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Old 07/23/09, 12:56 PM   #1876
qaroon
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Drenhar View Post
This wasn't covered in the blood thread, so i'll tempt fate and ask here.

With 3.2 upcoming and a huge chunk of gear from colisseum having Arpen on it, i've decided to ditch unholy as my spec and go blood. Having said that, i'm just now working on collecting what gear i can with Arpen to stock up for the switch. Is there a roundabout figure for how much Arpen i want to still do strong dps when i switch? My goal is to hit the 100% Arpen cap, but grim toll just hasnt happened for me yet. I'm worried when i switch to blood that my dps will flounder horribly because of this. I'm sitting at around 4.2k dps in the gear i have now in unholy, and i'd prefer to switch to blood with similar numbers, as my guild runs 10 mans exclusively, and being the top dps, I really can't afford to dip much lower. Any thoughts?

(note: if someone looks over my wowarmory to answer, the gear is what i use to dps in, but i'm in my bastardized unholy tank tree for the pale horse talent as i farm, just a heads up).
Grim Toll procs give about 40% Armor Pen, I don't know if your 10 man group has faerie fire and sunder, also the blood talent "Blood Gorged" gives 10% armor pen, this means you have to field 40% or less static armor pen from your gear.

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Old 07/23/09, 12:58 PM   #1877
 Darkside
I find your lack of faith disturbing
 
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Kroot
Orc Death Knight
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by qaroon View Post
Grim Toll procs give about 40% Armor Pen, I don't know if your 10 man group has faerie fire and sunder, also the blood talent "Blood Gorged" gives 10% armor pen, this means you have to field 40% or less static armor pen from your gear.
Faerie Fire and Sunder Armor do not stack additively with ArPen from gear and talents. Rather, they are applied beforehand. This change was introduced in 3.1 to prevent the changes of Sunder/FF from static reduction to percentage based reductions from having any impact on PvE content.

Three steps to a better EJB experience: Step One, Step Two, Step Three

And remember:
Originally Posted by Zeroblack View Post
The Ignore functionality doesn't work if you guys keep quoting him.

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Old 07/24/09, 10:24 AM   #1878
Feenor
Glass Joe
 
Troll Death Knight
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Is the haste rating worth anything while tanking and you don't have bigger threat problems? I mean if is 0 haste better than for ex. 16 haste? It doesn't add much to your threat, and boss attacks you more (assuming you aren't expertise parry capped). Also, if I'm specced in Improved Icy Talons should I add /cancelaura Improved Icy Talons to every ability?

Is the damage reduction from IBF calculated when you cast it, or during its duration? I was wondering if would it be good to make a macro:
/equip random green weapon with defense rating and stoneskin gargoyle rune
/cast Icebound Fortitude
/equip your usual weapon

Why is 1% parry better than 1% dodge? Assuming I don't have threat problems, if I parry I get faster melee swing which could be also parried, thus boss attacks me more (Again, assuming I'm not expertise parry capped)

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Old 07/24/09, 11:14 AM   #1879
Janraea
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Feenor View Post
Is the haste rating worth anything while tanking and you don't have bigger threat problems? I mean if is 0 haste better than for ex. 16 haste? It doesn't add much to your threat, and boss attacks you more (assuming you aren't expertise parry capped). Also, if I'm specced in Improved Icy Talons should I add /cancelaura Improved Icy Talons to every ability?
(IBF stuff)
Why is 1% parry better than 1% dodge? Assuming I don't have threat problems, if I parry I get faster melee swing which could be also parried, thus boss attacks me more (Again, assuming I'm not expertise parry capped)
You're strongly overestimating the importance of parry-hasting. Going from a two hander to two, faster 1-handers causes parry-haste issues because it amounts to a *300%* increase in attack speed. The parry-hasting from a 1% increase in your attack speed would still be lost in the RNG after 8 hours of simulated combat.

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Old 07/24/09, 11:18 AM   #1880
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
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Originally Posted by Feenor View Post
Is the haste rating worth anything while tanking and you don't have bigger threat problems? I mean if is 0 haste better than for ex. 16 haste? It doesn't add much to your threat, and boss attacks you more (assuming you aren't expertise parry capped). Also, if I'm specced in Improved Icy Talons should I add /cancelaura Improved Icy Talons to every ability?

Is the damage reduction from IBF calculated when you cast it, or during its duration? I was wondering if would it be good to make a macro:
/equip random green weapon with defense rating and stoneskin gargoyle rune
/cast Icebound Fortitude
/equip your usual weapon

Why is 1% parry better than 1% dodge? Assuming I don't have threat problems, if I parry I get faster melee swing which could be also parried, thus boss attacks me more (Again, assuming I'm not expertise parry capped)
Haste rating gives more threat and damage while slightly increasing chance of parry gibs. I guess you could /cancel it if you were scared of getting more parries, but I wouldn't.

I believe you are right (IBF calculates % reduction at time of cast), however the issue with swapping in a green weapon is you lose stamina/avoidance/threat from normal weapon (while the green is equipped) and you lose a GCD and melee swing (just less threat) for a little bit stronger IBF. I don't even think sigil swapping is worth it, and all you lose is a gcd/swing.

1% parry is better than 1% dodge because of parry haste (more threat), but due to how they work (it takes more parry rating than dodge rating to get 1% and strength gives parry rating as well, making parry reach diminishing returns), it is better to use dodge rating (if you have a choice).

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 07/25/09, 6:17 PM   #1881
HamSlammer
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Paladin
 
Emerald Dream
What provides more point-for-point DPS in a self-buffed scenario, Impurity or Rage of Rivendare?

I presume both give roughly the same contribution, with Impurity pulling ahead at some given inflection point of AP. If this is true, what is that point?

(Edit - in regards to both 12/0/59 and 0/10/61 if possible, thank you.)

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Old 07/25/09, 8:16 PM   #1882
Consider
King Hippo
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Impurity and Rage of Rivendare are both must have talents, in either 12/0/59 or 0/10/61. Weighing the value of one verse the other, although certainly doable, is quite unnecessary. GF/IUP/Morbidity/Necrosis (which people take points out of varies) are the talents which are considered optional to varying degrees, as any of the four are far weaker than Impurity and Rage of Rivendare.

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Old 07/26/09, 1:08 AM   #1883
Sylari
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Haven't found an answer to this, but does anyone here know how WP stacks with 4pT9? If both proc at the same time will that be a crit + explosion for 300% DoT damage on a double proc or does WP "explode" for the crit damage as well ( for 400% damage on a double proc ) ?

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Old 07/26/09, 1:51 AM   #1884
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
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Originally Posted by Sylari View Post
Haven't found an answer to this, but does anyone here know how WP stacks with 4pT9? If both proc at the same time will that be a crit + explosion for 300% DoT damage on a double proc or does WP "explode" for the crit damage as well ( for 400% damage on a double proc ) ?
I am fairly sure Wandering Plague only works on base damage, so if 4T9 and WP hit on a tic, it would do 3x damage.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 07/26/09, 1:55 AM   #1885
Beckin
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Fingaz View Post
No that's my pvp gear not my raiding gear. My current rotation is IT,PS,BSx2,SS,UB,SSx3,Rune dump,if scourge strike glyph procs, get BSx2,SSx2 next rotation. I throw my gargole in whenever it's up and try to max out RP before I use it to max it's time. In aoe fights on trash I'm pulling top dps no problem but in boss fights I can't seem to beat some of the rogues and hunters but the other DK is. Trying to figure out why.
That's almost the same rotation I use (props Kyoco) but slightly modified and imo Unholy Blight glyph is better for overall damage during a raid. IT, PS, BSx2, SS, UB and Horn of Winter. I put HoW in there for the extra runic increase which, in the long run, provides more DC's and more RP to apply to whatever. I stuck with Unholy Blight Glyph and use ClassTimer addon just to watch the cooldown on the diseases and always stick to SSx3 then Dump. As for gargoyle, I tend to save it for Bloodlust and another aspect to possibly help you is I pop Potion of Speed once Bloodlust goes.

On some single target bosses, an equally geared Rogue will probably out do you as will Hunter's but on most everything else you will dominate. I've seen 7-12k on my Recount for AoE fights / trash and can usually hit 5000-5300ish DPS on single target bosses.

Horn of Winter is a gem that alot of DK's I've talked too never use but that added Runic Power can come in handy.

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Old 07/26/09, 7:47 AM   #1886
Dknights
Glass Joe
 
Dknights
Orc Death Knight
 
Frostmourne
From Blood simple thread i got after ap reach around 6300 with raid buffs, the arp is more benefit than ap so should i change all me gem from ap to arp ? just make sure keeping ap aroud 6300 with raid buffs ?

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Old 07/26/09, 10:03 AM   #1887
seanthomas999
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Dknights View Post
From Blood simple thread i got after ap reach around 6300 with raid buffs, the arp is more benefit than ap so should i change all me gem from ap to arp ? just make sure keeping ap aroud 6300 with raid buffs ?
There won't be much point in gemming ArP once you hit the 100% armour reduction, that is including the use of trinkets, for example grim toll and mjonir runestone. But gem ArP until you reach the cap and then back to strength.
Don't do what I did and gem for ArP and test it out in heriocs... the bosses have virtually 0 armor compared to thos in ulduar, so test it out in a real raid environment and see if it works for you.

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Old 07/26/09, 11:48 AM   #1888
Dknights
Glass Joe
 
Dknights
Orc Death Knight
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by seanthomas999 View Post
There won't be much point in gemming ArP once you hit the 100% armour reduction, that is including the use of trinkets, for example grim toll and mjonir runestone. But gem ArP until you reach the cap and then back to strength.
Don't do what I did and gem for ArP and test it out in heriocs... the bosses have virtually 0 armor compared to thos in ulduar, so test it out in a real raid environment and see if it works for you.

the blood talen provides 10% ignore , warrior provides around 20%, the Trinket provides nearby 50% total=around 80%

so i just need to make my base arp to 20%? the rest of gems are all for str, is it right ?

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Old 07/26/09, 12:39 PM   #1889
Baklava09
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Maelstrom
I'm sure these questions have been answered before but I am having a tough time finding them (even after reading through the forums for quite a bit).

1. Does anybody know how much a dps increase t8 2 piece and t8 4 piece is for each spec? Thanks.

2. I see a lot of pvp unholy builds skip out points in Impurity for Magic Suppression/AMZ. How much damage would one be sacrificing by foregoing that talent? Or how much dps is it worth per point?

Thanks for your time.

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Old 07/26/09, 6:08 PM   #1890
seanthomas999
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Dknights View Post
the blood talen provides 10% ignore , warrior provides around 20%, the Trinket provides nearby 50% total=around 80%

so i just need to make my base arp to 20%? the rest of gems are all for str, is it right ?
That is only if you are blood specced, but warriors shattering throw is used very little and only lasts around 15 secs (i believe) and there for upto about 50% ArP is needed as the trinket will have about a 30% up time. i have seen warriors themselves with 64% ArP and they have been known to do huge dps, but with the semi low uptime of the trinket due too its internal cooldown and RNG it may well be worth gemming higher, but it is all personal oppinion

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Old 07/27/09, 1:25 AM   #1891
Jeremy
mogged t6. how original.
 
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Kaen
Blood Elf Warrior
 
No WoW Account
In the blood DPS thread, stat weights are presented, but something I can't find information about is weapon top-end. Does it weigh in at all in choosing a weapon over another, or is the weapon's DPS number the only factor? (i.e. two weapons with 232 DPS, one with 1005 top vs 949)

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Old 07/27/09, 11:44 AM   #1892
Jaylebate
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Nordrassil
Is there a way to find out which tanking cooldowns are additive or multiplicative?

Or Where i can find the old Sartharion thread? Did it get deleted or moved to an archive?

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Old 07/27/09, 12:36 PM   #1893
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Jaylebate View Post
Is there a way to find out which tanking cooldowns are additive or multiplicative?

Or Where i can find the old Sartharion thread? Did it get deleted or moved to an archive?
Nearly all cooldowns are multiplicative, however there could be a few exceptions.

Unless a thread is really bad (then it goes to the banhammer), a thread will be remain in the DK subforum. However, I believe the default setting is show threads one month old, so you have to change that or use the search function to find old stuff.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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Old 07/28/09, 4:04 AM   #1894
Ebonplague
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Durotan (EU)
Important note: Due to the way Glyph of Disease refreshes diseases, you want to cast refresh FF using IT at least once in order to get the TS benefit on it, and possibly waiting for procs to maximise the damage of both your diseases
Taken from the updated DW thread. Can someone please tell me, what that TS benefit is and how it applies to FF (and maybe BP)?

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Old 07/28/09, 4:15 AM   #1895
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
Originally Posted by Ebonplague View Post
Taken from the updated DW thread. Can someone please tell me, what that TS benefit is and how it applies to FF (and maybe BP)?
Tundra Stalker - Spell - World of Warcraft, last tier of frost tree.

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Old 07/28/09, 4:18 AM   #1896
Muggins
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
The idea of the refresh for GoD was that you would need to Icy Touch(and Plague Strike) while Frost Fever was already on the target in order for the 15% boost from Tundra Stalker to affect Frost Fever, as it doesn't gain the bonus itself the first time you Icy Touch the target.

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Old 07/29/09, 8:49 AM   #1897
Randywatson
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Muradin
Inevitable Defeat vs. Ironsoul

I have a warrior main but have recently been allured to the dark side by how much fun DK's look like to play. I leveled up a DK and hit 80 4 days ago. Since then, I have put together a hodgepodge set of tanking gear and trying to get my hands on any tanking gear that I can.

One of my first runs was a quick flame leviathan run for alts where we just knocked him out with 2 towers. And, sure enough, Ironsoul dropped and I was lucky enough to win the roll. WOOT!

The next night, I hop into a 25 Naxx farming run that included a bunch of alts. As we're clearing Military wing, Inevitable Defeat drops. I look at the stats and think that Inevitable Defeat would be an ideal tanking weapon and I can keep Ironsoul as my dps/trash weapon. I again am lucky and have the high roll but immediately get flamed in vent for rolling since I already have Ironsoul. I had already gotten some loot so I ended up passing to a Holy Pally main toon rolling on ret gear.

My question to the DK community at large is whether or not Inevitable Defeat is a better main tank weapon than Ironsoul? We are not going for hard more achievements where TPS is of crucial importance. I just want to make sure I have my story straight in case Inevitable Defeat drops again.

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Old 07/29/09, 9:25 AM   #1898
crazy dodo
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Death Knight
 
Khaz Modan
Originally Posted by Randywatson View Post
I have a warrior main but have recently been allured to the dark side by how much fun DK's look like to play. I leveled up a DK and hit 80 4 days ago. Since then, I have put together a hodgepodge set of tanking gear and trying to get my hands on any tanking gear that I can.

One of my first runs was a quick flame leviathan run for alts where we just knocked him out with 2 towers. And, sure enough, Ironsoul dropped and I was lucky enough to win the roll. WOOT!

The next night, I hop into a 25 Naxx farming run that included a bunch of alts. As we're clearing Military wing, Inevitable Defeat drops. I look at the stats and think that Inevitable Defeat would be an ideal tanking weapon and I can keep Ironsoul as my dps/trash weapon. I again am lucky and have the high roll but immediately get flamed in vent for rolling since I already have Ironsoul. I had already gotten some loot so I ended up passing to a Holy Pally main toon rolling on ret gear.

My question to the DK community at large is whether or not Inevitable Defeat is a better main tank weapon than Ironsoul? We are not going for hard more achievements where TPS is of crucial importance. I just want to make sure I have my story straight in case Inevitable Defeat drops again.
Inevitable Defeat is definitely the better tanking weapon due to the stats it packs.
Agility = avoidance and crits
Expertise = less dodge and parry = more threat less boss parry haste

Ironsoul will give you similar threat generation minus the avoidance so it's better suited for blood/frost dps than tanking. However if your gear is sufficient enough that you're not worried about avoidance Ironsoul will do the job just fine and you can try and get yourself a Betrayer for dps since the Inevitable Defeat drop rate is quite low.

Originally Posted by Mike Booth (TF2)
We have you surrounded, at least from this side.

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Old 07/29/09, 11:35 PM   #1899
Uvak
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Kilrogg
Dark Conviction Again?

My apologies if this has already been adressed. Since there will be a significant change in the Desecration talent in 3.2, will it be worth it to put points back into Dark Conviction?

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Old 07/30/09, 12:51 AM   #1900
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Uvak View Post
My apologies if this has already been adressed. Since there will be a significant change in the Desecration talent in 3.2, will it be worth it to put points back into Dark Conviction?
Not for Unholy. The new talent is 5% damage bonus when you use Blood strike. 5% damage is always better than 5% crit.

Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'

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