norg

I need a bit of info for the BiS thread, but it's possibly too dumb a question to ask in the Blood DPS thread. I couldn't find a recent answer anyway.

The current Blood BiS sets all have static ArPen at around the 420 mark, which then obviously comes close to the hard cap once Mjolnir Runestone procs. But what I want to know is, is it worth my while adding in a secondary set for Blood where you do not have Mjolnir?

Presumably it would involve getting as much static ArPen as possible from gear, then gemming ArPen to the hard cap and gemming strength after that. However I know when I was still playing around the time 3.1 hit, for Blood specs ArPen had a stat weight quite close to strength but it was not advisable to gem for it. However according to Zerack's optimizer, its stat weight now seems to be way above str, so is that still the case?

edit: okay, in the build I was looking at last night, the ArPen value was like double the str value, but in the new optimizer build it now has a weight slightly lower than str again. So I guess the second question is now: Is the old advice to gem for str over ArPen still correct then, even if you're aiming to reach the hardcap without trinket procs?

 

Arcdragon

I consider swordshattering a pvp rune. Stoneskin Gargoyle gives you much more freedom to gem for hit and expertise. One you have enough hit and expertise you can gem for stamina and or avoidance, if you so wish.

for blood aoe, death and decay (I spec into morbidity)and blood boil work fine for me except in the arena part of Thorim on 10 man. I change to frost just for the aoe. Thankfully I only ever had to do it once. I love heart strike as its a cleave.

Be sure to communicate with your raid, tell them to give you two seconds to spread diseases and hit the mobs with a blood boil. If you stay frost, you can rival a paladin with aoe.

 

• frmorrison

Actually, no "good" DK uses Swordshattering for PvP (that is partly because IT and DC are so good atm).

Regarding threat issues, all DKs have two taunts (Death Grip only works a few seconds, but it is usually enough), and the dps need to learn to wait 2 seconds for diseases to spread.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

• Soilantgreen64

Before we were pretty easily soft capping ArP, it was proper to gem str until you hit around 6200 raid buffed AP, then people would start switching to ArP. Mainy because ArP in small amounts isn't very good, but it gets better the higher your AP, and is really good when you can stack it, soft cap it, etc. I would say this standard would hold true for people without the ArP proc trinkets.

 

TigrisFrostmane

Question: What's the rotation for 3/13/55?

 

Consider

Same as it is for 0/17/54.
PS - IT - Ob - BS - BS - DC - HoW// Ob - Ob - DC - Ob - DC

You can throw an extra DC in at the end, if you have extra RP from AMS, a resto druid, a disc priest, or whatever. As well, you also have the option of switching your first two Blood Strikes with your first Obliterate, however if/once you have SoVirulence. Although the Desolation affecting a Blood Strike and an Oblit might be superior to the SoVir proc affecting the two Blood Strikes, due to the 10 second ICD of the Sigil, using it before the Blood Strikes means it has a chance to proc sooner than it would if you did that first Oblit after the BSes, which leads to directly higher uptime (while Desolation's uptime is the same with either order). Minute differences either way, but still.

 

TigrisFrostmane

Same except for one less DC from the loss of Chill of the Grave, obviously.

Thanks.

 

Albrechtt

I've been tanking on my DK for a while now, and I've noticed recently that I'm one of the hardest tanks in my guild to heal, especially on Algalon, despite being one of the best geared. Is there something I've been doing wrong (I follow the rotation as perfect as I can get it, have plenty of expertise, not hit capped but that's not much of a problem here) or is the nerf to DKs just really that bad?

Note that I don't spec into IIT because the other tank brings it so there's really no point in having it.

 

leladax

It's the 2nd or 3rd time I notice someone talking about Algalon being hard to be tanked by DKs. It's most probably right; as a fast hitting boss it makes avoidance and block more valuable.

Noting: In my opinion what should not be overlooked is the armor nerf. A point of armor is approximately equivalent to a point of health for physical damage (meaning indestructible potion is like giving +3500HP when tanking physical damage (plus easier healing)). Hence death knights lost not just HP from blood, not just HP from presence, but also effective HP from armor when tanking physical.

 

Raspeh

This is only considering the Strength component though... I realize other stats are not nearly as good as strength, but perhaps only having say 1895 STR (using such a small difference for example) would still merit kings, because of agility's crit (and stam might be helpful for incoming aoe fights). I wonder at what point kings would surpass might taking into consideration agility's small role.

 

Consider

Agility is worth about 1 AP (slightly less for Unholy, slightly more for Blood, but regardless). I have 129 agility (base agi + 10 from chest enchant + 10 from Nightmare Tear), which is probably what most people have (unless they are enchanting their cloak with agility, but that's their mess up). HoW bumps that up to 284.

That means BoK would give you an extra 28 agility, or the equivalent of 28 ap. 28 ap is the same as ~9.33 strength.

How does that change things?

Unimproved Blessing of Might gives 550 ap. This means that, for Kings to be better, you would need to have at least 1887 strength or more.

Improved Blessing of Might gives 688 ap. This means that, for Kings to be better, you would need to have at least 2372 strength or more.

In other words, you would need to have 10 less strength then if you ignore the agility contributions. Really not that big of a deal =p

 

teiglin

Don't forget that you get another 155 from HoW (or 178 from talented SoE). Many people also use an agi weapon/cloak/neck/ring, as it is quite possible for the four dps stats to outpace the higher value of strength. While it's rarely optimal, it can serve a good interim place too when people don't have the BiS strength item.

Not that this changes things a lot more (might/battle shout will still always be a larger dps increase than kings), but you'll always have 300 or so agi in a raid even without agi gear.

 

Meygaera

Just a quick question about blood rotation. The standard rotation in the blood thread is:
IT-PS-HS-HS-DS -DUMP- DS-HS-HS-HS-HS -Dump-

However sometimes I see myself with 2 blood runes and 2 death runes after I restart with IT and PS and what I end up doing is HSx4 at the beginning of my rotation instead of at the end. So it ends up like this:

IT-PS-HS-HS-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx1-HS-HS-DS-DUMPx2

Is this a lesser dps rotation? I still have room for dump phases and my DS still always have atleast 25 RP. Infact sometimes with the 2nd DS in the standard rotation I see myself with only 20RP and I'm losing 5% extra damage on it because the first dump phase generally has 2 GCD's worth of time for 2 DC's.

I also noticed that if you start with: (suggested starting rotation from blood thread)
DS-IT-PS-HS-HS--Raise Ghoul-DC-HS-HS-DS-HS-HS -Dump

You finish off with 2 deathrunes, 2 bloodrunes, and U/Fx1 left for IT and PS so you can go right into HSx4 at the start of your rotation anyways.

So my question is, would doing this rotation be a loss of DPS?

[edit] I guess this wasn't answered, so I will re-post this in the blood forum soon, unless doing so would violate any sort of forum rules that I don't know about.

 

Carneage

Drape of Icy Intent or Drape of the Drakerider for DK DW Frost Dps?

Im looking at the stat weights and it seems razorscales cloak is on top (Not including the hit rating for the Drape of Icy Intent) So would i be using Icy intent if im not hit capped? Ill be ditching Grim toll soon for Darkmoon Card Greatness so I guess i Should keep the hit for that? Ill be at about 6% after Grim toll is replaced.

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Arcdragon

Try putting points into improved blood presence. Sure, people might laugh at you and I have no doubt many will laugh at me saying this but I have it and people find me to be one of the easiest tanks to heal. Remember that they buffed disease damage. I now see my self healing from diseases alone to be more healing than what I'd get from having a shadow priest in my group (I usually don't, my guild is strict ten man).

Also it scales with vampiric blood.

The self healing you gain from the damage you do, combined with the heals from death strike mean I mitigate alot of damage by healing myself. The very least you can do is try it, also you might want to consider using four pieces of T8.5 if you have it, the 4pc set bonus is nothing short of amazing. At least it is to me.

I find I have a little less health but better survivability since 3.2.

I noticed you do not have mark of blood, this is an amazing tank cooldown that can also be used to heal others during encounters with frequent raid damage. If you chain vampiric blood with mark of blood, your healer can practically go afk for the duration.

 

leladax

I've thought of that too and I'm not laughing at you; I even contemplated of using bloodworms for the same reason but that may be an overkill.

However, there's a high limitation in those methods: you have to assume it's for fights where there is minimal overhealing and the HP bar is largely on the 50-90% side. This is very hard to happen in most hard hitting bosses, especially if it's a 25-man with several healers spamming at once.

It may be more beneficial in 10-mans and when the Healing arrangement is generally less on the overhealing side.

 

• frmorrison

Bloodworm AI isn't the best since sometimes they attack from the front (causing parry haste). Assuming like the previous poster you didn't trust your healers, I would think maxing Rune Tap would be the first choice, then Mark of Blood, then imp Blood Presence.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

leladax

I realize the technical superiority of RT, however it has a utility disadvantage, it not passive. This may be of course a personal preference but I prefer passive improvements to active ones unless the active ones are significantly better after flatting out the gains over time. Since 4 points are needed before RT is considerable help, I'd 1st go to Mark of Blood since it's 1 single point for 80% HP healing over a relatively short time. Its CD is long but it can be considered another 'soft o-shit' CD like Vampiric Blood. It won't save from a severe enrage but it's decent healing help. I'd prefer RT first but 4 points make it too expensive. I'd rather go to 4 threat points when it's merely a CD and not a passive improvement.

 

Ghost187

Ok im not sure if its just me and my comp. Ive searched as much as i can take but i cant seem to find the full layout for the 17/53/3 talents set up. When i click on the link in this fourm Frozen Blows -- Frost DPS (Updated 06.11.09) all i get is a link for 17/38/0 with 15 points left to spend. What im asking is there anyone that could help show me or have a like to set the last 15.

thanks in advance

 

Meygaera

I believe that thread was used for the 2H frost spec pre 3.2. Currently, dual wield frost is much better. That thread is probably outdated. If you still want to see the old spec it looked something like this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
The points in Lichborne and Improved Frost Presence are floater points you can put anywhere.

 

phi

I've another question that came up when playing my DK. (Btw thanks for the answers on my DRW damage question).

I found out that my DS heals me no matter if there is any disease on the target or not. Tooltip however says

Quote: "A deadly attack that deals 97 to 98% weapon damage plus 374 and heals the Death Knight for 5% of his maximum health for each of his diseases on the target."

Now what I found out that a DS without any diseases heals me for 7.5% of my hp (2.5% coming from the DS talent it seems). The crazy thing is, that it doesn't heal me all the time - and it doesnt seem to work on all mobs.

Here a combatlog copy paste:
(first line shows that there was no attacks (diseases) beforehand on the mob)

10:27:59> [Your] Blood Presence healed [You] 83 Physical.
10:28:37> [Your] Bloody Vengeance applied [You].
10:28:37> [Your] Melee hit [Dark Zealot] 3850 Physical. (Critical)
10:28:38> [Your] Blood Presence healed [You] 0 Physical. (154 Overhealed)
10:28:38> [Dark Zealot] Melee hit [You] 247 Physical.
10:28:38> [Your] Necrosis hit [Dark Zealot] 770 Shadow.
10:28:39> [Your] Bloody Vengeance stacked [You] 2.
10:28:39> [You] killed [Dark Zealot].
10:28:39> [Your] Death Strike hit [Dark Zealot] 5460 Physical. (1555 Overkill) (Critical)
10:28:39> [Your] Death Strike healed [You] 247 Physical. (1451 Overhealed)
10:28:39> [Your] Blood Presence healed [You] 0 Physical. (219 Overhealed)
10:28:39> [Your] Grim Toll applied [You].
10:28:39> [Your] Abominable Might applied [You].
10:28:39> [Your] Butchery energized [You] 20 (Runic Power).

So sometimes DS heals me for 7.5% of my hp eventhough there is no disease on the target.

Edit: I found out Death Strike heals me EVERYTIME Death Strike is the killing blow.

 

Blackteddy

Is baseline T9 2PC worth breaking up T8.5 4PC for?

 

Consider

For what spec?

Looking at your armory, you're Unholy. For Unholy, 4p t8 and 2p t9 have almost identical EP values (within 10 of each other, depending on the rest of your gear). As such, when you factor in the added stats, it's almost certainly an upgrade. So, yes, it is worth breaking 4p t8 for, but more for the increase in stats than anything else. The set bonuses (boni?) just cancel one another out.

That, and 4p t9 is a must have.

 

Denialz

Is it worth breaking up my 2 piece t7.5 bonus on my gloves/shoulders for the 2 piece T9 bonus in the same gear slots? 0/53/18

 

Sanctimony

Leveling DK Spec and Presence

DPSing while leveling is very different from DPSing while raiding. Your targets typically don't survive through a single set of runes (fights will last on the order of 5 seconds unless AOEing), so things that are important to sustained DPS become irrelevent. This, in addition to the fact that you typically have a chunk of downtime while you're finding the next mob to kill make burst damage king. As such, once you have unholy presence, you're almost always better off in it than blood presence, especially when you take into account Improved Unholy Presence. Napkin math time.

Autoattack damage is equal in both presences. Special abilities will hit for 13% less in UP, but you'll get to use up to 50% more of them due to the 1s GCD (if all your runes refreshed before you reached the next mob, 9 seconds out of combat.) In the worst case of constant combat, you'd get 10% more attacks off due to IUP. Ignoring sources of damage that are flat-out reduced in UP (diseases, D&D, and (somewhat) death coil) and assuming a linear relationship between time spent out of combat and abilities you can use in combat, for the two presences to reach parity you'd need to spend roughly 0.7s ooc between fights. In practice this time will be longer, but not by much: damage contribution from diseases is minimal, and you're more GCD constrained than RP constrained for death coil due to Butchery.

You want to level unholy spec, largely due to the movement speed bonuses of On a Pale Horse and IUP. Your spec shouldn't necessarily look anything like a raid spec; I used something like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. A couple of notable omissions from this spec: Epidemic, Unholy Blight, Bone Shield. Your targets will die too quickly for your diseases to wear off (or do much damage) or for UB to do its thing. Since you're constantly going to be hit, BS is going to have minimal uptime and mitigate minimal damage. Butchery provides a nice extra chunk of runic power, and Runic Power Mastery helps you avoid wasting runic power. Only notable glyph is Death Grip, which is by far the best major glyph for leveling.

It can also be handy to activate the dual-spec feature and to use a self-healing tank spec like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft for soloing group quests. General idea is to use all frost and unholy runes for death strike for self healing, and to use pestilence to refresh your diseases when necessary.

Please excuse my crimes against parentheses.