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Old 11/19/08, 8:58 PM   #201
Waterboard
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Khaz Modan
Does anyone know the value bloodworms provide for DPS? I'm trying to make the points to put 5 into bladed armor and i'm thinking 3 out of bloodworms, 2-3 out of SoD. opinions? Is bladed armor worth it? it seems to be nearly equal to Abom for ap gain.

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Old 11/19/08, 9:16 PM   #202
slant
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Drenden
D&D is a DPS increase when AEing, but the aggro can be a problem with adds. I've been asked not to D&D when DPSing 5mans.

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Old 11/19/08, 11:32 PM   #203
Deth
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
<FTM>
Staghelm
What is blood tap used for? I am trying to figure out when this ability would be useful. Only place I can see using it is in PvP when your rune cooldowns may go off track and you need to do a FU maneuver badly.

"Death is only the Ultimate Excuse"

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Old 11/19/08, 11:45 PM   #204
MichaelG
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Eonar
Yay! I just thought of another question.

This is more addon related than mechanic related. I can't seem to figure out how to configure Bartender 4 to swap bars for me when I swap from Blood to Frost Presence.

Any ideas on how to set that up?

It was relatively easily done in BT3 - but the configuration seems to have changed in the new version.

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Old 11/19/08, 11:55 PM   #205
Noraj
Don Flamenco
 
Noraj's Avatar
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post
Yay! I just thought of another question.

This is more addon related than mechanic related. I can't seem to figure out how to configure Bartender 4 to swap bars for me when I swap from Blood to Frost Presence.

Any ideas on how to set that up?

It was relatively easily done in BT3 - but the configuration seems to have changed in the new version.
In the options, choose the bar, go to State Configuration, and set a "Custom Condition" near the bottom. The trick is figuring out what macro condition checks for DK presences, since it obviously isn't FORM.

"The question is not how far we are going to take it... the question is, do you possess the constitution to go as far as needed?" - Il Duce

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Old 11/20/08, 12:09 AM   #206
Octaviann
Piston Honda
 
Octaviann's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Noraj View Post
In the options, choose the bar, go to State Configuration, and set a "Custom Condition" near the bottom. The trick is figuring out what macro condition checks for DK presences, since it obviously isn't FORM.
It's most likely "Stance" as that's the condition used for things like rogue stealth, druid forms, warrior stances, etc. The hard part is figuring out what each stance means, as they're referred to by simple numbers. Usually, the number for the stance corresponds to the number the button is from the left on the default interface's stance bar.

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Old 11/20/08, 12:26 AM   #207
Dev93L
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Shadowsong
Originally Posted by Janraea View Post
Does anyone know where there's a decent dps spreadsheet? I couldn't find anything but Deathgraf (which looks nice, but doesn't give me details, or appear to allow dual-wielding), and Hex (which doesn't work under linux). Hate to build one from the ground up again, it took forever last time..
Here is Tzenes';

tzenes Profile, tzenes Details - FileFront.com

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Old 11/20/08, 1:35 AM   #208
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
Pyros's Avatar
 
Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Deth View Post
What is blood tap used for? I am trying to figure out when this ability would be useful. Only place I can see using it is in PvP when your rune cooldowns may go off track and you need to do a FU maneuver badly.
At low level of gear, if you miss or get dodged(or parried if tanking), your deathrunes will turn back to their original state. For unholy and frost, that means blood runes go back to blood and can't be used for scourge strike or oblit/howling blast anymore, ruining your rotation even more. Depending on what runes were used and so on, you can sometimes blood tap to get back on track. Happened a few times tonight for me in naxx, so it's not totally worthless I guess. Also remotely useful while soloing, convert blood runes to death between mobs so you can unleash bigger burst. Works for pvp too. Not a very powerful spell, but can be useful nonetheless.

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Old 11/20/08, 2:47 AM   #209
bionh
Von Kaiser
 
bionh's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Tichondrius
Question:

Can someone help me work out the math on exactly what gear level Glyph of obliterate becomes beneficial?

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Old 11/20/08, 3:13 AM   #210
Quaunaut
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Feathermoon
What seems to be the proc rate or PPM on Fallen Crusader? If dual wielding, how likely would it be that you could keep the buff up nearly permanently?

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Old 11/20/08, 3:51 AM   #211
Prinsesa
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Echo Isles
Originally Posted by bionh View Post
Question:

Can someone help me work out the math on exactly what gear level Glyph of obliterate becomes beneficial?
Napkin math ahoy:

An unglyphed rank 4 Obliterate with 2 diseases active deals 100% weapon damage + 584.
An glyphed rank 4 Obliterate with 2 diseases active deals 120% weapon damage + 438.

This is a damage difference of 146.

It's quite difficult to come up with an exact number for when the 20% increased weapon damage is worth more than the 146 extra damage due to the dual interaction with both weapon damage and AP. I could say 3100 AP as a ballpark, but that's disregarding base weapon damage altogether.

Instead, let's say that "If your Character Sheet lists your average white hit as 730.00 or more, then using the Obliterate Glyph is a net damage increase."

As for the other breakpoints:

Rank 3: 596.25
Rank 2: 381.25
Rank 1: 310.00

EDIT: My level 59 Death Knight's average white hit is listed at 428, which means that I can use the Obliterate Glyph as soon as I learn Obliterate (assuming I wasn't Unholy), and I'm still in mostly all starting quest line gear.

My guildmate's level 76 DK's average white hit is listed at 786.5, which is already past the last rank's 730 breakpoint. I think it's safe to say that anyone DPSing with a two-hander will see a benefit from the Glyph, regardless of gear level. Only dual-wielders and tanks will have to double-check.

Last edited by Prinsesa : 11/20/08 at 3:58 AM.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

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Old 11/20/08, 7:35 AM   #212
Kigale
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Fenris
Are the rough breakdowns of damage distribution known at this stage? What % of total damage comes from white attacks, strikes, and spells? How does this change for each spec?

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Old 11/20/08, 8:03 AM   #213
Sylari
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Quick question here, as my own attempts at mathing it out seemed off. Is dual-wielding going to scale well enough to out-class 2 handers at a certain reasonable endgame point? Obviously not around the Naxx level, but I'm just wondering if it's reasonable enough to worry about 2 handers being eclipsed by dual-wield for PvE dps at a certain point. Also not referring to tanking here, because if what I remember is right, dual-wield will never be better for tanking... I think.

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Old 11/20/08, 9:19 AM   #214
Shalymar
Piston Honda
 
Test
Night Elf Warrior
 
No WoW Account (EU)
My friend and I are both leveling DK and we have a question about a few things.

Both of us are spec Unholy 17/0/54 - DPS

First I noticed most rotations go like this:
IT -> PS -> BS -> BS -> SS -> UB/DC

With IT and PS interchangeable, is there a reason why SS isn’t right after PS since it does more damage then BS? Right after we cast IT and PS, we have 1 FR and 1 UR left to cast whether we cast BS before or after. Something tells me there is a talent that makes it worthwhile to cast BS first but I don’t see it.

Next why do so many people take Unholy Blight (51 Unholy talent)? It is really that good? It seems lackluster after they removed the disease counters it added a few patches ago. I took it to try it out but it doesn’t seem to do a lot of damage.

Thanks for your help

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Old 11/20/08, 9:42 AM   #215
Vierbein
Glass Joe
 
Vierbein's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by ColdandTired View Post
I have also noticed this but I do not have ProcWatch data to support it. It is one of the reasons I switched from blood to other specs as I continue to level.
20% is a chance that this will proc. It doesn't mean that after 100 rolls you will have 20 success. If you would achieve such score this would be an anomaly. This will be true for large number of tests 100.000. Overal number of succes would probably be around 20.000.

I hope this will help you.

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Old 11/20/08, 9:48 AM   #216
 Giant
Road kill
 
Goblin Mage
 
<iO>
Twisting Nether (EU)
Random question to check my understanding of Rune Strike. Assuming expertise cap for a DPS DK attacking a mob from the rear, will rune strike ever be available?

Ability can only be used after an attack is dodged or parried, if we're behind the mob then we cannot be parried and because we're expertise capped we cannot be dodged?

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Old 11/20/08, 9:52 AM   #217
Afabar
Don Flamenco
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Chants Eternels (EU)
@Shalymar

First : Rotation are PS-> IT -> BS -> BS -> SS -> UB/DC
Because in an unholy spec, IT damage is increase by Rage of Rivendare Talent.

Second :
Why we use BS -> BS -> SS in that order ? It's because of the Reaping talent
That means that in our next rotation, we will use a SS instead of 2 BS and give us a better DPS.

Third :
Why Unholy Blight ? In AOE situation, it's a lot better than DC.
I don't have the math close to me, but on a Brutallus-like fight, UB have a better DPS/GCD than DC.

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Old 11/20/08, 10:07 AM   #218
Vierbein
Glass Joe
 
Vierbein's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Giant View Post
Random question to check my understanding of Rune Strike. Assuming expertise cap for a DPS DK attacking a mob from the rear, will rune strike ever be available?

Ability can only be used after an attack is dodged or parried, if we're behind the mob then we cannot be parried and because we're expertise capped we cannot be dodged?
Rune strike is available after YOU dodge or parry, not your atack is dodged. It means that if u attack from behind it wont proc at all.

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Old 11/20/08, 10:12 AM   #219
 Giant
Road kill
 
Goblin Mage
 
<iO>
Twisting Nether (EU)
Ambiguous tooltip wording is wonderful isn't it?

Originally Posted by Blizzard
Strike the target for 200% weapon damage plus [200 * AP * 10 / 10000]. Only usable after an attack is dodged or parried. Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried
Can be read either way. In any case it *should* never be usable for a DPS DK in a raid instance so worrying about its effect on RP generation when macroed into the other strikes is a bit of a red herring.

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Old 11/20/08, 10:32 AM   #220
pfooti
Von Kaiser
 
pfooti's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Wyrmrest Accord
Originally Posted by Deth View Post
What is blood tap used for? I am trying to figure out when this ability would be useful. Only place I can see using it is in PvP when your rune cooldowns may go off track and you need to do a FU maneuver badly.
It's handy in general when your rune cooldowns get messed up - you need an FU maneuver, you want a U because Bone Shield just came off of CD, etc. I don't use it all that often, and frankly, I usually remember in retrospect that I could have used it at that point, but sometimes I get the right confluence of events where I need it and remember to use it.

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Old 11/20/08, 11:19 AM   #221
Miracleknight
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Warrior
 
Shattered Hand
Blood Tap is also useful for quick AOE rotations to get in pestilence and two blood boils if you're killing a lot of smaller mobs. But it's certainly a very situational ability.

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Old 11/20/08, 11:36 AM   #222
Pyros
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Death Knight
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Giant View Post
Can be read either way. In any case it *should* never be usable for a DPS DK in a raid instance so worrying about its effect on RP generation when macroed into the other strikes is a bit of a red herring.
Actually happens on bosses summoning adds and stuff if you're AEing. Like Noth or Gothik, often procs randomly in there. Other than that though, yeah doesn't really happen.

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Old 11/20/08, 1:35 PM   #223
Keline
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mazrigos (EU)
How is the Death Coil damage calculation working? It says 208 damage on the tooltip and I'm easily coiling for 600+

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Old 11/20/08, 2:32 PM   #224
LockApologist
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Mug'thol
Has there been any word on whether Rune strike procs 'on auto attack' events, such as BCB, Necrosis, Killing Machine, etc? My DK is not high enough to have Rune strike yet.

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Old 11/20/08, 2:44 PM   #225
Xelopheris
Piston Honda
 
Xelopheris's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by LockApologist View Post
Has there been any word on whether Rune strike procs 'on auto attack' events, such as BCB, Necrosis, Killing Machine, etc? My DK is not high enough to have Rune strike yet.
A lot of information to give out here for one post...

Rune Strike only triggers on INCOMING attacks. Luckily, when soloing, DK's strength gives them a hefty amount of parry, so we can proc it a lot that way. It does not proc on outgoing attacks.

Necrosis - Damages, never seen it dodge or parry, not sure about miss.

BCB - Procs can get parried/dodged/miss. It's like an extra attack (think sword-spec)

Killing Machine - This is a chance on hit to gain a buff -- has nothing to do with outgoing attacks and procs.

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