be Fusion Punch, Frozen Blows, XT Bombs and Plasma Blast (I think).

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

Travex

How much does weapon speed affect DPS? For example, I am currently using Lotrafen (3.4 weapon speed) but would Aesir's Edge (3.6 weapon speed) be noticeably better? Don't want to take away Aesir's Edge from our tanks that have to go offspec quite a bit if the increase is minor. Blood DPS spec if that matters at all.

 

• Asphyxialol

Lotrafen's rating with under blood EAP is 2979.545, Aesir's is worth 2929.344 points *before* sockets are taken into consideration. With double Bold Scarlet Ruby it is worth 3021.824, with a Bold Dragon's Eye and a Bold Scarlet Ruby it is worth 3070.954. I have found that ~100 EAP matters very little in the scheme of an average gear set which is worth over 11,200, so take what you will from that.

 

Blodalv

How does the Blood talent tree correspond to Dual-Wielding? I've come to understand that the Blood tree is based almost entirely on physical damage. How does that affect choice of weapon, should I go for a fast mainhand and a slow offhand or vice versa? Anyone with experience trying this, please let me know.

 

Foxx2405

Actually blood is the least viable tree to dual wield with.

Blood has the most non-magic damage. And all our strikes (non-magic) are based on weapon damage. So blood would not be a smart choice if you want dual wield.

Frost is an option (gonna be the centric dual wield tree next build), since you can make a build that relies heavily on icy touch damage.

Unholy is, at this moment, most likely your best option. You can make a build that revolves heavily around death coil damage.

 

Khrala

I am trying to decide between [Leggings of Innumerable Barbs] + [Crude Discolored Battlegrips] and [Heroes' Scourgeborne Legplates] + [Heroes' Scourgeborne Gauntlets].

My wow armory is The World of Warcraft Armory

Using the appropriate stat weighting, and similar gems/enchants, the Innumerable + Discolored comes out slightly higher (3% or so), but that doesn't take into consideration the 4 piece T7 bonus. How do I factor that? And any opinions on which combo is better for me?

Thanks in advance.

 

crazy dodo

It's really a comparisson for the gloves only as Heroes Legplates are better stats wise.
With the gloves the only question is will you be hit capped with Heroes as that's the only added benefit to the Battlegrips. the 4pc bonus is a definite must as it provides a lot of free RP, so if you can get the hit somewhere else go for both Heroes pieces.

 

blackmaji360

@ fingaz.

You are below expertise cap. next time u raid check and see if you have long strings of parries and dodges. expertise is more important for blood but you are currently low for even unholy. if you can get around 20-21 expertise you should see a noticable increase.

@ wistful

You didnt list your rotation so i cant really tell if your doing anything wrong. There is a dps forum dedicated specifically for blood. im sure you could find your answer there. but i am almost certain it is your expertise. expertise lowers the chance that u will be parried or dodged. for blood expertise is crucial since it is the most physical talent tree. as you near the cap you will see a substantial increase in dps.

 

Wistful

Hi Blackmaji

I'm fairly certain that expertise is not the main contributing factor as the 8 gcds (12s) that would have been avoided if I was expertise capped doesn't add up to the added time difference of almost 1 1/2 mins.

Edit: I did some math based on information from the DW thread regarding latency and it appears that latency is indeed the contributing factor.

Thanks for your time.

 

• Soilantgreen64

That's all well and good, but the simple fact that only 1 of your weapons gets copied for DRW is the single biggest factor as to why you shouldn't dual wield with Blood (graphically anyways, it's been reported that the DRW still has off hand dmg if you cast it while dual wielding).

 

aegir123

nvm delete, should just read the already active threads instead

 

Drenhar

This wasn't covered in the blood thread, so i'll tempt fate and ask here.

With 3.2 upcoming and a huge chunk of gear from colisseum having Arpen on it, i've decided to ditch unholy as my spec and go blood. Having said that, i'm just now working on collecting what gear i can with Arpen to stock up for the switch. Is there a roundabout figure for how much Arpen i want to still do strong dps when i switch? My goal is to hit the 100% Arpen cap, but grim toll just hasnt happened for me yet. I'm worried when i switch to blood that my dps will flounder horribly because of this. I'm sitting at around 4.2k dps in the gear i have now in unholy, and i'd prefer to switch to blood with similar numbers, as my guild runs 10 mans exclusively, and being the top dps, I really can't afford to dip much lower. Any thoughts?

(note: if someone looks over my wowarmory to answer, the gear is what i use to dps in, but i'm in my bastardized unholy tank tree for the pale horse talent as i farm, just a heads up).